Nobles' Club 305: Elizabeth of England

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Elizabeth of England, whom we last played in NC 253; we last played the English under Churchill in NC 275. The English start with Fishing and Mining.

• Traits: Elizabeth is Financial and Philosophical. Financial adds +1 to any tile that already produces at least 2. Philosophical gives all cities +100% generation and a +100% bonus to Universities.
  
• The UB: The Stock Exchange, a Bank with an extra +15% generated over a standard bank. Banks are rarely build buildings as they are somewhat expensive (200 on standard speed) and maintaining 100% slider isn't hard to do when you can build Wealth, sell resources and excess techs, or just punch money out of weaker civilizations. That said, if you're planning on going conquering a few Stock Exchanges in economic backbone cities will keep your economy safely afloat. Unless you send an army that would make Genghis Khan faint to take over an amount of land that would make the Romans call you completely crazy, of course .
  
• The UU: The Redcoat, a Rifleman with +25% vs. Gunpowder units in addition to Mounted. These guys have an edge against the most common unit types they're likely to fight against, including their intended counter unit, making them an all-around excellent unit to use in their era. Rifling is a lengthy detour from getting "any" decent attacking unit on the way to Cannons, but Redcoats do have an advantage in that they can be drafted, and Banking is on the way to Rifling.

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Pangaea, Temperate climate, Medium sealevel.

Spoiler edits :

Strategic resource swaps, and one small river was added to an AI's otherwise bleak starting area.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 305 Elizabeth Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler what is demigod :

The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

A start with several options, as I see it, though I've no idea what the best move is. The warrior, to start, can either move 1SE for maximum vision range on T0, or 1NE to reveal one more tile of the starting BFC. I think the latter might matter, because the settler has a choice of SIP, a plains hill 2N, and another plains hill 1N2W. The PH 2N gives up a wet corn and isn't riverside, so that doesn't seem like the right answer (more good stuff can be hiding in the fog, of course, but that's a complete gamble), but 1N2W keeps both corns and has a river of it's own. Is a 2 city tile worth moving away from such a lovely SIP full of food and green river tiles? For a FIN/PHI leader? I'm honestly not sure.

What do the experts think? SIP, PH, or something else I didn't even consider ?

 

[soundjata]

Oh noes so much food and river
Lizzie. Hack!

Settle SE obviously. Not perfect but might be an eighteener

 

[Implo]

Nice! For some reason i have never activly played or won any cool philo leader games. Maybe this is the game!

Thinking about the ph hill NW. Will be a shot in the dark but how bad could it be. Its on a river so you will at the minimum have 8 river tiles where 2 of them are wet corns.

It will starts improving the corn 1 turn earlier. And be faster with some foogbusters.

 

[sampsa]

Thinking about the ph hill NW. Will be a shot in the dark but how bad could it be. Its on a river so you will at the minimum have 8 river tiles where 2 of them are wer corns.

Yeah, I couldn't resist that either. You can move the capital later anyway if you are going for a super-city.

 

[Henrik75]

playing the best techer in the game, is more important so I hard agree with the plains hill settle, rather than trying to get the juiciest possible research capital it's better to mitigate your other weaknesses. Early game Liz is rough with deity barbs, no early hammer discounts, no aggressive warriors, no hunting to get to archery or AH quickly - plains hill is a lot of value.

 

[konata_LS]

When playing as English, it's mandatory to send the first worker to improve the Potato, then the worker chop a workboat for the Fish, as Fish and Chip should be unlocked asap. The second city should be ideally placed near the tea tree, Sugar, and cow, as English people need some milk and sugar in their tea. But the main problem is there is no Potato or Tea tree as resources in BTS - there is even no eggs for Yorkshire pudding .<-- just joking

Judging from the start, settling on the PH 1N2W looks tempting. Plus, the start screenshot shows jungle 1SW of the banana, so moving towards north will keep the capital away from jungle. Agri-BW looks obvious. Of course, the tech path might change with scouting. If the warrior finds some Ivory, then Hunt is decent. If there are several pigs or riverside sheep (FIN riverside sheep is 3 ), AH is not a bad choice. If there is gold or gem nearby, Pottery can be delayed for a while .

Have to deal with real life at the moment. Will try this map in a few days.

 

[Henrik75]

I think pottery can be delayed a while regardless, expansion is the most important with a FIN/Phi leader, as long as you can get to pottery you will be fine. Claim as much land as quickly as possible.

 

[krikav]

When playing as English, it's mandatory to send the first worker to improve the Potato, then the worker chop a workboat for the Fish, as Fish and Chip should be unlocked asap. The second city should be ideally placed near the tea tree, Sugar, and cow, as English people need some milk and sugar in their tea. But the main problem is there is no Potato or Tea tree as resources in BTS - there is even no eggs for Yorkshire pudding

Hahaha.

 

[krikav]

Agree with @Henrik75
Lizzys stellar traits should first and foremost be leveraged such that you can ignore economy for longer and claim more land first.

 

[Fish Man]

Settle 4S. You don't need the corn. All you need is banana for banana pudding, and the jungle will give +2 science/turn later on with your cheap universit - oh wait, wrong civ game.

(That was a joke, please don't throw...but I suppose it'll be good for a challenge run, though more like a "settle city 2 and move your cap ASAP" run).

 

[Implo]

Diety NH

Spoiler 0 - 107 :

Fun game so far. Amazing to have 3 6-food tiles in BFC. Just grabbed as much land and good cities as I could. I defend my spots from Bismarck and Augustus. Had a settler on "standby" to deter Bismarks settlerparty.. with somewhat success.

Stopped around t70 to think about elecath war vs Bismarck. He is destined to attack us. But since I still had good cities to backfill I desided against it.

Bismark unsurprisingly started to plot turn 107. So I giftied him CoL and some gold and begged 10 g from him this turn. Afraid I'm just delaying the inevitable.. So probably should invest in some defence. unfortunately the boarder situation vs Bismarck is long and complicated.

Mansa attacked Justin 3 turns ago. So this is a good stopping point. I can Bribe Bismarck on Mansa for 200 g and philo. But i dont know how long that really is going to keep him occupied..

The tech pace is not suprising blazing fast. So I'm struggling to "get ahead".. Ended up going HA to enable trades for alpha, math, IW, and a couple other minor techs. Actually felt lucky the trades worked out like that.

Aest, MC, was allready researched by both William and Mansa.

Overview of my current empire.

Tech situation. I have a early academy, i bulbed philo the same turn William got it. He immediately traded it to Mansa for MC...

I'm in the supertechmod and growing my capitol as fast as I can.

The tech situation tells me that there must be a timing attack of some kind. Curri comes to mind.. but could also invest in a more reliable army with redcoats and canons. but im a bit afraid that Bismark would capitalize on such a investment and attack us. Timing wise (since i don't ha MoM or stone for oxford) I think curry is good. Probably going for a 1 golden ages.

Bismark also got MoM. So thats a great wonder to have when its time for recovery.

Any ideas to make this a fun/broken game? I have attached my 200 BC save. i run Buffy .005

Spoiler Reflection on my games state :

If I gift a city to Bismarck on SB's boarder. Maybe i can get him to friendly. Thats +5 right?

Worst case I keep him at pleased and give him some boarder issues with SB.

 

[Henrik75]

t1-194
Deity no huts, BUG + BUFFY. Will be posted on my YT in a few days

Spoiler :

Plains hill settle initially, Agg BW hunt archery wheel pottery myst AH Writing Aesthetics CoL CS
Worker Warrior warrior settler archer archer settler settler settler settler settler settler settler settler settler
at 25bc/t114

golden age, 2 merchants, 1 education bulb
at 820ad / t151

tech to rifling while cuirs rushing augustus, dont trade anything
40 turns later, profit.

GG

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

Spoiler T109: :

Philosophy and Education in. 8 cities, 379 BPT, halfway through universities.
I think Agriculture --> Animal Husbandry --> The Wheel --> Pottery --> Bronze Working --> Writing is the way to go on this map. You can set Nottingham immediately as a 3rd city, library first GP farm without forking off food from the cap until the very end.

London as a still growing megalopolis:

 

[soundjata]

Deity T50

Spoiler :

London has seventeen rivertiles and we are safe from barbs (mucho archers)
Pottery is expected and we are starting to build our third worker
Farm > Chop (archers)

Crew is looking nice. No crazy predator at our doorstep.
We need to build more cottages
Maybe we need a Robin Hood super longbow and a Sheriff in Nottingham

 

[Harv]

I played around a little bit with this start, but this thread is telling me what people might have been trying to tell me for a long time - that I have been playing wrong my entire life.

 

[Whisker]

Spoiler Question about behavior of certain AI :

So I had just bulbed Philosophy and traded it around a bit. On comes Bismark demanding said tech. He was already in war with Mansa, so I told him to take a hike. He declared war on me.
Has this happened to anyone else? I thought only Monty was crazy enough to declare while already in war.

 

[AcaMetis]

Spoiler :

I think the catch is that no AI will randomly start plotting war while they're already at war, but even non-Monty AIs are willing to plot/declare war over a refused demand even when they're already at war.

 

[chinemol]

1550 emperor conquest

Spoiler :

settled ph NEE of initial spot. expanded a lot. built great lighthouse which helped a ton settling 2 islands, missed augustus plot start, but he attacked with almost nothing, repelled easily with archers and elephants (brought like 2 pretorians one of them just bothering in a forest), bribed bismark on him and signed peace. lib MT, cuirs on augustus. justinian could have peace vassaled him so I bribed bismark on justi. capped augustus, backstabbed bismark (with cavalry), easy capitulation after catching him pants down in the open, wounded after taking one city off from justininan. justinian capped after 1 city and half a garrison. mansa next, capped after 1 city. got cannons, but willem had nothing... 2 cities and capitulated. sitting bull did so as well after one city. don't know what happened, they didn't seem to build units. didn't get to use one single cannon

 

[triplebassist]

Spoiler T 100, Prince :

I think I took too long to get to Calendar, but I still lead the other civs in growth and have a decent army that can apply some pressure to the west. All the civs there are weaker, but Willy and Bismark can become significantly scarier if I give them too long. I think the first target will be Bismark, and I'd really like to declare no later than turn 130 MoM would be nice but with my science rate at 50% I'd also be ok with some failgold letting me push that higher for a few turns.