Nobles' Club 300: Saladin of Arabia

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Saladin of Arabia, whom we last played in NC 252. The Arabians start with Mysticism and The Wheel.

• Traits: Saladin is Protective and Spiritual. Protective gives all Archery and Gunpowder units a free City Garrison I (+20% City Defence) and Drill I (+1 First Strike chance) promotion, as well as a +100% bonus to Walls and Castles. Spiritual allows you to swap state religion/civics without suffering Anarchy, and gives a +100% bonus to all Temples.
  
• The UB: Madrassa, a Library with double the culture output and 2 Priest slots. Not a bad building for when it becomes available, as the extra culture can swing an early cultural battle in your favor, and being able to run priests means that whenever you need to generate "any" Great Person to start a Golden Age you have the option of running more specialists before Code of Laws, or without quickly swapping out Slavery for Caste System.
  
• The UU: The Camel Archer, a resourceless Knight with +15% withdraw chance, although they require Archery tech to build. Knights are usually completely ignored by players as Cuirs are only a little further in the tech tree and much better as a breakout unit because they can ignore Walls and Castles. That said Camel Archer do guarantee that you have a Mounted unit you can build in preparation for upgrading an army into cuirs even if you lack the Horses and Iron that cuirs normally need, and when you have to trade for either of those resources it's definitely ideal to have an army ready to upgrade.

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Fractal, Arid climate, medium sealevel.

Spoiler edits :

A few resource swaps to give AIs nearby strategic resources.

Spoiler isolated? :

Not isolated.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 300 Saladin Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler what is demigod :

The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

Well, we're not hurting for PH settling options at least. The PH Wine is the most tempting (222 city tile), but does that mean we should send the Warrior 1SW to scout it out (to the limited extent that that's possible on T0), or send it 1NE to check the only other potential settling spot that can be scouted T0? I'm leaning towards sending the warrior 1NE since that gives more information, and unless something worth settling 2E1S is found settle 1W? I'm not sure exactly what would even even qualify as "worth settling", though given the state of this start probably something involving lots of food and/or flood plains. Because yikes. Plains Cow as Saladin, not ideal...

What do the experts think ?

 

[sampsa]

I'm leaning towards sending the warrior 1NE since that gives more information, and unless something worth settling 2E1S is found settle 1W?

Seems like the most sensible option!

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

First time in a while I’ve got time for an NC game and you give us Saladin with a plains cow

 

[Araius]

Considering all the hills I hope it's a rocky map so the AI can struggle to get going.
If it's not, well it's quite the unfortunate looking start.

Will try this map on Immortal. Might need some tips around warfare. I can generally out beaker the AI, but I tend to find they successfully rush me or I do an invasion way too late and take only one or two cities.

 

[konata_LS]

NC celebrates its 300th birthday Glad to see NC is still quite active through so many years and keeps helping new players improve their game

This "OCC" (one cow challenge) starts looks a little poor, especially for a civ who has no Hunt no Agri

But, maybe there are some Easter eggs hidden in the fog...? If yes, I have to find those Easter eggs.

Spoiler Easter eggs :

Currently busy with real life. Will try this map in two or three days, because I think "Saladin plain cow start" would be a suitable and challenging "final exam" for me at Monarch level.

 

[Araius]

Spoiler Played to Turn 99 - 400BC :

Got attacked by Ragnar after he plotted for like two turns. Initially fended him off with chariots, but he really started to bring in the pain after a few turns.
I guess Archery is a pretty good tech to get, huh. I could've also built a city to get the copper, but oh well.

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

Deity T57

Spoiler :

Moved warrior 1NE and saw gold and flood plains. Settled on the PH 1SE of cow and went agriculture because I saw the wheat and also wanted to be able to farm flood plains in a low food capital. Then went AH, mining, BW, fishing, pottery, writing.

Got three cities and a settler waiting to settle for the fish. Will settle once I have built a road and I'm ready to chop the boat. Also, just one pop whipped a settler in Mecca because I can see WK is coming and I want to block him off. All other settlers were built at size three with chops. In terms of the two cities settled after my capital, the second went on the PH to get the wheat and share the cow and horse with the capital. The banana settle is debateable but I wanted to stop Ragnar settling for the banana and the spices and then immediately plotting on me because of border tension. Next settler will be a gift for him.

Long term the plan is to hopefully get the marble with the fish city and lib MT.

 

[Araius]

Tried the map again and won Diplomatic on turn 277

 

[yyeah]

"offline" for some time but i need to play NC300 , deity ... , super hard mode . How we wanna do it ... and do we have a stuff .
I go and settle that wine with this one, nice start and Spi my best trait .

Edit : T0

Spoiler :

deity 800BC

Spoiler :

4 cities

tech race


All about will i bit Rango , he dont wana trade ... hes ploting allrdy , best option is go for Wang but Rango will backstab me anyway so... no choice

yyy

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

Deity T107

Spoiler :

Went aesethetics, literature and music. Lost the music great artist to the one AI I've not met. Expanded to seven cities, including sniping a nice barb city with a chariot. Still one decent spot left that I can settle shortly.

In less good news, Gilgamesh walked across the map to declare on me. I couldn't get him to pleased when he started plotting and, once I managed to, I thought it was best to just let him attack me before he brought catapults. It's been pretty ineffective so far and protective has had an opportunity to add something given that I don't have metal. He still won't talk but hopefully in a few turns he'll see some sense.

Ragnar is also plotting. I gifted him a city so he was pleased when he started plotting. I begged because he looked like he was stacking anyway. He's been wandering around my territory and I think he's now heading for Wang. If not, it's game over. Wang is also annoyed with me. Not much I can do as everybody hates him so gifting him anything is likely to make things worse. Hopefully Ragnar will attack him and solve two of my diplo problems. Also, I have no religions so there's not much I can do diplo wise and spirtual isn't doing much for me yet.

 

[yyeah]

Deity 1AD

Spoiler :

Rango DoW on Wang and i did this same . My HA rush is going preety good. Plan is to finish Wang in couple of turns, maybe i will leave him 1 city since i need tech from him, dono yet ... he will capitulate and i will have problem... however so many techs.
And this AP ...
And Sumeria is ploting probably me he refused to give me Pottery .

Land




Tech race
I start with Agc -> Mining -> Hunting -> AH -> Writing -> HBR

75AD

Spoiler :

War is over , 12 cities now i can compete with others. Wang bulid GLH for me so, i dont have to worry about Eco for now. Long term i go for Communism since land, is not so great. Cottage eco wont work here, not too much res. for corps, so yeah Biology and Communism should work

I decided to take A LOT from Wang




Now MT and Rango

And have a quiestion for You. Is it worth to move my Capitol to Seoul ?
Iam 50-50 .
No cottages meens i need to grow my cities for and Seoul can generate a lot more i think.
Mecca is good spot tho.

@Mr_Trotsky

Spoiler :

I dont have a fun with Spi either

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

@yyeah

Spoiler :

I played on to 1AD. I traded music for calendar, metallurgy and horseback with Rags, Louis and HC and peace with Giggles. Bulbes philosophy and now I’ve got Taoism in half my cities because of autospread but still missing a useful religion - urgh.

Ragnar was going for WK and bribed in HC and Louis. I feel I have to backstab but horse archers and catapults - if I tech - construction doesn’t seem great. I have no metal. Perhaps worth attacking Wang just to secure that.

I’m up to eight cities.

You’ve definitely been rewarded for being more proactive than me.

 

[yyeah]

@Mr_Trotsky

Spoiler :

1AD HA's dosnt look tempting , one can try roam with that to try steal like metal for example.But now is too late he will have prot. LB's . Maybe if you can rush Guilds and go with Rango be4 WK hits Engi . No i probably would think just how to take Iron from Wang when RangoDoW on him and go for MT in your position.

 

[konata_LS]

Monarch NHNE
From 4000BC to 1540AD

Spoiler :

Settings as below, no huts:


Settled on PH wine. On T50, reloaded from T0 and replayed for a very embarrassing reason: I forgot to turn on resource bubble, so I didn't notice the light brown 21 tile at 2S of the PH wine was actually a dry Wheat . I only realised that tile was Wheat around T48 or T49 . That really slowed down my early development. So I replayed from T0, tech Agri-AH, and sent the worker to improve the Wheat .

The land nearby was a little tricky. The flood plains on the east and the marble on the west both called for Aesthetics and peace; but Ragnar's borders down south shouted "prepare for war".

3 cities HA rush in 600BC.


Pillaged Ragnar's only Copper immediately after DoW:


Ragnar disappeared in 375BC. Captured 5 cities but had to raze the last one, because that city's Calendar resources were all covered under jungle. I would resettle that spot after Calendar and IW, ideally after Currency.

As people noticed in the screenshots above, I adopted Slavery quite late, because my early 3 cities were all high low . And my only early - was a Gold mine; no AI spread religions to me for a long time. Such situation was not very good for whipping; chopping was often better with so many forests and brown tiles. So I adopted Slavery when I started to settle some high low spots, for example the flood plains and Fish spot on the far east of my capital.

Gifted a city to Giggle. WK was initially the WE of every AI. But after WK got Monarchy, he ceased to be the WE of others, because Louis, Capac, and Giggle all loved HR. After the Medieval era, Capac became even Pleased towards WK for shared religion + HR.

After the HA rush, my economy couldn't afford Aesthetics because I urgently needed Currency. So I gave up GLib and went for Currency-CoL. Plus, both Louis and Capac already got Aesthetics before me. Ragnar's land had Stone, and my land had Marble. The failgolds from Mids, Chichen Itza and Parthenon helped a lot for the post HA rush recovery.

Lucky discovery of silver in 1180AD:


Decided to go for Cannons, because I had very bad memories of Giggle's PRO muskets in NC 294. The whole tech pace was quite fast. Capac and Louis were wonder-spamming. Louis built AP, so I built some Jewish temples for +1 and +2. SPI temples were cheap, anyway. Got Ivory trade from Capac, though a little expensive (he asked 3 resources for his Ivory ).

Lib Chemistry. Pre-built trebs, generated a GMerchant and upgraded trebs to Cannons. Attack with Cannons. Giggle capitulated after losing all his stack and 3 cities.


WK also capitulated quickly:


Only lost several Cannons. It seems the attack with Cannons usually suffers very few loss compared to Cuirs attacks. OTOH, Cannons were slower than Cuirs. Lost 9 HAs in the early HA rush, because Ragnar spammed Archers in all of his cities, even I cut his Copper .


Tech situation in 1540AD. Monty and Capac were often two extremes: Monty was one era behind while Capac might become out of control .

 

[konata_LS]

From 1540AD to 1818AD

Spoiler :

Settings:


Sent Cannons and some Cuirs to attack Louis. It seemed Louis was very busy building wonders


Louis capitulated in 1725AD. He offered Democracy but I took Corporation.


Capac was a problem. He had Steel soon after I got it. So I needed some Cavs to fight against Capac's Cannons. Self-tech Rifling and got MT from my vassals. DoW Capac with Rifles, Cannons, and Cavs.

The tech situation when I fought against Capac: Capac grabbed all the free GPeople from Physics to Communism, but he had no Grens, no Rifles. Typical Capac tech path.


SoL captured. Immediately adopted Rep .


Upgraded CR3 maces to Rifles:


WK was the best among my vassals in this game. He sent a large stack across the map and even captured one city from Louis, one city from Capac


Capac disappeared on T278


Next turn domination:


In this game I did something I rarely do: since I got early Engineering and had stone, I built many castles for the +1 traderoutes. I usually don't do that when I go for Cuirs. But in this game, I wouldn't have time for Economics for a long time (with a weak leader who has no economical traits, I'd prefer to concentrate my limited into RP, Rifles, or something more important than free market); only 2 or 3 turns for +1 traderoutes was still worth it.


None of AIs got Rifles. Only Louis got a decent stack of Cuirs and French UUs. Luckily the best techer in this map went after non military techs, liked spamming wonders instead of spamming units.


Due to his weak starting techs and weak traits, Saladin is not the best choice for people who want to challenge a new difficulty level. The surrounding land is not rich neither - impossible to find some legendary spots such as "double corns + triple gems" near the capital. The human player is close to a famous unit-spammer (Ragnar) and a dangerous backstabber (Giggle). But both the map and the leader are a suitable "final exam" for people who want to end a level: if a player can win this map without reloading, without others' help, it may be a sign that he/she is ready for the next level.

Thanks for this "final exam" . The game was won but with one reloading . Maybe I need more practice at Monarch level with weak leaders. Currently I fluctuate between Monarch and Emperor: if playing as a strong leader or a civ who has powerful early UUs, I can play at Emperor; but with weak leaders, poor land and some troublesome neighbours (Genghis, Alex, Ragnar...), I have to go back to Monarch. I'll definitely move to Emperor level if I can win Toku, Charlie, and Saladin in a random generated map at Monarch.

 

[yyeah]

Deity 1000AD.

Spoiler :

300AD Gilgamesh finally show up with he's stack . Wang capitaulated to him as expected, so i took him out of the map.
Sumeria wasnt a problem couple of turns later Rango DoW on him and in same turn AP vote bribe us off the war.


1000AD my land 14 cities not bad, but this land is crap , even GLH didnt help too much with .




Just stabilized, all cites have courthouses and AP stuff, wierd i have back after i defy stop the war votes 2 times.
I have made 1 GA and 1 GM it helps a lot, some failed from Heroic and National Epic and ive reached Education.
Probaably i will change my plan and go with Cannons vs Rango seems like everybody are close to rifling alldy so MT isnt too temting.
And Cannons meens iam closer to Biology and Communism.


France is a monster look at hes land .


And this...


However maybe he goes Free Religion and fun will start on this planet, he has Lib and still didnt switch to hes fav civic ... dude when. Maybe becouse he have AP ?

Edit: Oh he has Free Religion HR is hes Fav civic. I smoke too much


In general... NC300 anniversary and everybody are friendly so sweet .
I can do what i like to do the most in this game .

@G-Major 180 that's a big game if someone is interested to join in...

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

350AD

Spoiler :

Traded music for calendar, metallurgy and HBR with HC, Rags and Louis as I needed to give it to Gilgamesh for peace and as the HR crowd all love each other there was no point holding on to it.

Teched CoL and CS myself and got 1AD civil service even with the music detour. Bulbed philosophy and teched construction before nationalism.

Ragnar declared on WK. He bribed in Louis and HC. Then some turns later Giggles declared. I think it’s a holy war. I don’t know because I still don’t have the AP religion (Judaism) - grrr. This is a real problem as Ragnar, Gilgamesh, Louis and HC are all in Judaism and HR. They love each other while I can’t get them to friendly in a good way.

I traded for ivory with HC and attacked Wang. I took Pusan, which should hopefully resolve my lack of metal issue once I can get some culture in it. I also sniped Pyongyang which was defended by one axe! I guess Ragnar’s army has messed WK up. Just agreed a ceasefire with Wang and pondering next move.

It would be good to keep chipping away at him but I worry he’ll cap to someone soon and I also want to start growing my cities for my Taj golden age. Still thinking cuirs with target determined based on diplo at the time.

At least I'm getting a bit out of spiritual now. I have my own religion which I can switch in and out of depending on the diplo situation.

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

@yyeah

Spoiler :

When I loaded it up again I got the HC will trade ivory notification so it was pretty clear what to do. I have my iron now

 

[hankinsohl]

Immortal, normal speed to 275 BC

Spoiler :

Tough start. Little food, and surrounded mostly by plains due to the arid climate map setting.

This is my first game on Immortal difficulty - and this map looks challenging. We'll see how it goes .

I decided to settle on the plains hill wine for extra starting gold and hammers: worker first while researching Agriculture, Mining, and Bronze Working; after finding that no nearby copper is available I researched Hunting and Archery for defense. Early on I met Ragnar to the South and Wang Kon to the Northeast. Later on, scouts from Gilgamesh and then Louis XIV appeared in the South.

Diplomacy is difficult. Everyone's worst enemy is Wang Kon; meanwhile, Wang detests Ragnar. I decide to open borders with everyone except Wang and will not trade with Wang and Ragnar.

Ragnar expands rapidly towards me but I manage to grab two cities with fish and a questionable hill city to cut him off. I also settle a city to the North, next to the wheat. Later I plan a helper city to work cottages and share tiles.

After researching Fishing and Animal Husbandry, I researched Aesthetics, and after putting a few turns into Alphabet, traded Aesthetics for a bunch of filler tech. It seems that my land lacks both Copper and Iron.

Ragnar enters WHEOOH mode and I can't tell if he's after me or someone else; his stack soon appears on my southern border so it's either me or Wang that he's after.

I produce a bunch of archers in case I'm the target. Frustratingly Ragnar just keeps shifting his stack back and forth just South of me. I road the area between my border cities and place my archers in between so that I can reach either city before he attacks.

I was planning on building The Great Library - but my land is so poor that I may be better off going to war early. I'll probably switch research towards Horseback Riding. If Ragnar attacks Wang, I can join in and with luck scoop up some better land.