Nobles' Club 374: Willem van Oranje of the Netherlands

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Willem of The Netherlands, whom we last played in NC 338. The Dutch start with Agriculture and Fishing.

• Traits: Willem is Creative and Financial. Creative gives every city +2 for free, and gives a +100% bonus to Libraries, Theatres, and Colosseums. Financial adds +1 to any tile that already produces at least 2.
• The UB: The Dike, a Levee with +1 on Water tiles as well as River tiles. As an added bonus Dikes can be build in any city that has a coast/ocean tile within it's BFC, in addition to cities that are settled alongside a river. Note that a city that merely has river and/or Lake tiles within it's BFC cannot build a Dike, even though both would benefit from it. A city must either be riverside or have coast/ocean within it's BFC to build a Dike.
• The UU: The East Indiaman, a Galleon with 4 cargo space instead of 3, 6 instead of 4, and the ability to explore rival territory. The last ability allows the unit to go trough rival culture without Open Borders, and not be expelled from rival borders when a DoW occurs. Note that while an EIM can enter rival territory even while transporting units without the Can Explore Rival Territory ability they cannot enter a rival city without OB regardless, so the only units they can transport into closed borders territory are those with the CERT tag themselves (Spies and Great Spies, though since the ships are forbidden from entering port the spies will, presumably, have to row themselves to shore the hard way).

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Fractal, Rocky climate, Medium sealevel.

Spoiler edits :

A few rivers were extended, and a few strategic resource swaps.

Spoiler isolated? :

Not isolated.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 347 Willem Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler what is demigod :

The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

Not entirely sure what to make of this start . SIP seems like a perfectly reasonable option, but 1E is kinda tempting to (if I'm fog gazing correctly) get some more river tiles and maybe move away from so many Plains tiles. Than again if you're considering 1E would you consider 2E to grab the plains hill? But than again than again that tile seems to be conspicuously lacking a forest, which could indicate a resource. Than again than again than again, that resource could just be something lategame like Alu. Than again than again than again than again...takes a deep breath...it could be something early like Sheep or Copper. To say nothing of which direction the Warrior should move in.

All told I'm pretty sure I'd just SIP in this case, keep it simple and surely it'll be good enough, but what do the experts think?

 

[Izuul]

I haven't played with goodie huts in so long I don't know how to read that tile. Why does it have 2H? Do huts provide 1H until they are popped or is that a forest plains tile under the hut?

 

[Thrasybulos]

I haven't played with goodie huts in so long I don't know how to read that tile. Why does it have 2H? Do huts provide 1H until they are popped or is that a forest plains tile under the hut?

The latter would be my guess.

Well, that's an awkward start for Willem.
You're just not allowed to play the Netherlands on a non-coastal start, so a dangerous expedition seems to be required.
Where's the sea, though? There's jungle to the South, so probably not a good idea to be heading there, but forests limit progress to the North... What a pickle!

 

[Izuul]

At first glance I'm leaning towards SIP. If I were to move it would probably be 1E, but you're losing a turn and a forest and potentially only picking up one more river tile if im seeing that correctly. Everything else looks like forests.

AH is the interesting decision for me. Going for it immediately is tempting because it looks like we could use the production and Willem should have commerce to spare once we get a few cottages down. On the other hand, there are loads of forests to chop with BW and many will need to be chopped before we can build said cottages. I could see going for AH 1st or delaying it until after Mining > BW > TW > Pottery. Probably a case where I'd want to use those 5 turns before making a decision. It is kind of difficult to justify spending those beakers for just 1 plains cow, but more AH resources nearby could tip the balance.

 

[AcaMetis]

I haven't played with goodie huts in so long I don't know how to read that tile. Why does it have 2H? Do huts provide 1H until they are popped or is that a forest plains tile under the hut?

Goodie Huts can spawn in forested tiles, which is what you're seeing here. It's much more obvious ingame since you can just hover over the tile and it'll say plains/flatland/forested.

You're just not allowed to play the Netherlands on a non-coastal start

I had a fun time rolling this map. Either the start was inland or the map was crazy, no in between .

 

[sampsa]

Well, that's an awkward start for Willem.

I think it's a good start for any FIN leader starting with agri. I mean what more do you want?

 

[soundjata]

There is a blue patch in the NW corner of the visible area. Looks like too much river for Willem.

There must be a twist. I expect we are bordered by Napoleon, Shaka, Ghengis Khan and Togugawa (east-south-west-north)

 

[aitkensam]

Looks like a fun start. Feels like a SIP for me. Very satisfied with wet corn, cow and a load of forest and river tiles.

 

[aitkensam]

Immortal T100 (375BC)

Spoiler :

Just settled my 10th city. Cap size 10 with academy. CS ready in 5 turns. Closing in on 250bpt. Got the triple gems spot in the east.
Got the option to bribe Hatty on Toku which I may take to ensure I don't get DoW'd.
Gotta love Willem!!!

Edit: Added a screenshot.

 

[notslin]

Have never won Immortal without reloading, but I'm stubborn, so I tried Deity. Retired at 1830 AD, finished third (second in score, but two AIs were going to win before me).

 

[pmarc]

Trying Deity because of the strong traits.

First moved warrior SE to see how much could be improved before chopping. Spoiler is T5.

Spoiler :

Nice surprise with all that sugar. I settled on the leftmost one, with the idea of setting up a helper city on the easternmost PH later. There should be at least one good city spot north along the river, and a coastal one for the clams.

Bronze Working first (and delaying Animal Husbandry after Pottery) seems better here, right? City will grow to size 3 really fast, worker will stay busy farming until BW.

 

[soundjata]

T100

Spoiler :

6 cities + 6 catapults = GG?

Spoiler :

Come at me bro. I saw you in my dreams

 

[chinemol]

where the warrior moves is of fundamental importance. only, but very consecuential reload I had (finishing IMM)

 

[soundjata]

^why?

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Question to both players that played more than a few turns.

Spoiler :

Why did you research "code of laws" so early? What happens if the Japanese attack?

 

[notslin]

Willem seems like a good fit for a long-term builder personality. If you get to the top in land and have quality cities with water (coast, lakes, or river), you can tech using cottages, use Golden Ages to get Steam Power fast, build dikes everwhere, get Three Gorges Dam and Internet and even maybe Mining Inc, and then you win Space (at any difficulty). Almost seems OP.

 

[chinemol]

^why?

Spoiler :

first moved the warrior NE wich cannot modify the settling decission and Settled in Place. reloaded, pretended that hadn't happened, moved the warrior SE and went for sugar settle.

 

[soundjata]

Spoiler :

first moved the warrior NE wich cannot modify the settling decission and Settled in Place. reloaded, pretended that hadn't happened, moved the warrior SE and went for sugar settle.

Spoiler :

OK. But i'm not sold on the sugar settle

 

[soundjata]

Question to both players that played more than a few turns.

Spoiler :

Why did you research "code of laws" so early? What happens if the Japanese attack?

Spoiler :

Toku attacked Hatchet for a little while and I wanted something to trade for Monarchy (lack of happiness)
When Toku dowed, I could produce axes from 6 cities so no worries really. also my settling pattern avoided too much border tension I think.