Nobles' Club 298: Pericles of Greece

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Pericles of Greece, whom we last played in NC 240; we last played the Greek under Alexander in NC 222. The Greeks start with Fishing and Hunting.

• Traits: Pericles is Creative and Philosophical. Creative gives every city +2 for free, and gives a +100% bonus to Libraries, Theatres, and Colosseums. Philosophical gives all cities +100% generation and a +100% bonus to Universities.
  
• The UB: The Odeon, a Colosseum with +1 , +3, +2 Artist specialist slots and and additional +1 with Hit Singles on top of what a regular Colosseum gives. If you ever need to solidify your control of a border city, both in terms of happiness and culture, this is the building you want.
  
• The UU: The Phalanx, an Axeman with +100% defence vs. Chariots. Generally considered a waste of a UU, since the Greek start with Hunting and thus will be able to build Spears in any situation they can build Phalanxes. Still, if you're rushing someone that doesn't have Horseback Riding you might be able to get away with taking an extra Phalanx along rather than a Spear stack defender. Just be sure to use espionage to make sure your target doesn't get HBR halfway through your rush, otherwise you might end up regretting that decision .

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Fractal, Temperate climate, Medium sealevel.

Spoiler edits :

Strategic resource swaps and an unworkable fish made workable, the usual.

Spoiler isolated? :

Semi-iso.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 298 Pericles Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler what is demigod :

The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

I'm really not sure what the best move is in this situation. It's tempting to move further inland to grab more land, fogbust more barbs with (CRE) cap culture, settle on a defensive if not plains hill, etc., but I really don't know if that's a good idea. That's two turns of research gone, who knows what is in the fog, seafood is nice to have when you start with fishing...I'd probably just SIP in this situation, even if it's not optimal I'm sure a capital like that is at least "good enough" But in terms of optimal moves I'm not sure.

Any experts wish to weigh in ?

 

[Nick723]

Ooh Pericles! I just got back from a trip to Athens, so very tempting!

This is a worthy addition to the Coastal Starts thread. Even assuming SIP, I have no idea what the best way to play this start is! All options seem underwhelming, but not clear which is the least worst!

Can someone illuminate on the right way forward?

 

[Pangaea]

Can someone illuminate on the right way forward?

A long bath in the lake. Barbs can't touch you there. Bring beer.

 

[elmurcis]

On Mara it would be 2x WB while aiming for BW right away. On Normal - no idea, haven't touched that speed for years. Will leave it to experts.

 

[Fippy]

Difficult to discuss SIP without seeing that hill tile.

 

[pi-r8]

question for anyone suggesting moving- what are you hoping to find that would be better than SIP? we start with fishing, and there's a lot of forests there, and probably a resource to NE. Looks like it's mostly plains to the south, and maybe a tundra to SW. If you move down and find.... what? another wheat? a sheep? is that really better than what we already have?

 

[chinemol]

gonna try inmortal, probably settle NE since sip and going inland kills a forest. also going west with a 2nd city looks likely. hope not to get boxed in because of the coastal settling. in any case, 2 food sources + philo = smooth time

 

[Fippy]

I wouldn't recommend NE @chinemol
Rather high chance you lose a good copper, iron or horse tile.
(on plains no biggie with an extra city but on green they are valuable)

 

[chinemol]

Spoiler :

should have waited for your response before starting! despite that, not doing bad, but I think i am going the wrong path (lib->nationalism-->cuirs)

 

[sampsa]

I think starts like these can be very tough on deity, but on lower difficulties just SIP, set up your empire and go for math bulb -> construction (or HBR) if you are blocked in. Long term it's a decent capital, especially with PHI.

 

[konata_LS]

This start reminds me of NC276 (Fred). Both PHI leaders, high low start. .

One of the biggest advantages of playing as Peri is it's impossible to start next to Alex .

Agree about that suspicious tile 1NE of the settler. Moving away from the starting place might miss a strategic resource and a nice tile in the capital: grassland Copper, Iron or Horse are all nice tiles to work.

Spoiler Plays 6 turns :

For people who play at Monarch level and above, it's important to check T0 demo screen.

T6 contact will confirm T0 demo screen info: Mansa Musa in the game and is our neighbour.

I think this time we've got one of the best neighbours under semi-isolation. Mansa is the only AI who will trade everything to the human player, as long as the human player can afford it. He can plot at Pleased, but he's a famous push-over and built very few units. As far as I've noticed, AI Mansa often researches religious techs and neglects military. Mansa is much less dangerous than Boudica or Nappy.
Besides, when I met Mansa, he was already Pleased. I guess it's due to the hidden modifier from "your small civilization is no threat to us". IIRC, Mansa's bonus from "your small civilization is no threat" is very high, up to +4 .


Judging from the starting position, the situation looks tough. But after a few turns, you'll soon find some nice flood plains, double gold mine and a wet wheat. It's certainly an interesting map: nice neighbour, nice land, PHI for more GScientists to get Astro.

Unfortunately I won't have time to play this one. The semi-isolation is too challenging for someone who is not used to a new difficulty. Plus, Peri's traits make him the best techer among non-FIN leaders, but the Greek starting techs are quite poor. I've just started playing at Emperor and I'm not very comfortable with this level, so I'd prefer to play as FIN leaders at the moment. Currently I'm playing NC294 (WK, FIN + PRO) and will post my NC294 write-up today or tomorrow. From now I'll just watch - it'll be interesting to see how people play this Peri map.

 

[pi-r8]

Turn 100, demigod, some good some bad

Spoiler :

opened with a work boat while teching mining->BW
settled straight down, to claim land and floodplains
unfortunately lost a lot of fights to barbs, which hindered my development a lot
Saw a lot of water so I went for the great lighthouse and got it, but that also slowed me down
I got a Great Merchant from the lighthouse, and used it to bulb metal casting. I was hoping to get the colossus but someone else built it as soon as I finished the forge (600 BC)
was hoping for pyramids, but I waited to start until my borders popped to the stone, and someone else got it.
Mansa Musa settled a spot I wanted, then put culture there, so I don't think I can culture flip it now
He's willing to math, alpha, iron working, code of laws. I have metal casting and (soon) math. trade for code of laws I guess?
thinking of trying to live in peace with Mansa (sharing his religion), and going for a slower game. Trade techs with him, try to win lib and build Oxford, then go for astronomy and attack the other continent with rifles/cannons I guess?
Will probably move my capital down to Sparta and make Oxford there, with bureaucracy

 

[soundjata]

Turn 100, demigod, some good some bad

Spoiler :

This is good looking.
I would invest all workers on an attempt at the Hanging Gardens if they are still available.
Plunk one city or two before that.
Profit !

 

[konata_LS]

@pi-r8

Spoiler :

Your situation looks good

With GLH, settling that cow + crab spot (3W of Athens, you already marked "s") would be one of the priorities. That city can share the wheat from the capital and run some scientists. PHI's cheap universities and stone for half-priced Oxford are also tempting.

And you settled Corinth on gold... like @ sampsa

 

[pi-r8]

@pi-r8

Spoiler :

Your situation looks good

With GLH, settling that cow + crab spot (3W of Athens, you already marked "s") would be one of the priorities. That city can share the wheat from the capital and run some scientists. PHI's cheap universities and stone for half-priced Oxford are also tempting.

And you settled Corinth on gold... like @ sampsa

Spoiler :

Thanks! Looking at it now I guess it's better than I thought, just frustrating when you miss out on wonders/city spots.
And yeah, from now i'll settle all the coastal spots to take advantage of great lighthouse and coastal scientists
I did settle on gold. I mean, there's two desert gold hills, didn't think I'd have enough food to be worth working them both.

 

[Quoth the Raven]

I would like to try a game. How do you post spoilers?

 

[soundjata]

@Quoth the Raven : click here

 

[Pengu]

Just never know if worker 1st or wb 1st is the best route....

 

[hankinsohl]

Emperor, normal speed, domination victory 1902

Spoiler :

Early on it was apparent that I was on an island with Mansa Munsa. I quickly established cities close to his border to claim land and ended with about 9 cities on the island. I remained at peace with MM and adopted his religion (Judaism) to facilitate trades.

With the island setting it made sense to grab the water wonders: GLH and Colossus were built. All of my cities were on the coast except for one that took the flood plains and 2 gold hills. I later made this my capital. I also built the pyramids and switched into Representation/Caste System to run a lot of specialists. My tech rate was extremely rapid using this approach.

I beelined optics to meet the remaining AI.

At this point I made a mistake and remained in Judaism because the other AI could not reach me. Unfortunately, every AI on the main continent were all in Hinduism. When I was ready to attack, invariably one or more of the other AI would join in against me. Because of this I restarted the game at the point where I first met the other AI and this time I dropped out of Judaism. MM became neutral but I was able to get all the other AI to pleased with various trades.

I built a large attack force consisting of grenadiers and cannons and declared on Sitting Bull. Sitting Bull had quite a few units but I was outproducing him having switched into Police State/Nationhood at this point. After roughly 10 turns Sitting Bull capitulated.

I was behind the other AI at this point: when I attacked Washington he had artillery versus my cannon. But I had more units than he had and I was producing even more. I capped each AI on the main continent one by one, having switched into Hinduism myself to keep the other AI pleased.

I was preparing to attack puny India when I won a domination victory.

This was a fun map for me - I'm not used to island maps and play much better in Pangea games where all opponents are reachable on land.