Nobles' Club 305: Elizabeth of England

BornInCantaloup

Agent of Chaos
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Feb 9, 2010
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Cantaloupe Island
So, this was fun ! T71 Alphabet :
Spoiler :
Spoiler :


A little late to the party, I'm going to miss on trade value :badcomp:
How I got there :
Spoiler :


Mansa Musa, I declare you're my best friend :bowdown:

Lessons learned :
- You don't need research if such a gentleman is your neighbour ;
- :hmm:... :please:...:dunno:...:yumyum:.

Lay of the land :
Spoiler :


I'm not too sure on Banana city but that locasion could do.
I will be closing on 8 cities by 1000 BC but I only have 5 workers at the moment, so, I'm a little underdevelopped. 4 Granaries and 1 Library.


T50 opening :
Spoiler :


Both London and York have their Granary. The worker in York will be complete in 3 turns.
This is : Agriculture, Bronze, Pottery, Hunting, AH.
I put some turns in the first settler at size 2, so that London could grow 2->3 in 2 turns, then I completed the settler at size 3 and immediately started another.
York borrowed the corn. Grew to 2 and whipped the 2nd worker.
--> Both cities whip their Granary ;
--> Resume expansion (the settler in London has just been whipped 2 pop).
 

krikav

Theorycrafter
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
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Nice @BornInCantaloup, sort of similar opening to mine... sort of. :D

@CarpoolKaraoke Thats a quite amazing setup you got there! I got a T109 situation that I'm going to post too...
You must have been very lucky with trades I supose?
 

BornInCantaloup

Agent of Chaos
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
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Location
Cantaloupe Island
Spoiler Reflection on my games state :

If I gift a city to Bismarck on SB's boarder. Maybe i can get him to friendly. Thats +5 right?

Worst case I keep him at pleased and give him some boarder issues with SB.

I don't think that would work.
Spoiler :
I don't know the values/thresholds but :
The more cities an AI has, the less it will value a gift city. Bismark has 9 cities.
You can test it but I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't get any bonus for Fair Trade with that move.
 

krikav

Theorycrafter
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
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Oh... I was at T107, not T109, but it's almost the same.

Spoiler T101 :


Coastal fish, auto-connected second city... I thought it was obvious to go agri->BW.
Worker finished both farms, then made a chop into a settler which together with one more turn into the settler got it to 46/100 so I did a 2pop whip.
Overflow went into a second worker, which was finished with a chop.
One of those workers then chopped out a workboat for city#2.
Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG


T68 WIlly declared on sitting bull... Well.. Good luck Willy, you will need it! :D

Mansa was super nice and provided me with much needed happines!
Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG


T80 I got alpha for HBR with Mansa with some beakers into alpha, I also got IW from Justy for HBR and August got HBR for free to get him to pleased. I don't want prets storming in and ruining my developing economy...
Got math for Alpha 3 turns later.

I went Compass to get CoL from Mansa, but the crazy bastard went compass himself... DIdn't get much fun out of that one.. Monarchy and Calendar later but had to self tech CoL.
Civ4ScreenShot0018.JPG


Philo bulb.
Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG






Spoiler T107 Situation :


Haven't really planned this that great, should probably have went in much heavier on scientists to bulb more faster, but was focused alot on developing and maturing cottages...
Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG


Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

Have alot of stables and will just spamm HAs now, Bismarck built ToAr so I should get some merchants and buy cuirs.
7 Workers felt like it was way to few, but I resisted the urge to whip out more, and now things seem to stabilize.
Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

Canterbury was settled mainly for the gold, and that mine was improved first.
I think it was just when I settled that city that Mansa came along with fur+wine.
Coventry was almost stolen by Bismark, and the sugar around Warwick was improved by August before the monument took it back.

Justinian have been extremly lazy about spreading Buddhism... :(
Gotten a monestery in Hastings and will whip missionaries into a palace (30/160 hammers right now)
Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG




 

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CarpoolKaraoke

Warlord
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
174
Nice @BornInCantaloup, sort of similar opening to mine... sort of. :D

@CarpoolKaraoke Thats a quite amazing setup you got there! I got a T109 situation that I'm going to post too...
You must have been very lucky with trades I supose?


Spoiler Trades: :


Fairly standard trades, I have:

Aesthetics --> Alphabet, Iron Working
Aesthetics/Alphabet --> Mathematics, part of Monarchy
Code of Laws --> Currency/Calendar

Key Research Times:
1120 BC - Aesthetics
1080 BC - Albert Einstein born in Nottingham --> Academy
650 BC - Ptolemy born in Nottingham --> Golden Age
600 BC - Code of Laws
475 BC - Civil Service
325 BC - John Dalton born in Nottingham --> Education bulb
250 BC - Education
175 BC - Philosophy


 
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soundjata

Be like water
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
2,038
^ interesting early golden age :clap:
I seldom do that before CS & Pacifism.

Might explain your reasoning?
Accelerate research for 8 turns mostly?
 

Implo

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 21, 2021
Messages
47
@BornInCantaloup
Spoiler :
Aha, so number of cities is a influensing factor. I did not know that. Yeah, I think i only secured the +4 trade relations. Still 2-3 points away from friendly
 

Implo

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 21, 2021
Messages
47
@Henrik75
Spoiler Comment :
strong stuff! Going to be intresting to watch the video. Suprising that neither mansa or william was so far behind in tech
 

AcaMetis

Emperor
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
1,525
Spoiler :
And now for a demonstration as to why the (as of yet not invented) banking establishments are, indirectly, more dangerous than standing armies :mischief:.
 

krikav

Theorycrafter
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
5,270
Location
Sweden
Spoiler Money well spent... T182 :


The western folks looked like they would be weak forever, so I left them alone.
Went for Justinian first because he just reached guilds and did not have elephants. I could also get his iron the first few turns of the war.
Mansa after that because he was close and easy.
Then August, and he was a hard nut to crack, would never capitulate and he also bribed in Bismark against me. :(

Peaced out with Bis and wanted to roll over the other two jokers, but Bis never wanted to OB so I just had to attack him even though he had rifling.
Had 4 cannons with GGenerals attached toward the end, nice to bombard with and make cities abit less harsh.
Civ4ScreenShot0049.JPG

 

sylvanllewelyn

Perma-newb
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,571
@Harv
I have not read the spoilers but I think you and I feel the same way - - Elizabeth is strong but too difficult. No UU, no UB, no production bonuses. You go ahead, I'm too scared to join.
 

konata_LS

Prince
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
360
Finally got some spare time for this. :rockon:

Emp from T0 to T181 :wallbash:
Spoiler :

Settings as below, no huts


T0 demo shows Mansa in the game :trouble:


Settled on the plain hill. Surprisingly got a pig in the capital's BFC. With three strong :food: resources, peacefully expanded to 11 cities by whipping like crazy. Justy founded Buddhism, Mansa Hindu. Both AC, SB, and Justy were Buddhists, so I converted to Buddhism immediately after Justy spread this religion to me. But Biz founded Confu. Gifted a city to Biz to keep him at Pleased.

Since it's Emperor level, it's better to self-tech Alphabet. After Alphabet, backfill some small techs and got Monarchy through trade. 11 cities with Iron and Horse called for Cuirs attacks. Given that there was no Marble in my land, initially I planned to go straight to CS. But in 200AD no one had Aesthetics, so I made a detour to Music and grabbed the free GArtist. After all, Music was required for MT. :lol:

The tech situation in 200AD was a little strange: I doubted if Biz swapped his personality with Huayna Capac :hmm:.

Stayed at peace before Renaissance. In 1020AD, a dire news: 9 cities Justy peace vassal to AC :eek2: :cry: :wallbash:


AC had 14 cities. With his vassal Justy, AC became a monster opponent :sad:.


I was hesitating about attacking Biz or AC first. But after this peaceful vassal, I didn't think 20 Cuirs could conquer a 23 cities enemy. Now I had to attack Biz first, as Biz only had 7 cities. :wallbash:

Lib MT on T161.


T161 lib was not a good lib date. But this is Emperor difficulty. The screenshot below was the tech situation when I got Lib. With Emperor AIs, what else could I do :please:


Mansa got the free GMerchant of Economics. His :gold: became my :gold: :cool:


Pre-built WEs and upgraded them to Cuirs. Attack with Cuirs. Biz capitulated on T181:


Mystery solved: many shiny wonders in Berlin explained why Biz was acting like Biz Capac :twitch:. Also captured GLibrary in another German city:


Still had 20+ Cuirs, but most of them were wounded and needed to heal:


Biz didn't have many units, as he put most of his :hammers: into wonders and Confu missionaries. I wonder if Biz in this game was actually Capac in disguise :hmm:.


Next target was probably AC. AC had a mini-stack of 15 units, but he had too many cities with his vassal. I might need 30+ or even 40 Cuirs to conquer AC. :sad:
 
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konata_LS

Prince
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
360
From T181 to T231 :jesus:
Spoiler :

Settings, no tribal village


In 1220AD, a miracle happened: Justy broken free from AC :jesus:


Such great thing must be God's will :jesus:. The Queen immediately started conquering AC's land. Attack AC with Cuirs. Using captured :gold: to finish Rifling.

During war-time, the gold pop-up in London once again confirmed that the Queen was blessed by God :jesus:


AC had too many cities. After my Cuirs wiped out AC's mini-stack, he only had 4 or 5 Medieval units per city but he just refused to capitulate :gripe:. Had to spend extra turns capture his cities one by one. Finally AC capitulated on T207, after I beat him from 14 cities to 6 cities.


Justy broke free from AC probably because he wanted to kill someone :hmm:


Justy DoW Mansa in 1410AD


After AC's capitulation, backstabbed Justy. Luckily Justy went for Grens and Cannons, which were smashed by massive English Cavs. Justy capitulated on T218


I decided to ignore Mansa, as Mansa had very limited land. Attacking Mansa wouldn't give me too much towards domination. Plus, he was close to Rifling. By contrast, WvO and SB were farther from Rifling and had more land than Mansa. Moved Cavs towards the west and attack the backward WvO and SB. WvO capitulated after losing 1 city:


During my war with SB, SB's capital and core cities were lightly defended, because SB sent his units in Galleons and sniped one of my coastal cities :crazyeye:. He capitulated after losing his capital and gave back my city in the capitulation deal:

(and yes, as some of you have noticed, I forgot to build a lighthouse in that Fish & Corn city :blush:)

Next turn, domination


Economical traits are really good :queen:. With FIN cottages and faster :gp:, Elizabeth rarely fall behind on techs after REX or long wars, even with some strong techers as opponents. With many riverside tiles in this map, the strike is almost impossible.


Built many mounted units:


Most AIs still uses Medieval units. Some AIs such as WvO or Biz defend their cities with Axes or chariots. Mansa was the only AI who got Rifling before the end of the game, probably because he was at wars with Justy.


As I said in the previous Lizzy NC (NC253), +15% :gold: from UB is nice, but we don't need to build English UB by ourselves. Stock Exchange is among the buildings which may survive in the captured cities :satan:.


Lizzy is definitely one of the strongest leaders. My personal experience with Lizzy is: unlike some too strong leaders (a notable example is Capac) who quickly lead newbies to develop bad habits, Lizzy's traits are quite good for teaching good habits to new players. FIN is nice, but we need to build enough workers and put cottage to enjoy better :commerce: - even a FIN leader might go on strike if all the cities are disconnected and working unimproved tiles. PHI is nice, but to take advantage of great people, we must think about and plan the :gp: generation, bulbing, or trade mission. So, IMHO Lizzy's traits suit well the players who want to learn and practise teching and :gp: at a new difficulty level.


Thanks for the map :queen:
 
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krikav

Theorycrafter
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
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Sweden
@konata_LS
Spoiler :

I found it very funny that Sitting Bull sent his army to you in galleons and then capitulated. :D
Good call on leaving porkypine Mansa close to rifling alone and go for the softer targets!

August was very slow to capitulate in my game too, checked "Know your Enemy" now, and August is up at 7/10, didn't know he was that high.
 

konata_LS

Prince
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
360
@krikav
Spoiler :

Yes, sometimes it's hard to understand AI's weird behaviour :crazyeye:.

Congrats to your win! a glorious victory :goodjob:

I've just checked other people write-up. It seems AC and Justy have similar number of cities on Deity. But in my game AC became much larger than Justy, probably because Deity AIs start with 2 settler...:think:? As we all know, when AI Justy founds a religion, he tends to slow down the early expansion by building missionaries. On Deity Justy can build missionaries in his second city and build settlers in his capital. But at lower levels, Justy has to build missionaries from his capital, so the land around Justy was grabbed by AC, and Justy ended up being cornered in a small peninsula.


@BornInCantaloup
Spoiler :

Oh, this is really an unusual way to get Alphabet :crazyeye: Mansa's bonus from "your little civilization is no threat" is really high :lol:

The Fish & corn city is really nice. The economy looks good. You have several nice spots to backfill. :thumbsup:

Biz starts plotting :think:. Probably send a unit to check Biz's stack? He might be plotting on WvO (creative border tension) or SB. But if his target was you, it would be time to grab that Copper and build some Axes. In that Louis NC, Biz sent a stack across the map to attack me.
 
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