Nobles' Club 321: Mao Zedong of China

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Mao Zedong of China, whom we last played in NC 287; we last played the Chinese under Qin Shi Huang in NC 311. The Chinese start with Agriculture and Mining.

• Traits: Mao Zedong is Expansive and Protective. Expansive adds +2 to all cities, gives a +100% bonus to Granaries and Harbors, and a +25% bonus to Workers (note that the worker bonus doesn't apply to excess directly converted to ). Protective gives all Archery and Gunpowder units a free City Garrison I (+20% City Defence) and Drill I (+1 First Strike chance) promotion, as well as a +100% bonus to Walls and Castles.
• The UB: The Pavilion, a Theatre with +25%. The bonus isn't going to do anything if you're not generating massive amounts of culture in the first place, but when you are it can turn the tide of a high-stakes cultural battle in your favor.
• The UU: The Cho-Ko-Nu, a Crossbow with +2 First Strike instead of +1 FS, and Collateral Damage up to 60% which also affects Siege units. Ever wanted to rain death down upon your enemies' flanks while raining death down upon the enemies directly in front of you? Yeah. Aside from a lack of ways to deal with city defences these guys are walking siege units that mow down Melee units and don't care overly much about anything else. Less than most Knights would fear a Pike, at any rate.

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Inland Sea, Rocky Climate, Medium Sealevel, +1 AI to balance the field.

Spoiler edits :

A few strategic resource swaps.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 321 Mao Zedong Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler what is demigod :

The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

Now here's a situation where I'm not sold on the idea of settling the nearest plains hill, because moving away from river (admittedly we are EXP, but auto-connected cities can be a boon), floodplains and wet corn? Doesn't seem worth the gamble that there's something hiding in the fog. Instead I'm eyeing 1W to get the immediate 4 EXP bonus on the first worker. The Warrior, by the way, is probably best off moving 1NW to check the maximum amount of tiles. Seems like to it's SE there's more Floodplains, which is definitely good, but not something that needs to be scouted T0.

Here's an interesting exercise for the reader: Say that the Warrior scouts something that makes it worth settling 1NW instead of 1W, or that's just plain the better option anyway and I'm not paying close enough attention (just assume we're playing with Huts off, so you can ignore the goody hut). How many turns earlier will an immediate worker from setting 1W be at improving the Corn compared to an immediate worker from 1NW? I trust that the experts will have no problem answering this one

 

[Nick723]

Being able to work the 3 hammer tile before the border pop saves just one turn, so corn will be improved on the same turn settling 1W and 1NW.

 

[Nick723]

Not sure where I’d move however, lots of marginal trade offs. Eg 1E also an option for more river.

Agree that plains hill isn’t the way to go here

 

[Whisker]

As Nick said above, both start improving corn at same turn, but 1NW gains us 5 more commerce.
So if there are no other considerations 1 NW wins.

 

[Nick723]

As Nick said above, both start improving corn at same turn, but 1NW gains us 5 more commerce.
So if there are no other considerations 1 NW wins.

Good point! You could even move 1N instead to get another 5 commerce (at cost of a flood plain)

 

[Nick723]

How sure are we on giving up the tiles to the south? There’s got to be some more resources somewhere…

 

[ariosto]

As Nick said above, both start improving corn at same turn, but 1NW gains us 5 more commerce.
So if there are no other considerations 1 NW wins.

This is a very creative idea. But you still don't gain 5 (or 10) commerce for free. The city starts to grow 1 turn later, so you lose 3 food 1 hammer and 2 commerce. And, if I didn't miscalculate, that means that you grow to size 3 one turn later
I would SIP

What to tech first? Usual BW, or maybe try to start with TW->Pottery?

 

[lymond]

I'd move the warrior 1NW. If nuthin, I might consider settling 1E for what appears to be more fps.

 

[Nick723]

I'd move the warrior 1NW. If nuthin, I might consider settling 1E for what appears to be more fps.

@soundjata it might even be a perfect capital

 

[sampsa]

I think I'd go NW. Of the other options SIP is the most tempting to me, for a chance of extra BFC-resources.

 

[soundjata]

@soundjata it might even be a perfect capital

It is a nice thought but the oasis is a terrible tile late game

Edit: Rivers flow southward

 

[soundjata]

Regarding corn improvement and growing.

I do very much like having a corn (wet or not) immediately accessible to the worker so that growth can be achieved nicely in 6 turns. (3+3+3+3+5+5=22)

However, in a situation where I need 6 turns to improve the corn it becomes very much less elegant to grow. (3+3+3+3+3+6=21!)

Makes me wondering, if settler immediately after worker is not a better option in such case...

 

[Fippy]

I like 1w (unless the warrior finds something NW).
3 tile for the worker in first ring..prolly best amount of forests..no floodplains destroyed..best chance of new resources s/w.

An all floodplains cap looks tempting at first sight, but it's so much and some extra unhealthy that regular rivertiles should do just fine.

 

[soundjata]

^^ Agreed. Forests very much needed dont move away from them.
There are a couple of minor risks with 1W :
1. killing a potential resource on the city spot
2. losing that beautiful green mine in sight (1F3H1C could be useful early game ?)

 

[soundjata]

T52 (deity)

Spoiler :

SIP, mainly to keep forests like mentioned by Fippy.
Research BW while building worker > settler in cap for reasons detailed above and because our warrior is already guarding an excellent city spot.


Research Archery. Chop 2 workers.

Research Pottery. Chop 3 archers and 2 settlers.


We seem to be in a rather good position now

Washington, on the other hand seems to have encountered a rude neighbour

 

[soundjata]

but I forgot to add archery to barbs so the game is too easy > reload > pain

 

[sampsa]

Bought the game (couldn't find the old CD) and played on deminoob, so I guess I should report, even if I'm a bit ashamed of my play.

 

[soundjata]

Turn 92

Spoiler :

So it is another game with real deity barbs this time.
No change in strategy except a little more pain.
After Writing, hold on research until a first GS is born. Academy in cap. Research metal casting.
Captured the barb city with 5 axes this time instead of 1 archer
Obviously the plan is to beeline chokonoobs. Otherwise, why are we here ?

 

[danjuno]

Turn 68

Spoiler :

Noble/No Huts. Kind lame 3rd city, but I didn't know how far south Stalin is and wanted to block him. Libraries are building too slow. Guangzhou is just to store hammers while waiting for pop growth, but I'm puzzling over Beijing. Settled 1 NW for the extra FP, but lost the plains hill, so I'm figuring how to deal with it, production wise. Start whipping?