Nobles' Club Bullpen: Fourth Cycle

[FlyingSwan]

Ideal map for montys jaguars,my favourite UU.Lots of deer on this map script,so would be nice to have 1 or 2 of those in the start...This map can generate some pretty impressive mountain ranges which I like for the 1 tile choke points it sometimes throws out..IIRC this mapscript doesnt give out much uranium/alluminium which can also make things interesting.

The only problem I can see with your concept is that human monty isnt AI monty so your warmonger could be easily dogpiled by clever diplomacy from the human player,having said that,if theres enough religious tension-anything can happen.Also this maps quite big so getting to all the AIs takes time,especially if you have those big mountain ranges to circumnavigate,so yeah it should work if the warmonger and human dont meet up too quick.

 

[Chakasulu]

You're right on about differences between AI Monty and Player Monty and I definitely do not plan to do anything that might force people to play a certain way beyond incentivising use of Jaguars.

And if the theme I have in mind doesn't play out, that's fine. The primary goal is a map that players can learn from. The theme was more for me to add some potential flavor, rather than just a random map. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything that might make the game too difficult or unenjoyable which would be against what NC is all about.

I did notice the deer, which I figured would be great for starting BFC since Monty starts with hunting.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Sounds like a good idea, always good to encourage use of the UU & UB in Nobles Club.

Edit - another thought:-

Spoiler :

Given what was said re the way humans play via AI I would be tempted to make sure Shaka had a really good start, not overpowered but something that means he should be a factor in the end game.

 

[tijup]

A quick question for map makers.
In my last game files, I did forget that we wipeout all AIs unit when creating files for the differents levels and options, and thus, reseting the AIs placements we could do in WorldBuilder.
Is there a way, in the worldbuilder, to set the AIs starting positions ? (StartingX=**, StartingY=** in BeginPlayer/EndPlayer)

I didn't realised my mistake until s/o said that Shaka was giving him hard time at Deity, and banged my head yesterday night trying to understand why my AIs were reseted back to their original locations when I was using my script to generate game files.
Before trying to do complexes modifications to my scripts, I may missed something in the WB interface to fix those starting positions.

Any clues ?
Thanks.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Is there a way, in the worldbuilder, to set the AIs starting positions ? (StartingX=**, StartingY=** in BeginPlayer/EndPlayer)

In World Builder you can select any Civ in the drop down unit and add / delete units as you like, does that not change the start location? Can't test myself right now.

 

[Chakasulu]

Sounds like a good idea, always good to encourage use of the UU & UB in Nobles Club.

Edit - another thought:-

Spoiler :

Given what was said re the way humans play via AI I would be tempted to make sure Shaka had a really good start, not overpowered but something that means he should be a factor in the end game.

Thanks for the advice advice Noble! I'm not sure I would have thought of that.

Spoiler :

Any suggestions how I might pull it off? I'm thinking two good food sources and a copper hill in the 1st BFC and iron in reach of a second or third city. Have him start on a plains hill. Put him near a river. Should I give him a good commerce resource nearby?

 

[tijup]

@NobleZarkon,

Sadly no, take a look at the case (from last NC game):

I moved Shaka from our continent to the other one, but moving only its starting units (generated game at Noble level, so, a Scout and a Settler)
here's the description for the Team=5, aka Shaka. Note the Starting Position.

BeginPlayer
        Team=5
        LeaderType=LEADER_SHAKA
        LeaderName=TXT_KEY_LEADER_SHAKA
....
        StartingX=15, StartingY=32

An now, their 2 units, that I moved to the other continent.

BeginPlot
        x=74,y=13
        TerrainType=TERRAIN_GRASS
        PlotType=2
        BeginUnit
                UnitType=UNIT_SCOUT, UnitOwner=5
                Damage=0
                Level=1, Experience=0
                FacingDirection=4
                UnitAIType=UNITAI_EXPLORE
        EndUnit
        BeginUnit
                UnitType=UNIT_SETTLER, UnitOwner=5
                Damage=0
                Level=1, Experience=0
                FacingDirection=4
                UnitAIType=UNITAI_SETTLE
        EndUnit
        TeamReveal=5,
EndPlot

But since we wipe those units while creating files for each difficulty, the effective starting position for the AI is stored in the BeginPlayer part.
So, there's maybe something that could be done, from within the WB, to fix that starting position, without messing with Units.

I can't take a look at WB, since I'm at work atm.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

@Chakasulu

Spoiler :

Any suggestions how I might pull it off? I'm thinking two good food sources and a copper hill in the 1st BFC and iron in reach of a second or third city. Have him start on a plains hill. Put him near a river. Should I give him a good commerce resource nearby?

A river plains hill with 2 agri food types and BFC copper sounds good, perhaps a decent commerce resource as well as you say. Gold might be overpowered maybe Wine as the AI love Monarchy.

Another thing might be if his nearest neighbours were those who had UU that used used horse and had that resource - given the Impis bonus against mounted units

 

[elitetroops]

A quick question for map makers.
In my last game files, I did forget that we wipeout all AIs unit when creating files for the differents levels and options, and thus, reseting the AIs placements we could do in WorldBuilder.
Is there a way, in the worldbuilder, to set the AIs starting positions ? (StartingX=**, StartingY=** in BeginPlayer/EndPlayer)

Not that I'm aware. StartingX and Y is independent of unit locations. To swap AIs you only need to swap the StartingX and Y between the two leaders, units are deleted anyway. No need to add/delete units in the worldbuilder. Then you should also delete all "TeamReveal=X" lines from the WB save for the teams that are swapped. You might just as well delete all TeamReveal lines from the file if using a script, the relevant tiles will be revealed anyway.

Might be a good idea to have the script delete all TeamReveal lines in any case. I think it has happened in the past that the mapmaker has moved the starting warrior/scout and the start has had more tiles revealed than it should have.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Might be a good idea to have the script delete all TeamReveal lines in any case. I think it has happened in the past that the mapmaker has moved the starting warrior/scout and the start has had more tiles revealed than it should have.

Good idea.

I just tested WB and you are both right, can't see a way to alter the starting position without any units

 

[Chakasulu]

@Chakasulu

Spoiler :

A river plains hill with 2 agri food types and BFC copper sounds good, perhaps a decent commerce resource as well as you say. Gold might be overpowered maybe Wine as the AI love Monarchy.

Another thing might be if his nearest neighbours were those who had UU that used used horse and had that resource - given the Impis bonus against mounted units

Spoiler :

Lulz! Zulu winter is coming!

 

[tijup]

Not that I'm aware. StartingX and Y is independent of unit locations. To swap AIs you only need to swap the StartingX and Y between the two leaders, units are deleted anyway. No need to add/delete units in the worldbuilder.

From a script perspective, easier said than done, I will try to figure out how to do that without too much hassle. For a human, that's pretty simple, for a shell script, not that easy.

Then you should also delete all "TeamReveal=X" lines from the WB save for the teams that are swapped. You might just as well delete all TeamReveal lines from the file if using a script, the relevant tiles will be revealed anyway.

Might be a good idea to have the script delete all TeamReveal lines in any case. I think it has happened in the past that the mapmaker has moved the starting warrior/scout and the start has had more tiles revealed than it should have.

Done, that was a 10 seconds patch to the scripts

 

[Robert FIN]

Hi! The school season has ended now so I could post the map when you want to try it out. I played the map once, I lost the game but even though it's not completely balanced and it's difficult I guess that there is a simple strategy to make it easier.

Justinian on Pangaea mapscript. Just tell me if you want me to post it.

 

[elitetroops]

NC 172 Wang Kon is up.

For this revival of the series I chose a strong leader and a user-friendly mapscript. Since it is over 7 months since the last game, I picked any leader with 2 traits that haven't been played more than twice yet this cycle. I don't know if any of you who planned to post maps are still around, but if you are, step up and post the next game in a couple of weeks.

Justinian, Bismarck and Pericles would be a great way to continue the series from here on, in any order.

 

[ConfusedCounsel]

Not sure if this is the place to ask, but is there some list with the best or most special Noble's club maps? I have been playing a few past ones recently but it is quite hard to find the pearls. Nothing wrong with a good pangea or something like, but the challenge and weirdness of the hilly and sheep rich Kublai Khan map, for example, was something else and thoroughly enjoyable.

 

[elitetroops]

NC173 - Pericles is up!

@ConfusedCounsel, don't think there is such a list anywhere. It would be nice if the bullpens included info of map type for all of the played games, I agree with that.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

@elitetroops - if you click on the warning sign and report the opening post of this thread a Mod should be able to give you ownership so you can keep it updated.

 

[elitetroops]

Ah, ok, didn't know that was possible. Maybe not hijack the thread quite yet if dalamb returns... Seems he was online in December last time. But good to know that this is an option.

 

[dutchfire]

Moderator Action: Changing the ownership of a post is a bit of a hassle. If it is just a one time thing to add the info, the easiest would be for someone to make a new post in this thread, and I can edit in the contents into one of the opening posts.

 

[elitetroops]

NC174 Justinian is up.

Based on traits played, Bismarck should go next, then it's time to start thinking about leaders for the next round, probably starting with a CHA leader. Post your wishes for unplayed leaders you would like to see in the next few NC games! And map makers feel free to sign up!

Updated schedule and list of leaders played:

Spoiler :

Spoiler tentative schedule :

If there isn't already a mapmaker listed, feel free to volunteer -- but read the mapmaking guidelines in the following messages.

• NC 175: Bismarck (Ind/Exp)

How often we've played each trait. Not including scheduled games: Agg 3, Cha 2, Cre 3, Exp 2, Fin 3, Imp 3, Ind 2, Org 3, Phi 3, Pro 3, Spi 3

The list of leaders we've already played in this round (in reverse chronological order for easy of editing):

• NC 174: Justinian (Imp/Spi)
• NC 173: Pericles (Phi/Cre)
• NC 172: Wang Kon (Fin/Pro)
• NC 171: Hammurabi (Agg/Org)
• NC 170: Sitting Bull (Phi/Pro)
• NC 169: Pacal II (Exp/Fin)
• NC 168: Boudica (Agg/Cha)
• NC 167: Louis XIV (Cre/Ind)
• NC 166: Julius Caesar (Imp/Org)
• NC 165: Saladin (Pro/Spi)
• NC 164: Washington (Cha/Exp)
• NC 163: Stalin (Agg/Ind)
• NC 162: Victoria (Fin/Imp)
• NC 161: Zara Yaqob (Cre/Org)
• NC 160: Gandhi (Phi/Spi)

The list of unplayed/unscheduled leaders, in alphabetical order:

Spoiler :

• Alexander (Agg/Phi)
• Asoka (Org/Spi)
• Augustus Caesar (Imp/Ind)
• Brennus (Spi/Cha)
• Catherine (Cre/Imp)
• Charlemagne (Imp/Pro)
• Churchill (Cha/Pro)
• Cyrus (Cha/Imp)
• Darius I (Fin/Org)
• De Gaulle (Cha/Ind)
• Elizabeth (Fin/Phi)
• Frederick (Phi/Org)
• Genghis Khan (Agg/Imp)
• Gilgamesh (Cre/Pro)
• Hannibal (Fin/Cha)
• Hatchepsut (Cre/Spi)
• Huayna Capac (Fin/Ind)
• Isabella (Exp/Spi)
• Joao (Imp/Exp)
• Kublai Khan (Agg/Cre)
• Lincoln (Cha/Phi)
• Mansa Musa (Fin/Spi)
• Mao Zedong (Exp/Pro)
• Mehmed II (Org/Exp)
• Montezuma (Agg/Spi)
• Napoleon (Cha/Org)
• Peter the Great (Exp/Phi)
• Qin Shi Huang (Ind/Pro)
• Ragnar (Agg/Fin)
• Ramesses II (Spi/Ind)
• Roosevelt (Ind/Org)
• Shaka (Agg/Exp)
• Sulieman (Imp/Phi)
• Suryavaraman II (Cre/Exp)
• Tokugawa (Agg/Pro)
• Willem (Cre/Fin)

If a mod could edit the OP of this thread and copy the entire content of the spoiler above to replace the relevant parts in the OP, that would be great. Thank you!