Nobles' Club 371: Suleiman of the Ottomans

AcaMetis

Deity
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May 21, 2018
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The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Suleiman of the Ottomans, whom we last played in NC 334; we last played the Ottomans under Mehmed II in NC 331. The Ottomans start with Agriculture and The Wheel.
  • Traits: Suleiman is Imperialistic and Philosophical. Imperialistic adds +100% to Great General generation and +50%:hammers: bonus to Settler production (note that the settler bonus doesn't apply to excess :food: directly converted to :hammers:). Philosophical gives all cities +100%:gp: generation and a +100%:hammers: bonus to Universities.
  • The UB: The Hamman, an Aqueduct with +2:) . Too expensive to make wide use of early game, when :health: is still relatively abundant and (at best) two extra citizens cannot cover for the cost of building a Hamman, but in the late game this is an excellent building to simultaneously fight back against factory/coal plant unhealthiness and Emancipation unhappiness.
  • The UU: The Janissary, a Musketman with +25% vs. Archery, Melee and Mounted units. Base muskets are generally ignored in favor of units that have either a higher base :strength:, or in the case of siege-based warfare, a lower :hammers: cost to get more bodies on the field. Janissaries are given the same treatment, though they're a pretty solid all-in-one resourceless stack defender package. For reference a Janissary on defence is not as good against Mounted as a Pike (though Janissaries are resourceless and not threatened by Maces/Crossbows, Pikes require Iron and can only defend against Mounted), much better against Melee than a Mace (Melee units tend to get bonuses vs. Melee units, but Janissaries are Gunpowder units, so their bonus applies while the Mace's bonus does not) and mercilessly play a funeral dirge for the concept of offensive Archery units.
And the start:
pmLrwft.jpg

Spoiler map details :
Terra, Rocky Climate, Medium Sealevel. Terra is a map script that (roughly) starts all players on a single landmass - the old world - and generates a large continent-sized landmass overseas - the new world - which (generally) contains one or more resources not found on the old world.
Spoiler edits :
A few strategic resource swaps.
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 371 Suleiman Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.
Spoiler what is demigod :
The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.
Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :
You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
 

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Don't have time to examine the starting location in detail unfortunately, so experts, have at it :goodjob:.
 
not an expert.
Sule is imperialistic. I'd like to slowbuild settlers working hammers during the first turns. Hence, working the ivories and (not making calculations) the cow.
Immediatelly the spots I'd settle are 2W1S, 2S or 2S1W.
Warrior could look for another food bonus 1W. if nothing, settler 2S.
 
agreed with @chinemol.
Settler can 2S1E on the first turn to explore a little more.
If only cows, growth will be bad...
 
Agree. I've been impressed by how fast IMP can slow build settlers - if the player can get hammers. Not sure about where to settle. SIP gains sugar which could be farmed if freshwater allows but that's more likely to be sea E. Agree areas S and W look more interesting so Warr 1W seems obvious. Hopefully that's FP 3S 3W [corrected] of settler, in which case if it looks like it extends N I might settle on hill 1N2W, otherwise 2S as suggested to gain river access and max GLands for cottage spam and woods for chops. Unfortunately that loses hills for mining if slowbuilding settlers.

Since I can download it and have a peek here's what the warrior finds if he goes 1W onto the hill


Spoiler Warrior moves 1W :
Civ4ScreenShot0449.JPG
 
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If there is food I would like to settle on the eastern Elephants. A grassland cow is only 4-food, and settling on the phants gives one additional hammer.

Thus I would scout SE-SW with the warrior, move the settler 2S and decide on T1 whether I want to grab the cows or not.

I guess you mean 3S3W as 3S2W is the western phant? That tile is a FP, the southern edge of the green part can be seen.
It obviously is a desert and the only way it could not be a FP would be if the river ended before, not touching it, which can also be seen as not being the case.

more likely to be sea E
The water body surrounds the sugar tile, except for the tile SW. As it provides only one food, it is not fresh water and the sugar thus not irrigable.
 
If there is food I would like to settle on the eastern Elephants. A grassland cow is only 4-food, and settling on the phants gives one additional hammer.

Thus I would scout SE-SW with the warrior, move the settler 2S and decide on T1 whether I want to grab the cows or not.


I guess you mean 3S3W as 3S2W is the western phant? That tile is a FP, the southern edge of the green part can be seen.
It obviously is a desert and the only way it could not be a FP would be if the river ended before, not touching it, which can also be seen as not being the case.


The water body surrounds the sugar tile, except for the tile SW. As it provides only one food, it is not fresh water and the sugar thus not irrigable.
yes, sorry. I've lost the ability to count. Didn’t realise the sugar is surrounded by water. Didn't peer closely enough at screenshot but obvs once the save is open. I do like the idea of settling on the western phant. Depends a little on what the warrior finds but as you say it's an extra hammer and with IMP that'll make a 3 hammer capital when it comes to building settlers. Only downside is losing a turn to get there.
 
The starting image loads just fine when I try to edit the OP, and I'm not seeing any issues on Imgur's end either, so :dunno: on why it isn't showing normally.
 
T43 Immortal:

For the start I considered going 1S or 1SE of the lake. But didn't love the idea of having to go AH so early given Agri+Wheel starting techs. So settled on the elephant. Tech order was hunting->Mining->BW->AH. Now 2 turns from pottery. Capital is very food poor and need to whip out a granary after 3rd settler. Going to settle 3rd city in north with cow + rice. I went pig city 2nd to block off land from Pacal (what a bastard for settling right in my face...). Now I'm glad I did it since Monty is also in the SE.

Plan is pottery/writing, library in capital, bulb math, then construction + HBR. Going to most likely attack Pacal.

Civ4ScreenShot0032.JPG

 
General question about math bulb. I heard it discussed sometimes and seen Lain do it once. But I can never get the timing quite right. On this map I also want to work cottages in my capital so don't love the idea of 2 specialists. Thoughts from the experts?
 
Spoiler IMM Lost :
Not gonna post images, the thread is still too new. Went for my first Engi bulb, but failed. Initial warrior died, Pacal settled in my face, got barely 4 cities with an imperialistic dude. Maybe it was an elepult game, but diplo was complicated by that era. Tried anyway, 4 cities and a bribe to monty allowed me to capture the best 3, but still be techwise behind and no way of escaping the eastern pressure.
Might replay with NTT. Harder diplo, but they teched and traded a lot
 
Immortal BC 75.
Went for a gimmicky slingshot, double bulbed education on BC 125 and partially bulbed gunpowder this turn. Gunpowder will be ready next turn and I can now start back filling tech.
Of course I have gimped myself production wise by playing without BW and slavery this long, but at least I have lots of forests left to chop my Janissaries with.
Let's see if I can actually make this work.
 
Immortal t50:
Spoiler :

Settled on the western elephants after warrior 1W revealed a large floodplain system. Went Hunting - Mining - Bronze Working - Pottery - AH - Archery, then started on Writing. Went worker - warrior - warrior - settler (size 3, working farm, camp and mine) - settler - worker - a little piece of a granary and just started on an archer. Worker farmed the fp, camped the cow, mined the grassland hill, then roaded to Edirne. Settled Edirne 2600 BC and Ankara 2240 BC. Edirne went warrior, switching to a worker at size 2 which was chopped and shortly thereafter whipped. Ankara is growing on a granary and will also chop and whip a worker at size 2. After improving the rice for Edirne, worker 1 chopped worker 2 and went back to farm the fp 1E of Ankara. Then started on a granary. Worker 2 (Edirne) cottaged the riverside grassland 1SW of Edirne. Worker 3 (Istanbul) went to farm the fp a knight's move SW of Istanbul. Will leave the riverside grassland for cottages, and it looks like we have a strategic resource 1 knight's move SE of the capital.

Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG


Reflections on where to go from here. Pacal obviously needs to go and we have ivory, so this situation asks for a construction rush. I saw somebody mention bulbing math outside of spoilers and that doesn't seem like such a bad idea. I should settle a fourth city before attacking though, probably near the cow.

 
General question about math bulb. I heard it discussed sometimes and seen Lain do it once. But I can never get the timing quite right. On this map I also want to work cottages in my capital so don't love the idea of 2 specialists. Thoughts from the experts?
i'm no expert but math is one of the first things a GS can bulb. Tech your food stuff, grab writing, build a library, run a scientist or two and voila the GS will be able to bulb math. In fact the only thing he'd bulb in preference is apparently writing but you'll already have that. The Bug or maybe Buffy mod will show you what GPs can bulb on the left side of the screen.
 
Immortal BC 75.
Went for a gimmicky slingshot, double bulbed education on BC 125 and partially bulbed gunpowder this turn. Gunpowder will be ready next turn and I can now start back filling tech.
Of course I have gimped myself production wise by playing without BW and slavery this long, but at least I have lots of forests left to chop my Janissaries with.
Let's see if I can actually make this work.
gimmicky maybe, but I'm impressed for what that's worth. Was oracle involved and how?
 
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