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Nobles' Club Bullpen: Fourth Cycle

Nobles' Club Bullpen: Fourth Cycle

  1. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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  2. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Planning to get the 200 anniversary NC game with Willem van Oranje up in 8-9 days, in time for next weekend.
    Having made the last 3 maps, I would prefer to play the next NC game without any map knowledge.

    If someone has some nice ideas of a map setup, and want to make a map do shout out.
    I can assist with making the zip-files and assembling the boilerplate for the thread if needed.

    In any case do share your suggestions, ideas and wishes for the comming NC200 Wilhelm map! Is there some special map script or settings that you want?
     
  3. Undefeatable

    Undefeatable Chieftain

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    Hmm...I'm going to continue to lobby for something funky, like fantasy realm. In the meantime, though, if it's not too much to ask...could I make the map? Not sure who has the authority to decide that, is there some sorta NC committee around here..
     
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  4. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    If there is a committee around, I haven't heard anything from them.
    I just took the ball and rolled with it.
    If you want to make a map, that would be very much appreciated. A diversity in mapmakers is something that I think we should strive for.

    I hear your call for something funky, can I counter-suggest something not-quite-so-funky, such as a highlands/boreal/rainforest or something like that? Something that breaks abit from the normal, but that isn't completly crazy! :)
     
  5. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    To make a map, you simply start a custom game, as one usually do, with desired map script and AIs etc.
    You do have to start it on nobles difficulty though, and with huts on.

    Then you make the edits you like with worldbuilder and run the scripts on the finished WB-file (which I can assist with if you want/need) to get a finished .zip-file with all the starting wbsaves for all difficulties and huts on/off.
     
  6. ArchGhost

    ArchGhost Chieftain

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    Wonder how one could push incentive toward Willem's UB. The dike is really good on paper but comes fairly late at Steam Power. It could make a for a super Moai city or add more oomph to a later game Netherlands for space/post renaissance war on a watery map. I think the UU is pretty self-explanatory as a better galleon in maps where Astro matter.

    To be honest I would not be opposed to something like a Fantasy Realm style game. Lain's recent play of a map with it shows it kind of stresses analytical evaluation and some more adaptation as the standard terrain rules go out the window, sounds like a fun element of challenge. CRE will surely help there with some more settling flexibility and FIN with trying to eke more commerce out of what is found.

    Holy Cow! I rolled up a Fantasy Realm map just to look at it and it's pretty er, crazy, with the "Crazy" resource setting. Ridiculous even. Corn and gold everywhere

    I'll have to read up (I think War Academy had an article once) more about the settings before offering any more commentary.

    here we go:
    Spoiler :
    Fantastical Map: World Wrap at all map seams (top edge wraps to bottom, left edge to right)
    Land-Heavy Map: 52 plots wide, 32 plots tall, at "Standard" map size
    Sea Level: "Sea Level" setting will slightly increase or decrease the lake sizes
    Oddball Climate: Hot and cold terrain types mix all over the place, defying common sense

    RESOURCE APPEARANCE – Choose where and how bonus resources will appear.

    • "Logical" – Places resources in the normal way (Bananas in the jungle, etc).
    • "Irrational" – DEFAULT – Places resources anywhere except where they normally appear.
    • "Crazy" – Eliminates eight resources, chosen randomly, and causes four resources to
      appear in crazy amounts all over the entire map
    World wrap can be set per standard "landmass" maps i.e. no wraps, cylinder, torus.


    Quite a lot of fun stuff going on, like an Ice Corn and Jungled Horses. One of these quick glances had a Gilgamesh spawning with 4 seafoods in a lake, another with double horse, and one guy rocking a tundra hill oasis+ desert oasis + stone as his start. So definitely both ends of the spectrum possible from the totally nuts to more standard good spots. Would assume the map maker might pull a few edits just to even things out in the caps.
     
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  7. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    I've always been in favor of experimenting with funky map scripts. However, doing fantasy realms for a 200th NC celebration game with Willem sounds a bit out of place. At the moment I don't have access to the game and can't check, but iirc fantasy realms is a land based script with some lakes. This renders the UU useless, and also for the most part the UB. Originally I put Willem at NC 200 because he is a very noble-friendly leader. Easy traits to manage and a great leader for moving up, for those who want to try playing above their regular level. Hopefully this would encourage as many people as possible to play the game. Fantasy realms is quite the opposite, as it's a script that requires the player to pretty much reinvent how to play the game.

    Some continents based script that requires use of UU would seem more fitting for Willem. Continents/Hemispheres/Custom continents or any other that requires Astro. On a map that requires Astro, you are also much more likely to get to use his UB. Fantasy Realms for next NC after that would be great. Maybe do a fantasy realms Churchill game for NC 201? (CHA is seriously underrated and Church is awesome!)

    Since OP isn't updated anymore, here are the remaining leaders this cycle. Order within groups not necessarily locked.

    200-205
    Willem (Cre/Fin)
    Alexander (Agg/Phi)
    Churchill (Cha/Pro)
    Augustus Caesar (Imp/Ind)
    Mehmed II (Org/Exp)
    Montezuma (Agg/Spi)

    206-211
    Charlemagne (Imp/Pro)
    Peter the Great (Exp/Phi)
    De Gaulle (Cha/Ind)
    Kublai Khan (Agg/Cre)
    Isabella (Exp/Spi)
    Darius I (Fin/Org)
     
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  8. Undefeatable

    Undefeatable Chieftain

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    I kept rolling until I found a noob-friendly fantasy realm Willem map. Quite a bit of gold and wheat everywhere; should help even out some of the funkiness of the map.

    And I think that the fundamentals of the game - bulbing, worker management, whipping, etc. still remain the same in fantasy realm. It’s just that sometimes you get a complete lack of decent tiles to work with if you, say, start with bloody desert cows. Which I’m making sure we don’t here.
     
  9. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    I like that you are lobbying for what you want Undefeatable, but I don't like the idea of running fantasy realm. :)
    Much because I personally don't like the map script at all. I value some realism in my games and that goes right out the window with fantasy realm.
    The argument that it's a land based map that won't showcase neither UU nor UB is also a convincing one.

    So far I have only seen 4 opinions, two for (Undefeatable&Archghost) and two against (Me and Elitetroops).
    I would be more ok if we postpone fantasy realm for the next game, but really I would prefer to go with a more quasi-normal map script such as for example rainforest (where you can mine banana hills and other funky things).

    If just a few others chip in with their opinion that would be helpful, or we could do some sort of poll.

    In any case Undefeated, I really like that you want to participate as mapmaker. If we decide to postpone fantasy realm and go for something plain vanilla such as continent/hemisphere such as elitetroops recommends for this NC200. Would you like to construct that map as well?
     
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  10. Undefeatable

    Undefeatable Chieftain

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    Aww, I had such a good Willem map lined up... :((((

    Sure, I guess - a "normal" Willem map it is, then. How do you feel about (fractal) isolation, to at least spice things up a little bit? And regardless, how hard do you want me to roll it - on a scale of double river corn flood plains gold easy, to "even Lain can't beat this crap" hard?
     
  11. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Well... My thinking is that it's best to keep the map as representative of a random start as possible. So I try to filter out too good starts and too bad starts. But I think it's more relevant to look at the overall situation on the map. One thing thats good to check is if some AI has way too much land available. If thats the case it's probably best to roll another one.
    One thing to keep in mind is that different difficulties will be available. I for one will probably go with immortal if I see some Lain-start.
    Others might find the courage to go up a difficulty if the start is really juicy.

    Regarding isolation I personally like that alot. It caters my simcity mind to get an island/continent of my own where I can really plan the dotmap without pesky AIs messing things up.
    There was a series like NC that was called "Lonely Hearts Club" that made only isolation starts. (Hmmm.. perhaps I should try to revive that? :) )
    But I don't think we have had a NC game in isolation for ages.
    Also, it's keeping with the maxim of trying to stay as close to random starts as possible. And alot of random starts are in isolation.


    All and all, I think it's best if you use your own judgement. Thats what at least I would want from mapmakers, that they keep true to themselves and their style. If everyone just follows the same procedure and does the same things all the time things can get booring.
    Thats also why I do like your insistance on lobbying for fantasy realm, even though I dislike the script. ;)
     
  12. unas876

    unas876 Chieftain

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    If you come into this public and widely seen topic and suggest an isolation map and then everyone else goes "sure", and we get a map, doesn't that take like half the fun out of the isolation? :D
     
  13. Undefeatable

    Undefeatable Chieftain

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    Just wanted to avoid popular backlash for a potentially widely unpopular/unexpected decision. It's why I had the discussion about the fantasy realm in the first place, for instance.

    Other than that, though...this tells you nothing. It might be iso, or it might not; all bets are off...
     
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  14. elmurcis

    elmurcis Chieftain

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    You could say its "Earth type map" but place human into "South America" (instead of so usual old world) :mischief:
     
  15. ArchGhost

    ArchGhost Chieftain

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    Terra with the AIs together and you alone in the new world? Extreme isolation!

    Bit like playing Earth 18 as HC :lol:

    P.S. that's very boring, heh

    How can you take the fun out of something I already hate :p Will it overflow into enjoyment?

    A savvy player will infer some things from the map script freely given in the OP of the thread itself, at least all the ones I've participated in have given that info. For my part, I do enjoy the surprise of finding out myself as in a regular random game and so will only look at the leader + start; I've learned a few things that way by other better players pointing out the script-specific caveats directly or in their own playthroughs.

    I'm sure Undefeatable can surprise us yet. Perhaps the discussion *is* all a ruse to throw us off track!
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
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  16. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    You can always keep the map and replace Willem with any other leader for a coming NC game. ;) (Not hard to do when editing WB saves. Just have to replace the leader part, starting techs and possibly starting units.)
     
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  17. Smilingrogue

    Smilingrogue Raging Barbarian

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    I am in favour of something that shows off Willem's UB and UU (Even if it means isolation)
    I would like Fantasy Realm for India as their UU and traits should help adapt to off beat map scripts.

    Since they are off the board, among the leaders still left to play, I think Mehmed II would be a good pick (UB and his traits should cover for any unavailable resources and Org helps with maintenance for Toroidal wrap, where I read that the maintenance can be a killer)

    My two cents, but I will play anything posted. :)
     
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  18. Undefeatable

    Undefeatable Chieftain

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    OK, I've decided on a map. What's the fastest way to tweak the WB save 10 times? For that matter, what do the AIs start with on each difficulty?
     
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  19. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    The quick way is to run the shellscripts. There is a link in this thread, somewhere....

    hankinsohl said this last october:
    "The script file does save time - you just need to create one game and it uses that to automatically create the rest. The drawback to the script file is that you need to install cygwin or some other Unix shell environment to run it because the script file is a unix shell script."

    This is how I do it:
    I make a map on nobles difficulty, huts on.
    Do the edits I think are appropiate, and save the WB-File.
    WB-file goes on a USB stick to an old linuxmachine where I have the script.
    Then I do the command "sh generate_files MySavedWBFile NC200-WilhelmVanOrajne"
    I do get the 8 different wbfiles which I just zip together and move back to my ordinary computer.

    Edit
    Here is the manual way:
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/nobles-club-bullpen-fourth-cycle.537926/#post-13539935



    Edit2
    And here is the script!
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/the-nobles-club-bullpen-third-cycle.474730/page-22#post-12756469


    Download:
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/the-nobles-club-bullpen-third-cycle.474730/page-35#post-13102464

     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  20. ArchGhost

    ArchGhost Chieftain

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    I know you just said you use the scripts @krikav, but manually I assume you can open them in a text editor or something?


    This post also states that there was a desired direction for NC decided by the players, which is neat stuff, thanks for bringing that out to the forefront. I even took that poll, though it wants money for results :D Only thing I generally like to see in my games is anti-barb resource obtainable, my random games troll the crap out of me on that. Overall appears that a gentler game is desired unless the mapmaker wants a specific touch added.
     
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