Nobles' Club 315: Tokugawa of Japan

konata_LS

Prince
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
372
From T0 to T227 🍣
Spoiler :

Monarch level. NHNE. Normal speed.

Move the warrior to check the coast and potential sea food. Decided to settle on the PH, as two Agri resources were enough for the capital. Toku's starting techs were a little too far from AH, so beef and sukiyaki had to wait. Agri-Mining-Pot-BW. Another warrior revealed a dry wheat and stone, so I settled my second city between the Wheat and stone (settling on the stone would make the wheat outside of the city's first ring). Given that there was a hill pig, AH became tempting. Lost a warrior to a barb archer.

Met Joao around T30. Before my workers built road to Joao, I realized Joao had Sailing, because he demanded my extra resource of Wheat 🙄


It seemed there were some nice flood plains down south. At Monarch level, usually Mids are safe before 500BC. So I settled 2 extra cities near the flood plains, grew some cottages, then workers started chopping Mids. But Mids were gone in 850BC :hmm: GLH was built in 975BC :hmm:. These wonder dates were indeed too early for Monarch level - most of the wonder dates in this game were comparable to some Immortal wonder dates.


Well, missing Mids and GLH was not the end of the world, given the massive flood plains nearby. Toku's starting techs were far from BW, far from AH, but only one step from Pottery. Plus, I guessed Joao wouldn't delay HR too much.

Next phase was just peaceful development: settle near flood plains, whip/chop things like granaries and libraries, started generating the GScientists for astro bulb. I realized Joao had Alphabet when he went back to his old habit, namely making demands :rolleyes:.

Self-tech PH. Gifted a garbage city to Joao. Got Alphabet and Monarchy from him via trade.

Settled 8 cities before astro, a little greedy in expanding, that probably delayed my astro date. Got 640AD astro :sad:. Asoka and Vicky both had 10+ cities. Asoka founded Judaism, converted Vicky and Izzy, but Asoka built Shwedagon Paya and was in Free religion. Brennus founded Buddhism, was backward, but he was smashing Izzy's army. She capitulated to Brennus soon after I met her. Darius was on his own island but he teched really well. He founded Confu and built Confu AP.

After astro, backfill some techs such as CS. Pre-built trebs, generated a GMerchant and upgraded trebs to cannons. When I was preparing cannons, Joao decided to peace vassal - he probably thought my cannons' target was him 🤣

I just said yes, because Joao had neutral peaceweight, which meant he wouldn't draw too much hate from high or low peaceweight AIs. He had no state religion, which made him unlikely to become some zealots' WE. Plus, Joao was backward in my game and wouldn't be a threat at all. The real danger was the far away AIs.

Attack Darius with Cannons. Brennus and his vassal Izzy DoW Asoka in 1310AD and they were busy killing each other since then. The screenshot below explained why I didn't dogpile Asoka and attacked Darius instead:


1565AD Rifling??? :faint: Are you kidding??? :faint: It's Monarch level right???😵

Asoka ignored Education and Astronomy but beeline RP-Rifling. He's also got Grens and Cavalry :dubious:. Rifling and MT before education, is it really AI Asoka? I wonder if Asoka swaps his personality with Ragnar or Shaka 😱. Vicky is also on her way towards her Redcoat. Meanwhile I don't know what Replaceable parts or Music are 😭.


When I saw Asoka's Riflemen in 1565AD, I double checked the settings to make sure I'm playing at Monarch level and "Random personality" is off :crazyeye:.


Asoka's early Rifling made it impossible to attack him with my current army. Brennus was backward, but he had 13 cities, a giant stack of medieval units and a vassal Izzy. A war against Brennus might be tedious and only led to limited progress. OTOH, Darius had very few units, and all his units were Medieval or even classical units. Cannons against Darius' medieval units were doable. Plus, Darius needed to be stopped before he becomes a run away AI.
Look at Darius' capital :eek: look at all these wonders and settled specialists :eek:


Darius capitulated on T227. He offered Lit, drama, and theo, but I took Lit & banking instead, because banking was required for RP-Rifling.


Double gold and gem. Long rivers. That explains Asoka's 1565 AD Rifling🧐
(and yes, -182:gold: per turn is the current economy of my empire :hammer2:. The :science: is pathetic as well :o)

Next military campaign would need RP-Rifling. I don't know if it's possible to fight Asoka with Rifles: judging from his current tech pace and rich land, he's very likely to get Infantry by the time my rifles are ready. Same for Vicky who tech like crazy. Maybe Inf + arty would be better to attack Asoka..? or maybe attacking Brennus would be wiser - it will depend on AIs' techs and diplo situation 🤔.

But before getting Rifling, I need to get Communism. As shown in some screenshots above, the colonial expenses and unit costs are killing my economy. If I can't get state property before the capture golds run out, I might end up on strike again :wallbash:.

Anyway, things like AL or Arty are still far. The most urgent thing now is how to avoid the strike :blush:.
 
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konata_LS

Prince
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
372
Non-protective muskets aren't very scary either...they'll have questionable odds attacking AGG maces with first strikes and won't be much better than longbows in defending cities.
Definitely true. A hidden advantage of playing as Toku is it's impossible to play against him. No AI's Muskets can be nastier than Toku's combat I drill I CG I ones😅.

A question for @AcaMetis :
Spoiler :

Does Darius start with a capital Gem, or is that just a green hill at the beginning of the game? It's not rare to see AIs have gem start, especially on higher levels when AIs often get better start than humans. But Persepolis seems a little too far from the equator, so I wonder if Darius discovered that gem from his mine :think: .

 

chinemol

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 25, 2020
Messages
38
Location
Argentina
From T0 to T227 🍣
Spoiler :

Monarch level. NHNE. Normal speed.

Move the warrior to check the coast and potential sea food. Decided to settle on the PH, as two Agri resources were enough for the capital. Toku's starting techs were a little too far from AH, so beef and sukiyaki had to wait. Agri-Mining-Pot-BW. Another warrior revealed a dry wheat and stone, so I settled my second city between the Wheat and stone (settling on the stone would make the wheat outside of the city's first ring). Given that there was a hill pig, AH became tempting. Lost a warrior to a barb archer.

Met Joao around T30. Before my workers built road to Joao, I realized Joao had Sailing, because he demanded my extra resource of Wheat 🙄


It seemed there were some nice flood plains down south. At Monarch level, usually Mids are safe before 500BC. So I settled 2 extra cities near the flood plains, grew some cottages, then workers started chopping Mids. But Mids were gone in 850BC :hmm: GLH was built in 975BC :hmm:. These wonder dates were indeed too early for Monarch level - most of the wonder dates in this game were comparable to some Immortal wonder dates.


Well, missing Mids and GLH was not the end of the world, given the massive flood plains nearby. Toku's starting techs were far from BW, far from AH, but only one step from Pottery. Plus, I guessed Joao wouldn't delay HR too much.

Next phase was just peaceful development: settle near flood plains, whip/chop things like granaries and libraries, started generating the GScientists for astro bulb. I realized Joao had Alphabet when he went back to his old habit, namely making demands :rolleyes:.

Self-tech PH. Gifted a garbage city to Joao. Got Alphabet and Monarchy from him via trade.

Settled 8 cities before astro, a little greedy in expanding, that probably delayed my astro date. Got 640AD astro :sad:. Asoka and Vicky both had 10+ cities. Asoka founded Judaism, converted Vicky and Izzy, but Asoka built Shwedagon Paya and was in Free religion. Brennus founded Buddhism, was backward, but he was smashing Izzy's army. She capitulated to Brennus soon after I met her. Darius was on his own island but he teched really well. He founded Confu and built Confu AP.

After astro, backfill some techs such as CS. Pre-built trebs, generated a GMerchant and upgraded trebs to cannons. When I was preparing cannons, Joao decided to peace vassal - he probably thought my cannons' target was him 🤣

I just said yes, because Joao had neutral peaceweight, which meant he wouldn't draw too much hate from high or low peaceweight AIs. He had no state religion, which made him unlikely to become some zealots' WE. Plus, Joao was backward in my game and wouldn't be a threat at all. The real danger was the far away AIs.

Attack Darius with Cannons. Brennus and his vassal Izzy DoW Asoka in 1310AD and they were busy killing each other since then. The screenshot below explained why I didn't dogpile Asoka and attacked Darius instead:


1565AD Rifling??? :faint: Are you kidding??? :faint: It's Monarch level right???😵

Asoka ignored Education and Astronomy but beeline RP-Rifling. He's also got Grens and Cavalry :dubious:. Rifling and MT before education, is it really AI Asoka? I wonder if Asoka swaps his personality with Ragnar or Shaka 😱. Vicky is also on her way towards her Redcoat. Meanwhile I don't know what Replaceable parts or Music are 😭.


When I saw Asoka's Riflemen in 1565AD, I double checked the settings to make sure I'm playing at Monarch level and "Random personality" is off :crazyeye:.


Asoka's early Rifling made it impossible to attack him with my current army. Brennus was backward, but he had 13 cities, a giant stack of medieval units and a vassal Izzy. A war against Brennus might be tedious and only led to limited progress. OTOH, Darius had very few units, and all his units were Medieval or even classical units. Cannons against Darius' medieval units were doable. Plus, Darius needed to be stopped before he becomes a run away AI.
Look at Darius' capital :eek: look at all these wonders and settled specialists :eek:


Darius capitulated on T227. He offered Lit, drama, and theo, but I took Lit & banking instead, because banking was required for RP-Rifling.


Double gold and gem. Long rivers. That explains Asoka's 1565 AD Rifling🧐
(and yes, -182:gold: per turn is the current economy of my empire :hammer2:. The :science: is pathetic as well :o)

Next military campaign would need RP-Rifling. I don't know if it's possible to fight Asoka with Rifles: judging from his current tech pace and rich land, he's very likely to get Infantry by the time my rifles are ready. Same for Vicky who tech like crazy. Maybe Inf + arty would be better to attack Asoka..? or maybe attacking Brennus would be wiser - it will depend on AIs' techs and diplo situation 🤔.

But before getting Rifling, I need to get Communism. As shown in some screenshots above, the colonial expenses and unit costs are killing my economy. If I can't get state property before the capture golds run out, I might end up on strike again :wallbash:.

Anyway, things like AL or Arty are still far. The most urgent thing now is how to avoid the strike :blush:.
Spoiler :
better date than mine, but in my game I used those darius cities mainly to steal tech from him. didn't feel was getting much out of it. maybe gift them back to speed up communism and rifling?
 

coanda

Emperor
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
1,851
I'd disagree on praets. Conqs maybe, being able to defend is huge but makes it an apples to dragonfruit comparison. But yeah War Chariots are a bigger improvement to chariots - knew I was forgetting something. And again just to clarify, I'm not saying samurai are better than these units as macemen are terrible, just that they are a seismic improvement to maces. I've heard a lot good players say they're not viable, or they're not as good as berserkers, and those takes are bonkers to me.
Looked at in terms of improvement on the base unit (rather than overall power)? There's a handful of units (like the War Chariot, Cho-ko-nu, or Quechua) where you could cite situations that would favor one or the other. Sometimes +100% vs. mounted units would be a bigger boost, sometimes +25% base strength and immunity to first strikes, sometimes +3 first strikes, etc.

But there's no need for an apples-to-oranges comparison between the Samurai and the Oromo Warrior. The Oromo Warrior's boost is strictly better.

Samurai gets 2 free first strikes, plus 1 more from a free Drill 1 promo.

Oromo Warrior gets 1 free first strike, plus 2 more from free Drill 1 & 2 promos. That already matches what the Samurai get. But replacing one of those free FS with Drill 2 also gives 20% more collateral damage resistance, and puts the unit in easy striking range of the more powerful Drill 3 & 4 promotions.

And it also gets immunity to first strikes. If a Samurai with 3 FS attacks a defender with 2 FS (say, a protective longbow), the Samurai gets 1 first strike round. But an Oromo with 3 FS will get its full 3 rounds of first strikes against almost any enemy. The only exception is if the enemy is also immune to first strikes; then they both get 0 rounds.
 

konata_LS

Prince
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
372
Spoiler :
better date than mine, but in my game I used those darius cities mainly to steal tech from him. didn't feel was getting much out of it. maybe gift them back to speed up communism and rifling?
Spoiler :

At Monarch level techs are cheaper and maintenance lower than Emperor, which probably explains a better astro date.

About tech stealing, there was a Deity game in which the human player used tech stealing to reach Panzers . Lain used several ways (holy cities, moving palace, city culture...) to get the maximum advantage of :espionage: . Lain's videos often seem too advanced for new players, but you've already won some games on Immortal, so I think you have the knowledge and experience to understand Lain's gameplay.
In that video you'll see Lain kept all the captured Malinese cities, even before he/she got Communism. So I think your decision of keeping Darius' cities is good.
 

Mr_Trotsky

Warlord
Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
136
T205

Spoiler :


Decided to get land and try to get Joao to friendly for some trading. The first part went well but the second less so. I settled the whole river - beating Joao by a turn for the last spot - and got one of the silvers to the north. This really helped because I had so little happiness to work with.

Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG


I ended up whipping libraries in perhaps four spots because I wanted to be able to work specialists to use the food and not just for the astro bulb.

Unfortunately I didn’t get monarchy for a long time. Joao got alphabet and then monarchy but I was still two turns from finishing COL. He went COL next and my trade was screwed. I then went aesthetics to trade for monarchy but that cost me perhaps six or seven turns before I could start growing my cities and working on the shared civics bonus.

I got my scientist to bulb philosophy in time to found the religion but then learnt that you needed maths and alphabet too. Joao kindly gifted me alpha but I didn’t need maths so I founded an academy instead. Somebody else founded the philosophy religion before I could have got it anyway. COL was useful and I flipped into caste at the same time as HR but I think beelining monarchy myself would probably have been a better play. All my riverside cottages could have been worked from much earlier.

Alternatively perhaps I’d have been better off letting J take more of the land and teching faster. I was up to five or six cities before COL. I figured it was all really nice land, semi-iso isn’t so dependent on astro date and tech trades weren’t going to happen until I got J man friendly anyway.

I eventually got Joao to friendly with a city gift and shared civics etc. I got mechanics in a trade for philosophy - needed to tech it once I’d opened up the bulb - and got a few smaller techs too.

I settled two more cities pre-optics because I wanted to make use of my food surplus and there were still nice tiles to work. All of this amounted to getting optics around T143 and astro around T147. I’d already got the two scientists well ahead of time. The issue was commerce for astro.

I’d got my three triremes ready to upgrade and go off exploring the world. I’d already met Darius and somebody had got circumnavigation.

I met everybody and Brennus was huge and on the verge of capping Izzy - who was also fighting Ashoka.

Late astro date meant perhaps some slightly disappointing trades. Astro for feudalism with Darius for example. I still got pretty much everything I needed - CS, guilds, engineering, currency etc.

Teched towards steel while pre-building units. Eventually got a few beakers away, revolted to vassalage and let all my units finish. Finished steel and upgraded a dozen trebs. Managed to trade as far as RP with the steel line. Think I could have gotten more but after spending ages microing HR warriors and not going units out until vassalage I forgot to check the tech trade scheme every turn even though it's more important.

Joao had PP and chemistry but his most dangerous units were knights. I enjoyed formation pikes straight out of the gate though
. I declared and sent my stack towards Oporto with three units moved onto his iron to pillage it.

I could see he was going to bribe Vicky in but I couldn’t do anything about it. I’d already had to beg from Vicky when she started plotting on me a few centuries back and she wouldn’t give me another peace treaty. Predictably, she declared next turn.

I smashed Joao’s iron meaning no new knights and then wiped out is stack in Oporto. Took a ceasefire to heal. Vicky smashed some seafood and then the AP ended the war. I declared again and cleaned up the rest of Joao’s cities. I left him the tundra gift city I gave him centuries back because I wanted to get all the techs he’d researched.

Brennus hates everybody except me and - up until a few turns ago - Victoria. He declared on Ashoka who bribed in Vicky. I have just given her rifling for steam power so she won’t have many redcoats yet and I suspect she’ll get out of the war due to AP in a minute. Either that or it’s holy war on Ashoka. It’ll be interesting to see how the war between Brennus with rifles and trebs goes against Ashoka who is half the size but has machine guns, cavalry, artillery and SAM infantry.

This is going to require some luck to win I suspect. I’m very behind.
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sylvanllewelyn

Perma-newb
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,586
Tokugawa/Japan is the last entry by tradition. I don't think they deserve this spot?

Deity, no tribal villages, no events, normal speed, turn 57 (1720 BC)

Spoiler :

Semi-isolation on a small island with Joao/Portugal. Strong neighbour that prioritises alphabet and liberalism. Non-aggressive and easy to please. They got sailing quickly so I trade resources to start accumulating diplomatic points.

Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG


Fortunate that Portugal was distracted with building wonders because I could have easily been blocked-off. Unfortunate that this semi-isolation neighbour got The Great Wall. Every technology that I do not trade away immediately will be stolen away immediately.

Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG


I have not seen axemen and spearmen from them. They might not have copper. I should be safe for the near future. If I have to, I can defend against stacks of chariots with aggressive spearmen behing walls.
 

chinemol

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 25, 2020
Messages
38
Location
Argentina
Spoiler :

At Monarch level techs are cheaper and maintenance lower than Emperor, which probably explains a better astro date.

About tech stealing, there was a Deity game in which the human player used tech stealing to reach Panzers . Lain used several ways (holy cities, moving palace, city culture...) to get the maximum advantage of :espionage: . Lain's videos often seem too advanced for new players, but you've already won some games on Immortal, so I think you have the knowledge and experience to understand Lain's gameplay.
In that video you'll see Lain kept all the captured Malinese cities, even before he/she got Communism. So I think your decision of keeping Darius' cities is good.
dude just uploaded a deity game out of the blue. thanks for the support, but moving the capital is a concept for actual players
 

konata_LS

Prince
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
372
From T228 to T274
Spoiler :

Monarch level. NHNE. Normal speed

Managed to reach Communism by building :gold: and selling some small techs to Brennus :whew:. Asoka had 12 cities, Vicky 11 cities, strangely they didn't sign Defensive pacts even though they liked each other :think:. OTOH, Brennus was the largest AI, he had 13 cities and a vassal Izzy, but he was also the most backward one.

The explorer revealed that Asoka had double gem in his capital, not just one gem :hmm:


Even Brennus was enjoying his triple gold :hmm:


Attack Brennus and his vassal Izzy with Rifles + cannons. We have enough on our hands right now :ar15:


The screenshot below explained why I attacked Brennus instead of Vicky. Vicky already had Infantry while I didn't know AL :hammer2:. She also got the free GGeneral from Fascism :sad:.


Similar reason for not attacking Asoka. He had artilleries before I even got Physics :wallbash:


If Asoka / Vicky were on the same landmass as me, I would probably just spam Rifles + cannons then zerg AIs' inf. + arty :hammer2:. But naval invasion made the reinforcement more complicated and difficult. By contrast, Brennus had a stack of 40+ medieval units, but Rifles + cannons could still handle it. Plus, my reinforcement could move through Vicky and Asoka's territory to reach Brennus.

It seemed Brennus fought a lot of wars: 3 GGenerals settled in his capital - more exactly, his former capital :twitch:


Brennus and Izzy both capitulated on T274.


Izzy even gave me a city in her capitulation deal.


After Brennus' capitulation, I gifted a city back to Brennus, because that city was too close to Asoka's border. Both Asoka and Vicky tech like crazy. Now I need to think about how to fight against Asoka or Vicky before they get Mechanized infantries :hammer2:.
 

sylvanllewelyn

Perma-newb
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,586
I need to progress more before reading how the others are doing.

Deity, no tribal villages, no events, normal speed, turn 132 (425 AD)

Spoiler :

Portugal landed The Great Lighthouse. This is good news because it is less powerful in semi-isolation. It's not in the hands of someone else.
Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG


I needed to gift a city to improve diplomatic relations. Even without metals, horse archers and catapults are still a threat. I chose this spot to protect my riverside floodplains.
Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG


Trading with Portugal speeds up their tech pace and makes them stronger. I do it because I am more worried about what's "out there".
Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG


Astronomy arrives and the "out there" didn't give me the tech trades that I wanted. The tech pace is not slow.
Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG


Persia has ivory. I can try to make something happen.
Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG


 

sylvanllewelyn

Perma-newb
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,586
Still need to keep progressing before reading the others.

Deity, no tribal villages, no events, normal speed, turn 172 (1160 AD)

Spoiler :

There was a certain nation that was hated by everyone and were at war with two enemies. I had to check the diplomacy screen twice to confirm who initiated these wars. I joined for diplomacy modifiers because the barbarian concerned was not getting astronomy in the near future.
Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG


640AD was a historical milestone for the Japanese civilisation. Spain also had the Apostolic Palace. If I spread Buddhism dilligently then I wouldn't have been distracted by its resolutions. In hindsight I could have founded Taoism but I couldn't have known that.
Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG


Upon further exploration, I saw Celtic cities with non-Celtic names. Time for me to pay gold and leave. They didn't even have machinery, how were they winning like that?
Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG


If you have been looking my screenshots then you would have noticed that I had been putting my research on hold for espionage spending for a while. I knew that I was going to fall behind in tech but I could not have depended on catapults to bombard down castles. I wanted more land and I wanted it asap.
Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG


What you have all been waiting for - - samurai action! Question to readers: What odds of winning would a regular combat 2 maceman have had?
Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG


The Celts took another city from Spain. At this point I really had to stop the Celts.
Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG


My combat kills and losses once I got the Portuguese to the verge of extinction. Yes, most of my elephants got killed out in the field. It turned out that elephants can die to longbows and horse archers when heavily outnumbered. It also turned out that even with city revolt, catapults deal limited collateral damage when faced against longbows.
Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG


Japanese lands. I left a lot of grassland idle because I wanted to farm them after civil service and, perhaps, workshop them after communism. I am going to keep producing units so it will be difficult for each city to work more than 3-4 cottages continuously. I could have built more cities for the purpose of working more cottages but I wanted to stay at 12 cities. 12 is a magic number because once I have 13 cities, changing civics will take 2 turns.
Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG


I could finish Portugal at this point or take their techs and kill them 10 turns later. I won't keep Portugal as a vassal because they have no land and no more techs left for trading. I also need them completely destroyed should I decide to draft.

As expected, I am starting to fall behind in tech. To say it in another way, they are starting to surge ahead. Don't be fooled by appearances. In 20 turns the tech screen will look very different.
Civ4ScreenShot0009.JPG


I captured the Mausoleum of Maussollos from Portugal earlier and I just got a great person. I could launch a golden age if I wanted to.
 
Last edited:

AcaMetis

Emperor
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
1,574
Spoiler :

Question to readers: What odds of winning would a regular combat 2 maceman have had?
A regular Combat II mace would have had a 72.99% to win. Which might not seem like a significant difference, but a Maceman gets a 4.85% to win without taking damage, and the most probable outcome is surviving with 46HP (15.89%) or 64 HP (15%). Compare this to a Samuri's 12.59% chance to take no damage, or the most likely outcomes being surviving with 64HP (18.47%) or 76HP (18.38%).
 

konata_LS

Prince
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
372
Keep playing the game from T274 and be in a situation I've never experienced before:
Spoiler get the national epic in a capitulation deal :

As written in #30, last week AI Isabella gave me a city in her capitulation deal on T274. I just said yes without checking the city, then saved the game and closed BTS, because I really wanted to take a break after a tedious war.


Today I loaded the T274 save and checked the cities, I realized there is a National Epic in the city that Izzy gave me :hmm:

It's the first time that I get my National epic through city gifting 😓 .
As shown in the screenshot, the :culture: buildings such as theatre and monastery are intact as well - usually these building are destroyed when we capture AI's cities :think:.

Did some research in the forum about "which buildings can survive after a city changes its owner". Kaitzilla talked about this topic in the espionage guide, in "spread culture" section ; Dhoomstriker wrote a more detailed explanation in WT's thread.

So, "getting NE in a city gifted by AI's capitulation deal" confirms Dhoomstriker's conclusion: "However, these Buildings will still survive a Culture Flip and will survive when a City is gifted". When AI gives a city to the human player in a peace treaty or capitulation deal, if that city has a national wonder which has not been built by the human player, this national wonder will survive in the gifted city.
 

Mr_Trotsky

Warlord
Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
136
In my game, one of the AI is close to finishing their spaceship. Is it right that I have to capture their capital after it’s launched and before it arrives? The AI then has to start building it again from scratch.

I’m pretty sure I’ve captured the capital pre-launch before and that hasn’t had any effect.
 

AcaMetis

Emperor
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
1,574
Capturing the capitol while a spaceship is in transit will indeed cause it to fly off into the nearest sun, or however you prevent it from reaching Alpha Centauri. Pre-launch you can use spies to sabotage individual parts, but not the entire spaceship.
 

Mr_Trotsky

Warlord
Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
136
Capturing the capitol while a spaceship is in transit will indeed cause it to fly off into the nearest sun, or however you prevent it from reaching Alpha Centauri. Pre-launch you can use spies to sabotage individual parts, but not the entire spaceship.
Thanks!

I didn’t know about sabotaging parts. Can you do it in any city or do you have to get your spies to the capital? I assume you need a disgusting amount of spy points.
 

AcaMetis

Emperor
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
1,574
Sabotaging parts doesn't have to be done in the capital, it's either the city that build that specific part of any city.
 

sylvanllewelyn

Perma-newb
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,586
Comparing my game with others.
Spoiler :

I sacrificed long-term development for 250AD optics and 425AD astronomy. I exported copper to Asoka/India and iron to Isabella/Spain sooner. I am not sure if this caused problems for Brennus/Celtia who was fighting the two of them. In my game, Spain never capitulated to Celtia.



In my game, one of the AI is close to finishing their spaceship. Is it right that I have to capture their capital after it’s launched and before it arrives? The AI then has to start building it again from scratch.

I’m pretty sure I’ve captured the capital pre-launch before and that hasn’t had any effect.
LOL these type of questions are... demoralising.


@konata_LS
Deity, no tribal villages, no events, normal speed, turn 227 (1585 AD) <-- pure coincidence
Spoiler :

Everyone stayed in mercantilism, which was good, but it meant that my break-even tech research output was abysmal. Courthouses can save 50 gold a turn and I will build them later but that's not enough.
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Feels bad to backstab my only real ally but it's the only land I can take.
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Printing press, replaceable parts, rifling, chemistry, steel, steam engine, railroads. More efficient than researching them myself. I had some spare espionage points left so my math was not precise. Darius/Persia is upset becuase I used the Apostolic Palace to stop trading with them.
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I am still behind in technology. Thankfully, Asoka/India is still in state property, and the rest are in mercantilism. Any moment now, they can switch to free markets, create corporations, and start surging ahead.
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Someone wants to mess with me. I was raising my own military, so it might mean they really have overwhelming numbers. Thankfully they don't have astronomy yet.
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I am still racing against "the clock".

 
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konata_LS

Prince
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
372
@sylvanllewelyn
Spoiler :

About your game: well played so far. I think early Optics - astro is still the best choice. Mids is really nice when you can grab it in semi-isolation. In your game Joao's GLH and MoM make a solid reason to attack him. As you said, keeping GLH in your continent is better than letting it built by a far away AI. These AIs' tech pace is too crazy. Eliminating Izzy and Joao might give you enough pop for UN victory, maybe..?

Bribing Brennus out of the war against Izzy is a wise choice in your game, because Izzy and Vicky are in different religion, so the risk of Izzy peace vassal to Vicky is very low.

In my game, all the important wonders were built by far away AIs. Vicky has both GLH and MoM, she also built Taj; Darius has Mids and many other wonders. Joao only built the Colossus and hanging garden. The religious situation is bad in my game: Izzy didn't found her own religion. She and Vicky were Jewish (though Vicky converted to self-founded Taoism around 1500AD) and they were Friendly. If I bribed Brennus out of the war, 5 cities Izzy would probably peace vassal to 10+ cities Vicky. IIRC Henrik confirmed in one of his videos "the master usually gifts techs to the vassal, but the vassal doesn't give free techs to the master". So, if Izzy had to be someone's vassal, I'd prefer her to become the backward Brennus' vassal, not to become the advanced Vicky's vassal.


 
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