Nobles' Club 372: Montezuma of the Aztecs

AcaMetis

Deity
Joined
May 21, 2018
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The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Montezuma of the Aztecs, whom we last played in NC 320. The Aztecs start with Hunting and Mysticism.
  • Traits: Montezuma is Aggressive and Spiritual. Aggressive gives all Melee and Gunpowder units a free Combat I promotion, and gives a +100%:hammers: bonus to Barracks and Drydocks. Spiritual allows you to swap state religion/civics without suffering Anarchy, and gives a +100%:hammers: bonus to all Temples.
  • The UB: The Sacrificial Altar, a Courthouse which cuts Whip :mad: duration in half and costs 25% less :hammers: to build. Not as great as you'd think, since Slavery has some competition by the time that Code of Laws rolls around, but still a very useful building for any city that's expecting to do some whipping. And with Spiritual you can always do a quick swap back into Slavery whenever the need to whip something arises, so expect to get some good use out of these buildings.
  • The UU: The Jaguar, a Swordsman that doesn't require Iron to build, and gets -1:strength:, -5:hammers: cost and a free Woodsman I promotion under a regular swordsman. As far as attacking units go these guys are a straight downgrade from regular swords in all but cost, but some good tricks can be pulled with these units. Given 6xp and an attached Great General a Jaguar can take the full lines of Medic and Woodsman promotions, creating a super medic who's healing prowess borders on the supernatural. Note: Medic III and Woodsman III must be on the same unit in order for their effects to stack. If the promotions are on separate units only the higher of the two bonuses will take effect.
And the start:
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Spoiler map details :
Continents, tropical climate, medium sealevel.
Spoiler edits :
None.
Spoiler isolated? :
Not iso.
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 372 Montezuma Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.
Spoiler what is demigod :
The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.
Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :
You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
 

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Don't have time to analyse the start unfortunately, but based on a quick look it seems that 1S is if not the best option at least a reasonable one. If any experts disagree lets hear what I missed ;).
 
1S does seem a no-brainer.

Things I don't like: both Corns seem to be dry, 1S doesn't provide a way to irrigate them for free post-Bureaucracy. The land seems very green, we want cottages, not farms.
Speaking of which, while you can't really have too much food early game, it seems like a case of too much food once your capital is developped (2x Corn + FPs). So while food-sharing is usually very important, it seems essential here: we'd want each corn to be available to another city (which 1S would allow, so that's yet another point in its favour).

Just to say that I might be tempted to send the scout 2E2N to get an idea about the planning of cities 2 & 3...
 
While Agri first is an easy choice, what is the best 2nd tech to research?
 
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While Agri first is an easy choice, what is the best 2nd tech to research?
My thinking is :
Spoiler :
It's a close call between BW and The Wheel,
The Wheel locks you down a REx path
BW takes you down a low commerce route. Otoh, it allows you to have production at hand for defence and you can slowroll expansion (please, do).
I would favour BW without much emphasis on fogbusting. Production at hand will do for defence.
The Wheel seems overly dangerous in comparison.

I don't listen much to the Beastie Boys, btw. I gather that was the source :lol:
 
Mining > BW is going to stagnate the economy for a long time unless there's gold somewhere nearby to grab. I think i would tech TW > Pottery and attempt to do barb defense with Agg Warriors, or maybe take a slight diversion to Archery if it looks more dangerous. Worst case scenario you get killed by barbs and lose 30 minutes of your day. :lol:
 
played a bit and my opinion on BW vs pot

deity
Spoiler :
BW for defence, maybe put some chops towards rax/warriors


non-deity
Spoiler :
BW for expansion i.e. chop settlers/workers. You can settle connected cities pre-wheel and most tiles have a coin. And it's not deity.
 
So, in theory, this new(ish) Demi-god difficulty could have the worst barbs? It's still deity barbs, but with fewer AI cities and units to keep them in check, correct?
 
I went the Pottery route on deity and reached the following position (T76)
Spoiler :
Barbs are not a serious problem on this map actually.
So rapid expansion until Wang Kong ruins the run :mad:
76.jpg


Now I have already started another super secret route to beating this map :bounce:
 
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IIRC barbs don't attack cities until there's an average of three(?) cities per non-barbarian player on the board, so the spawnrate will be Deity level but the actual invasion ETA will be Immortal level?
Good point.
 
IIRC barbs don't attack cities until there's an average of three(?) cities per non-barbarian player on the board, so the spawnrate will be Deity level but the actual invasion ETA will be Immortal level?
I don't quite follow. I thought the 3 city invasion limit is for all levels?
 
Specifically for NC's unofficial Demigod difficulty the AIs only have their Immortal level starting units, meaning no second Settler, so while it's otherwise a normal Deity game (barbarians included) the AIs will be much slower at reaching three cities than they would on a standard Deity game.
 
immortal 200ad
Spoiler :

Haven't played in months so lots I could've done better. Beelined monarchy because I knew happiness would be a big problem, don't know if it was worth delaying writing or IW for it.
Boudica attacked peter so I whipped a bunch of axes and grabbed a few of his cities, got really unlucky and lost a lot of units though. I should be able to get the barb city.
Economy is dogwater but a philosophy bulb then maybe an engineering attack on peter should be good enough.
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Slight map spoiler, but I was curious about the bronze working and pottery discussion.

Spoiler :

There are lots of riverside tiles. We can go bronze working first. Then we work the river tiles and crawl up to pottery. I think.

Turn 55, 1800BC
Spoiler :

If someone attacks early, then I can switch to slavery to train axeman and spearman. If I want warriors, then I can gift the copper to someone.

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I played up to 1AD on Demigod.
Spoiler :

I did end up going the Mining > BW route with 2 city sites along the river to the NW. Barbs weren't much of an issue. Diplo situation is very safe. Probably a W from here unless i screw something up. I tend to not finish games these days though...


Edit: How do i blur my attachments?
 

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1320ad immortal
Spoiler :

The civ gods are on my side :)
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This has turned into a pretty bloody game. Boudica attacked Peter and capped him. Then she attacked Wang Kon. Peter humorously grabbed 1 city which was enough for him to free himself, but then Wang Kon capped to Boudica anyway. And just now Boudica has attacked Sitting Bull, who has not participated in anything yet and is peacefully teching away. Peter is plotting, I'm guessing me because he's far weaker than Boudica, but his stack is pretty small.


So now I don't know what to do. I'm close to steel and have 13 trebs+a GM to upgrade to cannons and I'm starting to build grenadiers too, but I have no idea to attack.
Boudica has an enormous stack and there's a legit risk she just caps Sitting Bull. But any Celt city I try and take will just get swallowed by culture.
Try to take some of Wang Kon's land while her stack is distracted? Would probably bump Sitting Bull to friendly.
Kill Peter? He's pretty weak and has nice land but doesn't address Boudica.

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