Nobles' Club 394: Ramesses II of Egypt

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Ramesses II of Egypt, whom we last played in NC 330; we last played the Egyptians under Hatshepsut in NC 389. The Egyptians start with Agriculture and The Wheel.

• Traits: Ramesses II is Industrious and Spiritual. Industrious gives a +50% bonus to all Wonders (World and National), and gives a +100% bonus to Forges. Spiritual allows you to swap state religion/civics without suffering Anarchy, and gives a +100% bonus to all Temples.
• The UB: The Obelisk, a Monument with 2 Priest slots. Getting very early Great Prophets is more for the AI than the player, since the former should be left to the task of founding and spreading religions while the player builds up their empire and bulbs their way through the tech tree. But if you're looking to rush someone who hasn't build a Shrine yet early, or you want literally any Great Person for a Golden Age, or you actually do want a Great Prophet to pull some manner of clever scheme, the Obelisk will allow you to get out the required Great Person that much easier, and earlier.
• The UU: The War Chariot, a Chariot with 5 and innate immunity to First Strike. A straight upgrade over the basic chariot, particularly against archers, these guys stand a chance at winning fights that regular chariots don't.

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Shuffle, Temperate climate, Medium sealevel.

Spoiler edits :

One strategic resource move to give an AI a nearby early strategic resource.

Spoiler isolated? :

Not isolated.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 394 Ramesses II Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler what is demigod :

The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

Tough choice. On the one hand 3 city centre settling on PH Marble T1? Yes please. On the other hand, moving away from grasslands, a river and floodplains into what looks like plains and forested grasslands? Not ideal, though there's no telling what hides deeper in the fog. Could be wet corn and gold for all we know.

Really not sure what the best place to settle here is. 3 city centre versus the possibility of having no food tiles bar a plains cow and one floodplain? To say nothing of the Warrior's move, though the guy is well out of position to check the area around the marble. Any experts wish to weight in?

 

[Fippy]

Well it's Ramsy..don't need much with war chariots.

 

[Build2Much]

1. We are pretty far N. Pine trees start just above the cow. Makes me a little less excited about the Marble for the capital.

2. If we SIP, looks like are only 2 tiles in the BFC that could have horses? I’m not positive about 2S from the pic, but if that is not a naked tile then only 1 shot at easy War Chariots. Makes me more interested in the Marble for the capital.

3. If I am going AH first and hunting for horses this area would be a great 2nd city using all 4 FP when I cottage.

I think I’m moving the warrior SW, if it appears everything is forested I may take a chance and go to the marble.

 

[soundjata]

one the marble easy game

 

[chinemol]

I know I'm beelining war charriots only to find a mansa on a hill with skirmishers a a present

Marble, AH opening seems like a no brainer. Warrior S to look for spot 2

 

[AcaMetis]

one the marble easy game

I know I'm beelining war charriots only to find a mansa on a hill with skirmishers a a present

Spoiler :

 

[chinemol]

Spoiler :

T100 ish

Spoiler :

SMAAAAAAAASH!!!!!!

 

[Leason]

T100 ish

Spoiler :

SMAAAAAAAASH!!!!!!
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Spoiler Bureaucracy :

Question from the sidelines: With Thebes lacking on the cottage side, do you have plans to move the capital? To Rome perhaps?

 

[chinemol]

Spoiler Bureaucracy :

Question from the sidelines: With Thebes lacking on the cottage side, do you have plans to move the capital? To Rome perhaps?

Spoiler :

hadn't thought about it. Seems like a good suggestion. Thanks! Currently limping to Literature with rep scientists. Bureau is likely the next milestone, though a detour to alpha might be in order if Joao doesn't go for it (need those beakers and trades!)

 

[Build2Much]

Immortal. Approaching turn 100, other than scrambling to try not to lose all my chariots to strike, game is well in hand, but I have a question.

Specific to Ramesses or any other industrial leader - I just popped a GE, I’m in Rep, a couple of turns from Lit. I can bulb MC (forges), hold to bulb machinery later, settle (in Thebes or maybe what will be my new capital soon) or hold to rush the AP? I don’t see the value to rush anything else given the available traits, chops and resources. I prefer not to GA this early, but I do have 10 cities already (good chance I’ll get MoM relatively soon)

What would a better player typically do in this type of situation?

 

[soundjata]

You are borderline striking?
A golden age will solve your immediate economic difficulties I would guess.

 

[chinemol]

I ended up finishing the statue of zeus to collect the gold from another city that had almost built it because of how desperate for it I was... (settled a couple more regardless)

deffinitely not a better player, but given where you are: pick a strategy and try to stick with it

 

[Leason]

Not a better player, but: Will you be the 1st to Literature? Is music GA still available? If so, he would be my first Golden Age. If you are late to Literature, then I would rush the GL just because I like it and find it helpful. I do not value the AP because I want the religion to suit me, not the other way around.

Edit: And the correct answer is probably something like "Use the GE for whatever can give you the best immediate advantage", it's just figuring out what that is.
Is MC not available for trade? I cannot see how bulbing it would be the best use. Maybe bulbing whatever comes next (Machinery?) if it gives you monopoly and you are going Macemen.

 

[Build2Much]

Thanks for responses - my question was geared more towards generic “industrious leader who has all the advantages in this game”. Just curious if settling can be the “best move” at least some of the time, especially if all the Wonders are already at a drastic discount.

I wound up settling in the new capital, with all the various bonuses I think it was worth more settled than anything else I could have done, maybe with the exception of running an 8 turn GA? I did strike enough to lose a chariot and a warrior, but 45 hammers wasn’t a big price to pay and the wars were over anyway.

This map feeds all my worst tendencies, so much to build!

 

[Build2Much]

Also, I’m not someone that has typically gone out of my way to fail gold, but there are easily thousands of fail gold available in the first 150 turns.

 

[Izuul]

When your economy is in the tank and you're in danger of strike, getting to Currency is generally the fix.

 

[Build2Much]

When your economy is in the tank and you're in danger of strike, getting to Currency is generally the fix.

In my particular case, building a road to connect with the surviving neighbor and aggressive fail gold building provided a short term band aid, then Currency got me flying again.

 

[Build2Much]

Immortal 1750AD Domination. This was a fun map - extremely high scores have to be available to people who don't fall into the industrious trap like I did and just keep pushing. I'll have to keep this one in mind to play in a different way sometime

Spoiler your challenges if you choose to accept them... :

War Chariots running over Zulus and Romans before they hook up metal by 1000AD make this incredibly easy, the most challenging thing was keeping the economy afloat and managing a huge empire for the next 2000 years. Ignoring the WC rush opportunity and letting those 2 get a foothold in the game would make this a completely different challenge.

Conversely, not sure if winning this by <1200AD on Immortal (maybe even Deity?) is possible, but it has to be close on Immortal and definitely levels below that. War Chariot rush, fail gold economy is amazing (I think I got to 1 turn of SoZ 3 times before cashing in, same with the National Wonders). I let Joao survive forever, delayed Astro too long and didn't get the overseas trade routes really ever in this because they were in Mercantilism, but if you can rule your entire continent and take out France or one of the others the game is over, just depends on how early you get to Astro with enough of a stack to get over there.

Thanks again for the Map!

Spoiler pics :