Nobles' Club 368: Suryavarman II of the Khmer

[sampsa]

@Build2Much

Spoiler :

In isolation cities are obviously smaller due to no /-res trades, no religion spread etc. I'm sure you can get a big capital here as well, with HR warriors. @soundjata will share the screenshot soon.

You made the decision on T0 with the available information and that is what matters.

 

[Build2Much]

@Build2Much

Spoiler :

In isolation cities are obviously smaller due to no /-res trades, no religion spread etc. I'm sure you can get a big capital here as well, with HR warriors. @soundjata will share the screenshot soon.

You made the decision on T0 with the available information and that is what matters.

That wasn’t meant to be a criticism of your note, just the reality of the situation as the game played out.

Spoiler :

part of me wanting to go 1E was to “grab more land” which was unnecessary as it turns out. I did want to open up the plains hill near the FPs for a potential city spot and that did work out, but as we know happiness was a bit of a problem for a while. Cant go Mids/Rep and HR so I was effectively stuck quickly

 

[soundjata]

1AD

Spoiler :

Can't resist settling more
Cities 7, 8 and 9 cost 10 gold / turn... A bargain

Won't be the earliest optics date but caravels will rush out in the fastest way possible

 

[sampsa]

@soundjata

Spoiler :

Academy yes/no? GS production, planning to double bulb astro I presume?

 

[Henrik75]

Henrik POV, up to t80 / 875bc

Spoiler :

Fairly smooth opening settling 2nd city on stone and chopping exp workers and a settler out while building mids in cap.
Finished pyramids pretty safely at 1400bc and just about to settle my 5th city. Just did double swap into slavery and rep. Feeling p good about this one. second city ended up being super useful, 2 workers, a settler, a boat, horses and stone within 30 turns.
I love creative. Couldn't do this without it. I'll have my videos of this up in a couple weeks.

 

[soundjata]

@soundjata

Spoiler :

Academy yes/no? GS production, planning to double bulb astro I presume?

Spoiler :

Yes Academy in the cap before IW and MC.
Could be a single or double bulb I don't know yet. (We'll be doing >400 /turn with AI money as fuel by then)
GS production:

 

[soundjata]

T155 (900AD)

Spoiler :

It took longer than expected to reach astronomy, due to a lack of 2nd GS on time.
I didn't want to switch into caste (went into bureau only) because I figured I'll want to whip galleons, having heard of "islands in the north"

10th city just settled

There's a settler/chariot party ready to embark on a journey to silver.
Silver island could be either 2 cities of ours or 3 cities forming a colony. Suggestions?
I'd like to research steel next. There's nothing else to build but army at this point (barrays and forges already everywhere).
Sweet trades with AIs who where backward on the compass line. Vikings and Persians went out of their way to give me literature and music.
Ragnar is pretty advanced. He just libbed steel this turn

Bag of snakes:

@Henrik75

Spoiler :

no stone yet

 

[BornInCantaloup]

@soundjata

Spoiler :

Good going ! As far as colonial maintenance goes, it only starts to kick in from the 3rd city. I don't think you need to worry about that.
(Sure, the 3rd will cost you more than the 2nd ; you can evaluate your situation.)

Colonies are extremely passive and I cannot see the benefit. If in doubt, just settle the 2 cities.
The big trap would be liberating a colony civ from 3-5 cities on a 10+ cities landmass and never see them actually build a settler

Oh, also, Colonial Maintenance is an additional form of distance maintenance and, as such, is entirely zapped by State Property.

gl gl

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

@0urBall

Spoiler :

Immortal difficulty, 1AD. I was very slow, couldn't expand or grow quickly enough. Does my screenshot look like yours?

Spoiler :

I started with agriculture, mining, bronze working. Even though there was only forests in my starting capital, I wanted to train warriors quickly. I didn't know there was horses nearby! For the city placement choice, I wanted ivory and fur at the second border expansion.

@chinemol

Spoiler :

Immortal difficulty, 600AD. You're right, this game might get difficult later. Even after 1000+ hours I still can't handle these maps well.

Spoiler :

Astronomy at 560AD. Just traded for currency and code of laws. Straight for liberalism through civil service, hope I make it!

Grow, damnit, this leader is supposed to grow like weeds.

 

[Henrik75]

Turn 130 / 375AD

Spoiler :

250BPT pre optics is encouraging, should have some strong long term potential with astronomy, expansive harbors and growing this cap 6 more sizes.
I am thinking of going straight to caste now (haven't teched mysticism yet lol) to run 2 extra dudes in nagara jayasri to save 5 turns on astro. Otherwise looking at 800AD astro which is fine still.
Rep beakers going strong. My slider is stuck at 20% average, dunno what I'd do without mids here lol. About to settle 9th city, the beauty of this is instead of textbook 4 city slog to optics I have expanded up to 8 pretty quickly and developed/grown these cities nicely which is going to really help me post astronomy to snowball further and have no production shortage for the war.

 

[Thrasybulos]

@Henrik75 @soundjata
A question for you:

Spoiler :

Maybe even more for soundjata, since he went for Monarchy: you're happy-constrained... and yet the one spot you guys haven't settled is the Wine ressource. Why?

 

[Henrik75]

@Thrasybulos

Spoiler :

In my case I went pyramids/rep so monarchy is useless except for one wine; but that city will cost 15+ GPT to settle, 800 beakers to tech myst to monarchy, and for what? 1 bare grass cottage in the cap? No way that'll help me get to optics faster. It can wait until astro.

 

[sampsa]

@Henrik75

Spoiler :

I think the stone settle is a great idea! Something I didn't even consider because there are other, stronger areas to grab. It's just that Mids solves all problems in one go.

 

[Henrik75]

@sampsa

Spoiler :

The stone settle is actually really nice thanks to being both expansive and creative, you get the horses really fast and its a decent pumper tile to build quick workers with, and then having strat resource for barbs and early happiness is very helpful!

 

[sampsa]

@Henrik75

Spoiler :

Yes the horsie changes things! Perhaps I had mentally excluded that spot already, but horse makes it a decent size 1 spot.

 

[soundjata]

@Henrik75 @soundjata
A question for you:

Spoiler :

Maybe even more for soundjata, since he went for Monarchy: you're happy-constrained... and yet the one spot you guys haven't settled is the Wine ressource. Why?

Spoiler :

one of my cities works wine eventually

It's a matter of cost / benefit mostly
Monarchy costs a bunch of beakers (close to a thousand!) and gives +1 instantly in all cities, then each subsequent +1 costs only 15 (one warrior) per city. This is useful to rapidly grow the core cities that have been stuck at happy cap for a while.
Later on, adding extra happiness resources like ivory, fur and wine alleviates the cost of increasing the happy ceiling and cities can keep growing without building extra warriors.

 

[soundjata]

T171

Spoiler :

Ragnar and Cyrus have been grinding nicely, must have reduced their military count significantly
I stop the war for printing press (my last self research after astro and paper ; traded for the rest)
Nice exchange of cities Ragnar bro


We finally used our "too late for astro" GS to launch a golden age last turn, after completing a couple of whips (university in the cap and granary in silver city)
Now 4 cities are pumping GP (mostly GS with some GE 'pollution')

Current plan is Rush Kremlin, while pre-building half an army, then whip like crazy.
What will I do with the great scientists?
The odd engineer I know, he shall instagib Kremlin

Islands:

Notice the stone worker?


Need more workers. Maybe the pig will be allowed wildlife forever, who knows?


still sneaks.

Technology:

 

[BornInCantaloup]

The year is 1000 BC :

Spoiler :

Long story short. Skipped Agri, BW, settled for resources.

Spoiler :

Settled on the plains hills 2E1S at the expense of BFC rivers and oasis. The location is very commerce poor, which is unfortunate.
Grew to size 4 for safety. The mine is worked this turn to get the 3rd warrior out. Hopefully, the boys will be able to handle the Eastern front, where I want to settle.

Tech path : AH, The Wheel, Fishing -> Pottery.
We fight an archer and a warrior, city 2 is ready for settling :

The capital builds a 4th warrior to help secure the north, then, with little to do with Worker turns, starts on a second settler.
This plan will be disrupted somewhat by 2 invading archers from the north, meaning we have to retreat the warrior into the city and build another one.
Safety is achieved around 2000 BC with 5 warriors, 2 workers and 3 cities. Harihara built our second worker at size 2.
Tech path -> Masonry.

The focus is now to improve some tiles and grab the stone.
Capital makes an effort to grow to 6 on our newfound ivory resource and Harihara makes workers at happy cap.
Tech path -> Writing.

So the stone will be pre-roaded and then I'll have 3 workers in the area to improve it.
With Angkor Thom contributing a 6th worker at happy cap, we have finally the ability to improve the tiles we work.
Expanding borders in Angkor Wat free up a warrior that can garrison a city, letting us grow some more.
Harihara sets its works towards a settler, so that we can unlock some more happiness.

With 3 plains hills mines and the stone improved, Yasodharapura has actually reached a pretty fast rate at building The Pyramids, despite no Bronze Working for chops. Maybe we get them, maybe we don't ; in that case it will be a fat chunk of fail gold.
Bronze Working... is the place holder for techs. I think Sailing could be better. If you've paid attention, you should have noticed the abysmal tech pace I've been paying money on units forever, now, and the capital is contributing close to no commerce besides the Palace (yes, I cottaged that rice out of spite). So, Bronze is actually only desirable in the extent that it allows to clear forests in order to improve tiles.
Rushing production is not relevant at this point.

So, now I get furs, which means Angkor Thorn (garrisoned) can grow to size 6. Nagara Jaya frees up a warrior to garrison Harihara
4 spots remain to be settled and we're working on that.
1 turn can be shaved off the Pyramids by sacrificing a little food. Some cottages are being laid by Yasodharapura in anticipation. Same thing by Harihara : actual worker turns surplus, here.

I'm uncertain what to do with my slider at this point. It might be best to leave it as it is and wait on some Libraries.

edit : solved.

Spoiler :

The answer is to keep banking gold until the Pyramids are failed or acquired.
The theory goes :
If the Pyramids are failed, then the failgold + bankgold needs to finance the research of Monarchy.
If the Pyramids are not failed, which is the better case scenario, then I can safely research Bronze Working and double switch civics.
Switching to Representation asap is not crucial without Libraries ; waiting 3 turns to make a double switch is acceptable.
The Western cities (n°7-8) would very much benefit from some chops into their Granaries.
Unlocking +3 happies in the 5 largest cities very much means we're running out of cottageable land without chops. Further down the line, it is possible some whips could be useful.

Well, as it happens, those AIs are not the smartest bulbs on the shelf and we do get to eat our cake with close to 0 sacrifice :

Spoiler :

 

[0urBall]

@0urBall

Spoiler :

Immortal difficulty, 1AD. I was very slow, couldn't expand or grow quickly enough. Does my screenshot look like yours?

Spoiler :

I started with agriculture, mining, bronze working. Even though there was only forests in my starting capital, I wanted to train warriors quickly. I didn't know there was horses nearby! For the city placement choice, I wanted ivory and fur at the second border expansion.
View attachment 710833

@chinemol

Spoiler :

Immortal difficulty, 600AD. You're right, this game might get difficult later. Even after 1000+ hours I still can't handle these maps well.

Spoiler :

Astronomy at 560AD. Just traded for currency and code of laws. Straight for liberalism through civil service, hope I make it!

Grow, damnit, this leader is supposed to grow like weeds.
View attachment 710834

Spoiler My lowly Monarch 1AD screenshot :

I've played on from here, and managed to settle all of the dotmap spots as well as meet everyone else. I'm currently trying to play the diplo game (badly ) to avoid getting into wars and getting crushed by the crazies on the other landmass

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Spoiler My lowly Monarch 1AD screenshot :

View attachment 710879
I've played on from here, and managed to settle all of the dotmap spots as well as meet everyone else. I'm currently trying to play the diplo game (badly ) to avoid getting into wars and getting crushed by the crazies on the other landmass

Do you have...

Spoiler :

... something like 3 workers ?
Good job on expanding to claim city spots and control most of the land (+ focusing on gpp for Astronomy reasons) but
You need many more workers to keep up with your cities growth and work improved tiles.

Sylvanllewelyn has at least 5 workers at this point (for comparison) and I do think this is still on the low side.

Harihara is a very good early grab with reduced maintenance but Angkor Thom probably did not live up to expectations due to low food and barren land.
I understand the wish for Chariots to secure yourself but, being creative, you can cover a ton of the island just with city culture and be safe from barbs

gl with the rest of your game.