Nobles' Club 371: Suleiman of the Ottomans

No Oracle. Avoid mining and fishing and go education through religious branch.
Another option is to avoid pottery, but then you need multiple strong sources of commerce and preferably also pyramids.
 
Played 75 turns:

Spoiler 75 turns in on Monarch :

SIP after moving to reveal the rice, expanded to 3 cities and met all other Civs. About to put down a 4th to claim Iron. I'm torn between going straight after Pacal with Swords or waiting for the inevitable crazy Monty war declaration. If I wait for Monty, then all signs point to an Elepult rush after he exhausts himself. But would appreciate any pointers/advice from the group
 

Attachments

Turn 100 Monarch

Spoiler :

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I settled the western phant turn 1 after the warrior moved onto the hill W to reveal several FPs, ideal for early cottages so I teched Pot first. Quickly discovered Pacal to South and very close. Obvs candidate for phant stomping. Bit of a shame cos he's a good techer and decent trader too and largely peaceful. Oh well, I've had time for a few trades first. Plan was to tech to HBR and then Con asap. Didn't find any metals and only recently traded for IW. No time for that. Got 2nd city planted in Pac's face to block him off and serve as forward base for attack on his cap. Opened trade routes with him. Decided if it all went pear shaped I could gift him the city but once I got a monument and a lib he's been a pushover regarding culture war.

Struggled to settle good spots after 3rd city but settled 4th city to get marble and challenge barb city for cows. It's unfortunately had to be left to get on with by itself. 5th city is filler but may challenge for Iron to the South or maybe a forward base for a raid on it when war starts.
Had Barrs and Stabs built the turn Con came in and I'm now building and whipping a stack. 7 phants so far. Hope to attack within next 15-20 turns.

Louie and HC are plotting. I hope not against me. They have no wrose enemies and until I gifted Louie Math this turn I rated lowest among all those they are cautious towards except Pac. I hope it ain't me. They are a long way off N and W somewhere as is Mao. The other AIs Monty and Genghis are also cautious. Since they share a rel with Pac it's prob time for me to convert and make them less likely to hate me for attacking their bro in faith.

 
Spoiler Immortal t100 :


Not the easiest map I've ever played. Barbs east and west were out of control and pillaged a total of 3 farms. They ended up delaying my expansion quite a bit. Not having strat resources didn't help.

Settled Bursa in 1520 BC, and when I discovered iron out east, Konya, in 550 BC. There is space for another city out west, but I didn't want to lose too much time.

Went Writing (killed slider (Aesth is placeholder) chopped out library in cap and ran two scientists) - Masonry - Horseback Riding (partially) and some beakers into Alpha for trade. Bulbed maths in 875 BC. Traded it, together with Masonry, for IW with I believe Louis. Then finished HBR and traded it for most of Alphabet to Pacal I believe. After that I went Construction.

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On the foreign affairs front, Pacal got dogpiled by Monty, Louis and Genghis. He lost one city to Monty after which the latter made peace. Lakamha is threatened by a French stack of mostly spearmen, but I don't think they'll take the hilled, Juda holy city. Now has 3 cities so still a decent target for elepult - if I can get there in time.

Btw, the cats I'm currently building got overflow from previous whips so are 1-pop whips. In 2 turns, the iron will be hooked up and all three cities will 2-pop whip 1 axe each to finish the cats.

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General question about math bulb. I heard it discussed sometimes and seen Lain do it once. But I can never get the timing quite right. On this map I also want to work cottages in my capital so don't love the idea of 2 specialists. Thoughts from the experts?
One of those situations where tile sharing shines. Helper cities can take over cottages during the 9 turns it takes to get the GS out.
 
Update: Monarch t127
Spoiler :


Getting back to the game it occurred to me I had the phants and the time during my arms build up to take Parthian to the NW. This would make developing Bursa less dangerous for workers and besides the barb city wasn't in a totally terrible spot being able to share cows and rice with Bursa.

I sent a few phants there and just as I was about to go in HC dowed on me. This was fortunate for me and unlucky for him he had decided to attack Bursa with a handful of axes and spears. No siege, so my couple archers were able to see them dead - I couldn't quite get the phants in there to reinforce so I took Parthian instead and then destroyed his reinforcements. HC spent a few turns sulking and then made peace.

I quickly regrouped in Edirne and launched my war on Pacman after having converted to the majority rel on turn 101. He'd just teched LBs but didn't get them in time to defend Mutal which fell the turn after I rocked up. It had high cult defences of 75% and took all 3 kamikaze cats to wear down the defenders enough for my phants to stomp 'em. Went straight through to Lakahama which had managed to whip a couple of LBs. I had only 1 cat left so I had to sacrifice a couple more phants to storm it quickly. I won myself Chicken Pizza. I'd been diverting reinforcements towards the city Chicken Pizza and again despite being a little held up by lack of cats and organisation that fell last turn. A bit scrappy but he's got nothing left really to do more than delay me. He was willing to make peace before it fell but wouldn't buy it with tech. He's the only AI who isn't still a caveman, though HC has got Cal which I haven't.

After Chicken Pizza I considered cleaning him off the map but his remaining cities are probably worthless and he was now willing to give CoL for 10 turns peace. I'll see how he behaves but I'd rather move onto Monty quickly. Monty founded our religion and has the shrine which makes him a juicy target. Hopefully he'll build the AP but not soon enough to stop me capping it. All of us are in the same rel except for Louie so AP diplo will be very useful to have and a PITA to go up against.

Since the map was probably mostly barb free now and I was suffering from a total blackout regarding where everything was so I've 1 turned a couple of scouts who are checking out Louie and Monty right now. Normally chariots or HAs would have done this but with zero geegees Scouts are back in vogue.

Posts above have just reminded me that Suleybaby is PHI and I've been forgetting to even think about GPs with all the warmongering. Now I can use caste system it seems a good time to look at what they can do for me. Current tech is MC as it opens up an Engineering attack and Naval Techs should I want to check out the rest of the world.


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General question about math bulb. I heard it discussed sometimes and seen Lain do it once. But I can never get the timing quite right. On this map I also want to work cottages in my capital so don't love the idea of 2 specialists. Thoughts from the experts?
One of the ideas behind math bulb can be to avoid chopping forests before it and have a good worker force ready to chop everything at the right time.
It can be quite efficient for HA rushing under proper conditions (philosophical helps for sure)
For cataphants rushing you need math anyways so why not bulb it :)
 
I guess the Lain math bulb game was the semi-isolated Pericles one? For the bulb you need a library, which is not cheap if you are not CRE. It's also quite a massive sacrifice to use a GS for a relatively cheap tech like maths, but it can be worth it if you can conquer a lot thanks to it.
 
Update: monarch t150

Spoiler :


Well as planned I DOWed Monty as soon as I was ready. Unfortunately next turn he completed the AP. I was on the ballot but unsurprisingly all the other AI's backed their fellow AI. Mao then DOWed me too. I think he was bribed. I took 2 of Monty's cities with no difficulty and the second one had the AP in. I burned it to the ground. I then took his capital and left it standing. There's the nice wealthy shrine I mentioned. Peace after getting Cal off Monty.

Mao showed up eventually on the other side of my empire with a handful of units and got wiped out. He'd given me plenty of time to build enough. I didn't even need to whip. Since he showed no sign of making peace I counterattacked and took his nearest city. We peaced out with some gold for me. I was keen to take it as bloomin Genghis had finally stopped plotting and attacked me using Monty's land. Who knows why he needed to plot so long cos his initial attack was pathetic and easily destroyed as were the dribs and drabs he's sent since.

My econ is pretty wrecked now. I made Eng eventually but haven't built a single treb yet. I want CS and Feud but my tech rate is mostly 0 right now. I got a GS from a couple of Boffins I ran in my second city and got Phil. Founded Taoism which I sent to HC. Might make me some money one day. Pac has Feud and CS and I may give him Phil for one of them but I hate helping such a good techer. No one else has them who'll trade - yet.

The peace with Monty will end in 3 and I think he'll DOW. If not I should. It's a pain Genghis being able to attack me at will when Monty's closed borders stop me retaliating.

I'm wondering if I did this wrong. I should have waited at least for the AP - I might have won the vote. Probably not. I did try buttering up AIs with gifted tech or cash before dowing Monty in the hope I could beg a peace treaty. Mao was already at pleased but wouldn't even spare me a measly deer. HC had spent my cash gift when I approached him and Pac didn't seem worth worrying about. I think maybe I should have skipped a war with Monty for now and gone after Louie who is a big frilly softie with a bevy of wonders to capture. Still at least I need not worry about the AP huh?

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I think that's game for me...
Spoiler Immortal 75 AD :

I successfully took 2 Maya cities, had to raze one which ruined a seafood and didn't have any food resources. French had been angry and plotting after making peace with Pacal, even though I switched into their (and Monty's) religion. They demanded HBR, I refused, and then of course they attacked, dragging China in. They have a big stack on my northern border while my stack is tied down south in Maya land. Don't think this is winnable. Could reload to their demand and give into it but not sure if that would solve the problem. The Maya are stronger than I had realized. Should have scouted them out beforehand.
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I hear ya @jorissimo seemingly endless hordes of barbs and that was just on monarch. Must be much worse on Imm. And I think its a tough map too, stuck in the middle of everyone else inc a couple of pyschos who buddy up
 
I successfully took 2 Maya cities, had to raze one which ruined a seafood and didn't have any food resources. French had been angry and plotting after making peace with Pacal, even though I switched into their (and Monty's) religion. They demanded HBR, I refused, and then of course they attacked, dragging China in. They have a big stack on my northern border while my stack is tied down south in Maya land. Don't think this is winnable. Could reload to their demand and give into it but not sure if that would solve the problem. The Maya are stronger than I had realized. Should have scouted them out beforehand.
I think you connected the dots yourself but I'm not quite sure. I apologize if this is heavy handed but I will spell it out.
It's a huge blow to have to raze a hill city that you conquered second. So, scouting, yes.
That capture didn't weaken him because this isn't a place where he could produce from. You also probably suffered casualties and woundeds and that has an impact when it comes to capturing the 3rd city.
From your later screenshot, you had to go for Mutal instead. That capture cripples Pacal and is a worthy addtion to your Empire.
So, the city you razed, actually, was the city you should have left him when you sued for peace against techs.

Maybe it wouldn't turn the tide entirely but, then, with Mutal and your standing army, perhaps you could resist the French.
I'm not bragging. I played like 30 turns on this map and ditched it because I thought there wasn't enough room for expansion :mischief:

Anyway : yes to scouting.
And cut the head, arms and legs, first, instead of the toes.

Just a random thought : seeing how volatile the diplo is,
It is a possibility that Pacal was not the right target. It's pretty tempting to hit the softer target but then that war has to be quick. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to hit the top dog first but perhaps it should be a consideration.
 
I think you connected the dots yourself but I'm not quite sure. I apologize if this is heavy handed but I will spell it out.
It's a huge blow to have to raze a hill city that you conquered second. So, scouting, yes.
That capture didn't weaken him because this isn't a place where he could produce from. You also probably suffered casualties and woundeds and that has an impact when it comes to capturing the 3rd city.
From your later screenshot, you had to go for Mutal instead. That capture cripples Pacal and is a worthy addtion to your Empire.
So, the city you razed, actually, was the city you should have left him when you sued for peace against techs.

Maybe it wouldn't turn the tide entirely but, then, with Mutal and your standing army, perhaps you could resist the French.
I'm not bragging. I played like 30 turns on this map and ditched it because I thought there wasn't enough room for expansion :mischief:

Anyway : yes to scouting.
And cut the head, arms and legs, first, instead of the toes.

Just a random thought : seeing how volatile the diplo is,
It is a possibility that Pacal was not the right target. It's pretty tempting to hit the softer target but then that war has to be quick. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to hit the top dog first but perhaps it should be a consideration.
I feel like my nerves clouded my judgment and I went in head first in an all or nothing attack. With the barbs pillaging my stuff and the aggressive neighbors it was a lot to handle. Not sure I could have taken Mutal with that army.
 
Deity T89
Spoiler :
Keep 🐮 in the capitol, best visible tile.

Reach size 3 (t29)
t29.jpg


Get 5 cities and 5 workers (t63)
t63.jpg

City 2 near pigs! (best tile in the Ottoman empire so far)

Beeline construction (t89)
t89.jpg

Notice empty production bars for maximum overflow hacking :o

Infrastructure:
89-infra.jpg


Everybody wants war, it might be dangerous :devil:
 
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@soundjata
Spoiler :

May I please have the turn number and technologies researched up to pottery?

How do you "produce nothing" in your cities? That might be useful for isolation games, no?
 
How do you "produce nothing" in your cities? That might be useful for isolation games, no?
It is useful, on some occasions, probably more so in isolation, yes. Press a number on your keyboard which will load up the queue stored up to that number. It's empty by default of course.
 
It is useful, on some occasions, probably more so in isolation, yes. Press a number on your keyboard which will load up the queue stored up to that number. It's empty by default of course.
Say what? Can you elaborate on this?
 
Not much. ;) So after you have alpha/currency it is moot - then you can do the same by building :science:/:gold:. The point is to simply save overflow or chops.You build nothing, so you lose all the :hammers: you produce (1:hammers: per turn most often) but you are able to store :hammers:.
 
Not much. ;) So after you have alpha/currency it is moot - then you can do the same by building :science:/:gold:. The point is to simply save overflow or chops.You build nothing, so you lose all the :hammers: you produce (1:hammers: per turn most often) but you are able to store :hammers:.
And you pull this off by pressing a random number when inside the city screen?
 
Deity T89
Spoiler :
Keep 🐮 in the capitol, best visible tile.

Reach size 3 (t29)
t29.jpg


Get 5 cities and 5 workers (t63)
t63.jpg

City 2 near pigs! (best tile in the Ottoman empire so far)

Beeline construction (t89)
t89.jpg

Notice empty production bars for maximum overflow hacking :o

Infrastructure:
89-infra.jpg


Everybody wants war, it might be dangerous :devil:
Spoiler :
Did you have any barb troubles? I see Pacal built TGW and the east seems largely empty (including an orphaned cottage outside of cultural borders).
 
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