Nobles' Club 387: De Gaulle of France

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is De Gaulle of France, whom we last played in NC 364; we last played the French under Napoleon in NC 370. The French start with Agriculture and The Wheel.

• Traits: De Gaulle is Charismatic and Industrious. Charismatic gives every city, Monuments and Broadcast Towers +1, and decreases the exp required for units to level by 25%. Industrious gives a +50% bonus to all Wonders (World and National), and gives a +100% bonus to Forges.
• The UB: The Salon, an Observatory with +1 free Artist, providing +1 , +4 and +3 GA. Not a bad bonus for cities facing cultural pressure, but your Great Person Pool will never be free from Great Artist pollution again.
• The UU: The Musketeer, a Musketman with 2 instead of 1. If you're attacking someone with Mounted units and are afraid of Pikeman sniping the strongest units in your army, bring along Musketeers as stack defenders. They can keep up with their allies on horseback. Somehow .

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Terra, Small world size, Temperate climate, Medium sealevel, +2 AIs to try and balance the board. Truthfully I have no idea if that combination actually balanced the board or not, but oh well, one way to find out I suppose .

Spoiler edits :

A few strategic resource swaps, and to make your starting area less depressing every single unworkable Fish on the planet was moved to your shores, plus a nearby river was extended.

Spoiler what is terra? :

Terra is a map script that starts all civs on a Pangaea-style landmass informally referred to as the Old World, and generates a Continents-style landmass across the ocean informally called the New World. This new world contains resources that are rare or even completely absent on the old world, plus it's generally richer/more fertile land to settle, encouraging old worlds civs to try and race to settle the new world.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 387 De Gaulle Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler what is demigod :

The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

Two Fish with no Fishing and no Mining/easy access to Bronze Working to make building Workboats faster is...not what I would call ideal. Of course keeping both Fish available for a second (or later) city means settling at least three tiles inland, straight into the darkness that may or may not contain...anything. So...Warrior 1NE onto the hill for maximum visibility, settler moves some measure of East afterwards? Or if moving East is a given perhaps move the warrior 1SE to scout out the river, and if nothing spectacular, send the settler onto the hill 2E of it?

What do the experts think ?

 

[Thrasybulos]

Not a map script I've overly familiar with...

But a different map requires a different approach.
The way I see it (and let's face it: my views tend to precisely match the community's ), there are only two valid approaches:

1. Murder everyone before Astronomy. There is no "new world".
2. Play OCC until Astronomy, and lay claim to the whole "new world". Gift away your former capital when you get there.

The land we can see... doesn't look especially inspiring for the OCC approach.
So let's rampage, pillage, and slaughter.

I like the spot 2E2S (Four hills! We noobs like hills for production).
But:

• We'd probably want to send the warrior 1E1N to go looking for food and get a better idea of the hinterland... except settling 2E2S would almost require sending it in the opposite direction - 1W1S - to check for potentially ruined (or simply awkward) seafood.
• That spot would be decentish early and mid-game... providing it has another food source. Otherwise... it'd be pretty bad.
• Very few apparent forests: chopping trees is often a decisive first step towards chopping heads. So no trees would be bad.

So... I dunno.
Send the warrior SW to check out the coast and the western area... and send out the settler 2E, as Acametis suggested, but on a scouting mission, not a city-founding mission?

 

[Whisker]

If you move to blue circle, you can have one fish and oasis in your BFC while leaving 1S available to grap second fish (well both) and cow.
But yeah, move warrior first and see if there is more info help us decide.

 

[nmindos]

If you move to blue circle, you can have one fish and oasis in your BFC while leaving 1S available to grap second fish (well both) and cow.
But yeah, move warrior first and see if there is more info help us decide.

in this vein, settle 1N seems OK too, and can be done turn 1. one fish, oasis is basically a farm, keeps the hills we can see, and more forests up northward.

warrior 1N or 1N1W to get more insight.

2S2E looked good to me too, but ruins some fish. maybe it's worth it? looks like grassland south of the river plus four hills and a wet cow for our Industrious wonders.

 

[jorissimo]

Play OCC until Astronomy, and lay claim to the whole "new world". Gift away your former capital when you get there.

There's a third option: normal lib game, get Communism, expand like crazy in the new world

 

[chinemol]

I'd say SIP. the hill 2E of settler orphans a fish, doesn't gain worker turns, claims eastern land, but maybe there's more up north. maybe 1s to gain a river cottage, but thats not of immediate consideration. maybe grow to size 2 on the oasis, whip workboats. Very slow start, but got to get a handle of one of those some day. maybe TGL gaming if expansion is possible. otherwise slow opening and straight for construction

Spoiler played a bit. a good one :

charly gifted alphabet!!!
SIP BW opening. size 2 settler working whatever and chopping. self teched archery as a mistake, but thought I needed it

 

[Build2Much]

I’m enjoying this game (playing on immortal). It’s a slow start, and I was concerned at one point I wasn’t going to get enough , but I feel like I’m in good shape at T126.

Spoiler :

SIP, expanded to block off land, hoped for Copper and got it, limped my tech to metal casting, built Colossus. This is not a map script I use, seems good to me, gives options! I choose violence.

I will avoid Astro like the plague. Charly is about to regret building all those shiny wonders when my fury rains down on him shortly and his cities give me the rest of the gold I need for engineering

 

[Izuul]

Two Fish with no Fishing and no Mining/easy access to Bronze Working to make building Workboats faster is...not what I would call ideal.

At least you get French starting techs though. They don't fit as well here as in some other situations, but Fishing is a much less painful detour when you already have Ag and TW than it is when you start with Mysticism + Hunting.

Anyway, I don't know if it's "correct," but my initial thought is Warrior 1SE, then probably either SIP or settle 1S, tech AH while building a worker followed by Fishing while improving the cow, and then using that cow tile to get the boats built. Should be able to pump some settlers out with 6 yield cow and double fish, but Fishing starts are always kind of slow due to having to build the boats. It's also more challenging to fit in warrior builds for barb defense.

 

[jorissimo]

Play OCC until Astronomy, and lay claim to the whole "new world". Gift away your former capital when you get there.

Now you got me intrigued with this idea. Have you ever pulled this off? If so, on what level?

 

[nmindos]

Now you got me intrigued with this idea. Have you ever pulled this off? If so, on what level?

I think this would be particularly suited to this DeGaule game, too...

map spoiler

Spoiler :

...since the map is small and two extra AIs were added. sounds like we're not going to have much room to expand anyway.

 

[Thrasybulos]

I know I tried... can't remember whether I was successful or not.
I play on Emperor (maybe should say "used to" at that point since while I have Civ4 constantly running in the background for my AI League, it's now been an awful long time since I launched the game to actually... play it).
For the wackiest variants, I may drop down to Monarch, but only after repeated failures. So that was Emperor or Monarch.

Also... it may have been someone else's idea which I just pilfered (honestly can't remember). But I have the faintest notion of reading about such an attempt either here or at Realms Beyond.

 

[jorissimo]

Let's think about strategy. With OCC a lot of people instinctively say Mids, especially with a leader like De Gaulle. But that would limit you to +3 happiness, while with Monarchy, the sky is the limit. And then Oracle CoL, switch to HR and Caste, and, to quote Henrik, "pump the dudes". Probably followed by a direct beeline to Astro, bulbing Optics as well (Medi should be avoided). Pre-build loads of galleys, workers, settlers and military, upgrade and sail across. As soon as colonial maintenance kicks in, gift away your capital to the weakest civ to get a free palace. Then probably a hammer economy working mines and building wealth while beelining Chem to get the shops up.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

How do you gift your capital city?

 

[Thrasybulos]

By moving your palace to another city first.

 

[jorissimo]

By moving your palace to another city first.

Oh, but then you might as well keep your capital, you don't pay colonial maintenance for 1 overseas city

 

[AcaMetis]

I prefer the Forbidden Palace Shuffle - build enough cities with Courthouses on your starting continent to build Forbidden Palace, build Forbidden Palace in your capital, and later move your actual (much cheaper to move, to say nothing of the Courthouses) Palace to the new continent. Neither continent pays colonial maintenance given the presence of a palace building on them, and your actual established cities did all the heavy lifting with building courthouses and the like.

Works especially well with IND and/or ORG leaders given the relevant production bonuses, too .

 

[jorissimo]

I prefer the Forbidden Palace Shuffle - build enough cities with Courthouses on your starting continent to build Forbidden Palace, build Forbidden Palace in your capital, and later move your actual (much cheaper to move, to say nothing of the Courthouses) Palace to the new continent. Neither continent pays colonial maintenance given the presence of a palace building on them, and your actual established cities did all the heavy lifting with building courthouses and the like.

Works especially well with IND and/or ORG leaders given the relevant production bonuses, too .

I tested that recently though and I was still paying colonial maintenance

 

[AcaMetis]

Bizarre, could have sworn I used that trick before to avoid it.

 

[jorissimo]

We talked about it in this thread. @Lennier suggested the FP might only reduce distance maintenance, without eliminating colonial maintenance.

Post in thread 'Colonization to another Continent'

[BTS] Post in thread 'Colonization to another Continent'

Jan 18, 2025

I did some testing with this using an advanced start (medieval) on Immortal. A couple of observations:

Regarding Carracks and Astro: if you're beelining Optics anyway you might as well bulb Astro, which is a good tech to bulb. I did this using 2 GS I got from the GL and the NE. Conclusion: very short window for Carracks.

Regarding the palace trick: I did this, and after building the FP in the old world and the palace in the new, I was still paying hefty colonial maintenance, now in the old world. However, by the time I got the palace set up in the new world, I was close to Communism...

• jorissimo