IIRC, a peacevassal will, but a capitulated vassal will not.
Nobles' Club CII: Gilgamesh of Sumeria
- Thread starter dalamb
- Start date
IIRC, a peacevassal will, but a capitulated vassal will not.
Hi
I know for a fact that AI's with a vassal can capitulate before their vassals break off. I have had several games including a few past noble club games where I am at war with a civ with a vassal and cap the master. What happens is the the master now your vassal dow's on his former vassal or vassals.
Now I am not gonna say I know the exact mechanics. Sometimes its pretty easy sometimes its hard. I do know I have a few times run into a sitch where master gives "we are afraid of your enemies" as reason for not capitulating even when only other civ ur at war with is their own vassal. which always felt kinda silly since it means theyre afraid of their own vassal but if their vassal is small enough then it shouldnt be a problem.
I have also had games where a capitulated vassal has broken free. There are land/population points where a capitulated vassal can break away. If you mouse over the empires name at bottom right hand corner it will say something like "land x% of master free at 50%" etc. And if they hit those points sometimes they do break away. But I'll amit that is kinda rare. I even believe a vassal ai can break away by refusing a demand form the master just like they can for you when you make a "time for tribute refusal means war" demand to one fo your vassals. But thats very very rare I think I have only seen that happen once in all the games I have played over the years.
Now Im not saying its gonna always be easy. I have had games where a civ refused to cap even down to his last city. Other times I have had em cap after taken just one or two cities. I have even had some cap just from killing their main stack and not even having to take a city. And games where I cap a master civ and after they turn into ur vassal and Dow on their old vassla that same turn the now freed (or booted depending on ur pov) vassal is also willing to cap that turn.
I'm sure part of all the mechanics for this depends on the ai, the power ratings, how well they're doing in the war (and from what I read how many tiles of ur borders are touching his or something like that) I just cant say I know enought hat I can tell right before hand how easy or hard its gonna be. I mostly just do my best to kill stuff until they rdy to cap then make decision if its worth vassalizing them or just killing em off.
Kaytie
I know for a fact that AI's with a vassal can capitulate before their vassals break off. I have had several games including a few past noble club games where I am at war with a civ with a vassal and cap the master. What happens is the the master now your vassal dow's on his former vassal or vassals.
Now I am not gonna say I know the exact mechanics. Sometimes its pretty easy sometimes its hard. I do know I have a few times run into a sitch where master gives "we are afraid of your enemies" as reason for not capitulating even when only other civ ur at war with is their own vassal. which always felt kinda silly since it means theyre afraid of their own vassal but if their vassal is small enough then it shouldnt be a problem.
I have also had games where a capitulated vassal has broken free. There are land/population points where a capitulated vassal can break away. If you mouse over the empires name at bottom right hand corner it will say something like "land x% of master free at 50%" etc. And if they hit those points sometimes they do break away. But I'll amit that is kinda rare. I even believe a vassal ai can break away by refusing a demand form the master just like they can for you when you make a "time for tribute refusal means war" demand to one fo your vassals. But thats very very rare I think I have only seen that happen once in all the games I have played over the years.
Now Im not saying its gonna always be easy. I have had games where a civ refused to cap even down to his last city. Other times I have had em cap after taken just one or two cities. I have even had some cap just from killing their main stack and not even having to take a city. And games where I cap a master civ and after they turn into ur vassal and Dow on their old vassla that same turn the now freed (or booted depending on ur pov) vassal is also willing to cap that turn.
I'm sure part of all the mechanics for this depends on the ai, the power ratings, how well they're doing in the war (and from what I read how many tiles of ur borders are touching his or something like that) I just cant say I know enought hat I can tell right before hand how easy or hard its gonna be. I mostly just do my best to kill stuff until they rdy to cap then make decision if its worth vassalizing them or just killing em off.
Kaytie
I think so.
Vassals (can?) leave their masters if certain conditions are met.
Vassal having X% of masters land is one condition.
If you make the master smaller, the vassal will thus meet this condition easier.
I'm not entierly sure of how the mechanics work though.
dalamb
Deity
@KK: Thanks for pointing out that hovering over the vassal shows when they'll break free. The vassal goes free in my case (and maybe all others if any of these happens):
- The Master's population drops, or the vassal's grows, to where the vassal is 50% of the master's.
- The vassal's territory drops to 50% of "original" (whatever that means)
- The master's territory drops, or the vassal's grows, to where the vassal is 50% of the master's.
First post at CFC: long time reader, bought Civ IV in Summer 2012, have played ~15 games and feel like I should be doing better than I am, so I am turning to Nobles Club to see if I too can improve my Civ IV level.
I have beat Chieftain pretty easily, cannot win easily on Noble. I have pretty much read the Civ IV War Academy. I'm much more of a builder, and I don't always integrate military well into every game (some games I do - out of the ~15 I successfully crushed Stalin once with archer, and once with axes) but definitely need help with military (usually behind in "soldiers"). E.g. just before this I finished a Noble game where I eked out a culture victory (was going for space, but happened to get a great artist and finished my legendary 3rd city). It was continents and I was alone with Egypt who only had 3 cities to my 8, but it wasn't until the industrial era that I steamrolled them (in fact, they attacked me). Byzantium and Spain were teching with me, Inca and Spain attacked me (all three were Buddhist and I had been Hindu), and a behind Korea did Apollo before me (though I had all except 3 space parts). My goal is to be able to routinely win on Noble-->?Monarch, and some day hang with AI on ?Immortal/?Deity
Other weaknesses: build order, micromanagement, city specialization, ? tech order, espionage (definitely underutilizing this); in Civ I-III I never traded tech on principle (ever), but seem to have gotten over that for Civ IV when I can get a good trade (but AI seems to be really into asymmetric trades). I like to found religion early, but one of the top ten guides for new players says "avoid" and "do not adopt" (I confess I love to try to get Sistine/Sankore/Spiral Minaret).
Overall, I know I cannot routinely beat Noble, and that I probably don't have insight into what I do poorly, but it's obvious that I need to learn more in execution and planning, and that I can learn from CFC.
So: BTS, Noble, Regular, Huts
(I've only read the first few posts - I read no spoilers, though I saw who already won and by what method, I didn't look beyond that at anything else posted).
4000 BC: My thoughts and questions:
--Generally prefer to start in place (no guarantee of better stuff elsewhere). Stone was a good surprise.
--Build order: many on CFC say "worker first", but my instinct would have been warrior, three turns on 2nd warrior to size 2, then worker. Others say "grow to happy cap" before worker settler. With other leaders I've used, worker would have nothing to do now, but this game has farm and road techs at start. So I don't know which to do first...in the end, chose warrior (to explore/defend).
--Tech: I still have a "religion-centric" view. I will try for Hinduism (I usually get beat to Buddhism), and in this game, Priesthood is a more important tech for UB so maybe not as big a risk going that pathway. 20 turns to Hinduism. I suppose I should think about my mid- and long- range tech goals, but do they really matter? E.g. I will be getting/backfilling in basic techs. Or should I plan already e.g. beeline to Philosophy? Obviously, I'll need BW for my UU.
--Slider: I usually start at 100% research. Goody huts seem to give a bit of gold to sustain several dozen turns, and I typically don't run deficit until 2nd city.
--Plan: many on CFC say "have a plan" from the beginning. Who knows what is out there though? Again I like to build, so if I'm by myself great, but maybe Aztecs are nearby, and in maybe 2/3 games I've played Ethiopia has been a neighbor and always on my case.
--What else should I be thinking at 4000 BC?
(Also question re: posting. What is best file format for screenshots?)
I have beat Chieftain pretty easily, cannot win easily on Noble. I have pretty much read the Civ IV War Academy. I'm much more of a builder, and I don't always integrate military well into every game (some games I do - out of the ~15 I successfully crushed Stalin once with archer, and once with axes) but definitely need help with military (usually behind in "soldiers"). E.g. just before this I finished a Noble game where I eked out a culture victory (was going for space, but happened to get a great artist and finished my legendary 3rd city). It was continents and I was alone with Egypt who only had 3 cities to my 8, but it wasn't until the industrial era that I steamrolled them (in fact, they attacked me). Byzantium and Spain were teching with me, Inca and Spain attacked me (all three were Buddhist and I had been Hindu), and a behind Korea did Apollo before me (though I had all except 3 space parts). My goal is to be able to routinely win on Noble-->?Monarch, and some day hang with AI on ?Immortal/?Deity
Other weaknesses: build order, micromanagement, city specialization, ? tech order, espionage (definitely underutilizing this); in Civ I-III I never traded tech on principle (ever), but seem to have gotten over that for Civ IV when I can get a good trade (but AI seems to be really into asymmetric trades). I like to found religion early, but one of the top ten guides for new players says "avoid" and "do not adopt" (I confess I love to try to get Sistine/Sankore/Spiral Minaret).
Overall, I know I cannot routinely beat Noble, and that I probably don't have insight into what I do poorly, but it's obvious that I need to learn more in execution and planning, and that I can learn from CFC.
So: BTS, Noble, Regular, Huts
(I've only read the first few posts - I read no spoilers, though I saw who already won and by what method, I didn't look beyond that at anything else posted).
4000 BC: My thoughts and questions:
--Generally prefer to start in place (no guarantee of better stuff elsewhere). Stone was a good surprise.
--Build order: many on CFC say "worker first", but my instinct would have been warrior, three turns on 2nd warrior to size 2, then worker. Others say "grow to happy cap" before worker settler. With other leaders I've used, worker would have nothing to do now, but this game has farm and road techs at start. So I don't know which to do first...in the end, chose warrior (to explore/defend).
--Tech: I still have a "religion-centric" view. I will try for Hinduism (I usually get beat to Buddhism), and in this game, Priesthood is a more important tech for UB so maybe not as big a risk going that pathway. 20 turns to Hinduism. I suppose I should think about my mid- and long- range tech goals, but do they really matter? E.g. I will be getting/backfilling in basic techs. Or should I plan already e.g. beeline to Philosophy? Obviously, I'll need BW for my UU.
--Slider: I usually start at 100% research. Goody huts seem to give a bit of gold to sustain several dozen turns, and I typically don't run deficit until 2nd city.
--Plan: many on CFC say "have a plan" from the beginning. Who knows what is out there though? Again I like to build, so if I'm by myself great, but maybe Aztecs are nearby, and in maybe 2/3 games I've played Ethiopia has been a neighbor and always on my case.
--What else should I be thinking at 4000 BC?
(Also question re: posting. What is best file format for screenshots?)
Attachments
dalamb
Deity
@dmd175: It seems almost unversally held among people that play at higher levels that going for an early religion is almost always a mistake -- the non-mistake usually being some special goal the player has outside of normal play. Much better is usually to go for mining, bronze working, animal husbandry, and pottery in some order (I happened to go pottery first to get started on a granary ASAP but I suspect many went mining - BW).
Worker-first is similarly very very common at Noble; at higher levels I'm not so sure (and maybe someone more experienced can comment).
For screenshots, since you have a limited (though fairly large) amount of space at CivFanatics, some people like to store them at photobucket or several other places and reference them with IMG tags.
And welcome to CFC!
Worker-first is similarly very very common at Noble; at higher levels I'm not so sure (and maybe someone more experienced can comment).
For screenshots, since you have a limited (though fairly large) amount of space at CivFanatics, some people like to store them at photobucket or several other places and reference them with IMG tags.
And welcome to CFC!
dalamb
Deity
BC 4000 - 2200
BC 2200 - 455
BC 455 - AD 920
AD 920-1355
AD 1355 - 1540
Pause again -- out of time for a few days.
BC 2200 - 455
BC 455 - AD 920
AD 920-1355
AD 1355 - 1540
Pause again -- out of time for a few days.
Spoiler the War to not quite End All Wars :
I've put my questions/decisions in red to learn what others would do.
3840
--Creative: early expansion nice, but I feel this trait is useless in the mid- and late- game (Ive never used a Creative leader though). (Have played protective once, Churchhill I think, and didnt fit my playing style, but will try to keep in mind archery/gunpowder and walls/castles). Building walls and castles seems to boost soldier count, and thus indirectly keep AI from attacking?
3800
--Met Stalin (my buddy from prior games). So already, we have a neighbor who is aggressive and much too close for my taste (~9 squares separate our capitals?).
--Ive had good luck harassing Stalin in prior games, so maybe Ill just attack right away and kill his scout to preserve good huts, and hope to get a worker? His scout had looked out of reach of my warrior, but now in adjacent square. Since what I usually do doesnt work, I will try this strategy. Of course, I realize this is going to incur diplo penalties (if I kill off a civ before other civs know them, then no penalty though?).
--In terms of expansion, again havent yet explored anything but maybe expanding due south along the river (to connect 1st/2nd cities) and also expand toward USSR?
3720-3500
--Declared war. Killed scout. Stalin has ivory.
--Promotions: many people say hold promotion until you know what you are facing. I typically go along the combat route, but will pick woodsman as there is forest in Stalins boarders.
--Stalin only has a warrior. Also has dyes.
--Scout from Tokugawa finds me great.
--First warrior built. Capital is 6 turns to next growth and 7 to next warrior. I think Im going to let that build and grow to size 3 then build worker. What would others do? Keep building warriors to kill Stalin? I usually explore circumferentially outward for huts but this close start is going to mess that up.
3500-3000
--3440: Buddhism in distant land.
--3320: Founded Hinduism and revolted. Now which tech?
--3280: Anarchy over. Uruk is 8 turns to size 4, and 3rd warrior in 1 turn. So more warriors, workers, or when a settler? The 3F corn is providing growth so maybe go to size 4 and then worker/settler so will do more warriors to size 4.
--3240: Stalin has 3 dyes(!). But I have two warriors to his one, so next turn will roll the dice.
--3200: Lost both warriors. I know that was nowhere near enough attackers even versus one warrior, so it was dumb.
3000-2320
--2880 Size 4, three warriors headed to Moscow (not sure what we will find there).
--Check diplo: Stalin says worst enemy of me, also Hatshepsut (who I have not met; I have met Rome/Persia).
--2760: Moscow still only has one warrior defender (of course, Uruk has 0!). A worker is out and Ill try to capture it.
--2720: Moscow pops an archer, so I know I wont be taking that city
--2600: There are 4 barbarian archers just WSW of Moscow? Thats great, but I better get my defenses up. (just got the message: massive barbarian uprising)
--What tech next after BW? Can go for Hunting etc, or IW, etc?
--2520: Archers attack Moscow, knocking archer to 2.3/3. I took archer out with two losses and am facing warrior. City raider next turn, capture Moscow. Remaining leaders all cautious with me, and no one seems to have a negative point for attacking Russia.
--2440: Barbarians helped me otherwise I would not have been successful. Back to Uruk, I now need workers to work the copper and corn. Will have Moscow build a worker, since I have a warrior there (just as soon as I fogbust a bit around the city), and also Im sure all the huts are gone from the roving Japanese/Egyptian/Persian scouts I see.
--City placement: N there is deer/clams/wine/silver, S of Uruk there is a river but two mountains (and I need escort for settler).
3840
--Creative: early expansion nice, but I feel this trait is useless in the mid- and late- game (Ive never used a Creative leader though). (Have played protective once, Churchhill I think, and didnt fit my playing style, but will try to keep in mind archery/gunpowder and walls/castles). Building walls and castles seems to boost soldier count, and thus indirectly keep AI from attacking?
3800
--Met Stalin (my buddy from prior games). So already, we have a neighbor who is aggressive and much too close for my taste (~9 squares separate our capitals?).
--Ive had good luck harassing Stalin in prior games, so maybe Ill just attack right away and kill his scout to preserve good huts, and hope to get a worker? His scout had looked out of reach of my warrior, but now in adjacent square. Since what I usually do doesnt work, I will try this strategy. Of course, I realize this is going to incur diplo penalties (if I kill off a civ before other civs know them, then no penalty though?).
--In terms of expansion, again havent yet explored anything but maybe expanding due south along the river (to connect 1st/2nd cities) and also expand toward USSR?
3720-3500
--Declared war. Killed scout. Stalin has ivory.
--Promotions: many people say hold promotion until you know what you are facing. I typically go along the combat route, but will pick woodsman as there is forest in Stalins boarders.
--Stalin only has a warrior. Also has dyes.
--Scout from Tokugawa finds me great.
--First warrior built. Capital is 6 turns to next growth and 7 to next warrior. I think Im going to let that build and grow to size 3 then build worker. What would others do? Keep building warriors to kill Stalin? I usually explore circumferentially outward for huts but this close start is going to mess that up.
3500-3000
--3440: Buddhism in distant land.
--3320: Founded Hinduism and revolted. Now which tech?
--3280: Anarchy over. Uruk is 8 turns to size 4, and 3rd warrior in 1 turn. So more warriors, workers, or when a settler? The 3F corn is providing growth so maybe go to size 4 and then worker/settler so will do more warriors to size 4.
--3240: Stalin has 3 dyes(!). But I have two warriors to his one, so next turn will roll the dice.
--3200: Lost both warriors. I know that was nowhere near enough attackers even versus one warrior, so it was dumb.
3000-2320
--2880 Size 4, three warriors headed to Moscow (not sure what we will find there).
--Check diplo: Stalin says worst enemy of me, also Hatshepsut (who I have not met; I have met Rome/Persia).
--2760: Moscow still only has one warrior defender (of course, Uruk has 0!). A worker is out and Ill try to capture it.
--2720: Moscow pops an archer, so I know I wont be taking that city
--2600: There are 4 barbarian archers just WSW of Moscow? Thats great, but I better get my defenses up. (just got the message: massive barbarian uprising)
--What tech next after BW? Can go for Hunting etc, or IW, etc?
--2520: Archers attack Moscow, knocking archer to 2.3/3. I took archer out with two losses and am facing warrior. City raider next turn, capture Moscow. Remaining leaders all cautious with me, and no one seems to have a negative point for attacking Russia.
--2440: Barbarians helped me otherwise I would not have been successful. Back to Uruk, I now need workers to work the copper and corn. Will have Moscow build a worker, since I have a warrior there (just as soon as I fogbust a bit around the city), and also Im sure all the huts are gone from the roving Japanese/Egyptian/Persian scouts I see.
--City placement: N there is deer/clams/wine/silver, S of Uruk there is a river but two mountains (and I need escort for settler).
Attachments
2320-1360
--After Hunting take Mining for Quarry.
--I went with settler site #4, and there is a wheat just at where #3 would be so I need a city to take advantage of that. I usually would explore more before settling but was behind in this game with the warriors directed to one place.
--2160: Going to build Archer/Worker in Uruk. Hinduism spread to Eridu (river I guess).
--2000 Summary: There is gems near the wheat SE of Uruk so that may make a good city. SW of Moscow there is copper, which is near Hatshepsuts boarder; I wonder if I can cut her off from the copper with a city there. Uruk building archer/worker; plan for ? Stonehenge (for GPP, dont need monument with Creative). Eridu building archer. Moscow: worker then settler or archer/settler?. Tech: will try for monotheism (religion, but also to spread Hinduism and then adopt Slavery/OR). Calendar should be a goal tech soon for the dyes around Moscow (?)
--1680: Get Monotheism and Judaism, revolt to Slavery and OR. I will take AH and Pottery next, then Meditation (for UB).
--1640: Stonehenge built somewhere else. There is banana SE of Moscow so thats where the next city will go to get Wheat, Banana, and Gems (and hopefully fresh water). Tech at 60% to breakeven.
--1360: Well, messed up with not getting the wheat at Eridu. So I will take the city farther SE for banana, horses, gems, and leave spices/wheat closer to Uruk. Will take a city SW of Moscow on silk (which I dont like doing, but) to get ivory, copper, wheat and hopefully hem in Egypt. Screenshot.
Right now I would say I am quite deficient in workers, in defense (one archer per city, two warriors out), and infrastructure (would usually have some cottages, etc). Havent spread religion and I should, since none of the four neighbors have one yet.
1000 BC Summary:
Status:
--Three cities, one settler on its way.
--Ranking: First at 401, f/b Caesar 268, Hatshepsut 251, Cyrus 209, Tokugawa 208.
--Diplo: All cautious to me, mostly cautious among themselves. Hat and Toku annoyed at each other.
--Demographics: GNP 3, MFG 2, crops 1, soldiers 4, land 1, pop 1, approval 5, life exp 5
--Uruk top city; Thebes has Stonehenge.
Builds:
Uruk: archer, archer (to happy cap), then settler/workers. ? Wonder, ? missionaries
Eridu: settler, archer
Moscow: ? any value to spreading secondary religion?
Plan:
1. Should hook up copper and then take out Egypt or Japan
2. Wonder? GW, HG
3. Spread Hinduism
4. Expansion: no need to settle city north of Uruk, land with most of those resources already taken with Uruk culture. Marble far NE near Japan which I would like to take. Have to explore W frontier.
--After Hunting take Mining for Quarry.
--I went with settler site #4, and there is a wheat just at where #3 would be so I need a city to take advantage of that. I usually would explore more before settling but was behind in this game with the warriors directed to one place.
--2160: Going to build Archer/Worker in Uruk. Hinduism spread to Eridu (river I guess).
--2000 Summary: There is gems near the wheat SE of Uruk so that may make a good city. SW of Moscow there is copper, which is near Hatshepsuts boarder; I wonder if I can cut her off from the copper with a city there. Uruk building archer/worker; plan for ? Stonehenge (for GPP, dont need monument with Creative). Eridu building archer. Moscow: worker then settler or archer/settler?. Tech: will try for monotheism (religion, but also to spread Hinduism and then adopt Slavery/OR). Calendar should be a goal tech soon for the dyes around Moscow (?)
--1680: Get Monotheism and Judaism, revolt to Slavery and OR. I will take AH and Pottery next, then Meditation (for UB).
--1640: Stonehenge built somewhere else. There is banana SE of Moscow so thats where the next city will go to get Wheat, Banana, and Gems (and hopefully fresh water). Tech at 60% to breakeven.
--1360: Well, messed up with not getting the wheat at Eridu. So I will take the city farther SE for banana, horses, gems, and leave spices/wheat closer to Uruk. Will take a city SW of Moscow on silk (which I dont like doing, but) to get ivory, copper, wheat and hopefully hem in Egypt. Screenshot.
Right now I would say I am quite deficient in workers, in defense (one archer per city, two warriors out), and infrastructure (would usually have some cottages, etc). Havent spread religion and I should, since none of the four neighbors have one yet.
1000 BC Summary:
Status:
--Three cities, one settler on its way.
--Ranking: First at 401, f/b Caesar 268, Hatshepsut 251, Cyrus 209, Tokugawa 208.
--Diplo: All cautious to me, mostly cautious among themselves. Hat and Toku annoyed at each other.
--Demographics: GNP 3, MFG 2, crops 1, soldiers 4, land 1, pop 1, approval 5, life exp 5
--Uruk top city; Thebes has Stonehenge.
Builds:
Uruk: archer, archer (to happy cap), then settler/workers. ? Wonder, ? missionaries
Eridu: settler, archer
Moscow: ? any value to spreading secondary religion?
Plan:
1. Should hook up copper and then take out Egypt or Japan
2. Wonder? GW, HG
3. Spread Hinduism
4. Expansion: no need to settle city north of Uruk, land with most of those resources already taken with Uruk culture. Marble far NE near Japan which I would like to take. Have to explore W frontier.
Attachments
waggertribe
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2010
- Messages
- 3
first noble game. found it rather easy to be honest which surprised me.
Spoiler :
dalamb
Deity
Folks, please put anything specific to the game, like opponents and map details, in spoilers.
dmd175:
I usually play on immortal.
And I build worker first in almost all circumstances.
The only real alternative is if you have a costal capital and start with fishing, in that case you can go for a workboat.
The WORKER is the most important unit in civ4, and one need to pay strict focus on them.
Oh, one other very special case when you don't go for worker first.
I usually play on immortal.
And I build worker first in almost all circumstances.
The only real alternative is if you have a costal capital and start with fishing, in that case you can go for a workboat.
The WORKER is the most important unit in civ4, and one need to pay strict focus on them.
Oh, one other very special case when you don't go for worker first.
Spoiler :
Thanks everyone for the analysis and feedback on my early game.
1. Worker first/initial build order: worker -> worker -> then? At the outset, I assume it makes no sense to go after huts (AI will get them anyway). But also aren't you at the mercy of barbarians or early AI rush? Does the higher level AI not do early rush? Also, one of my weaknesses has been being behind in soldiers/military strength, so I'm trying to ensure as I revise my strategy I pay attention to military.
2. Traits: For monarch-immortal levels, what new traits might I consider using? I'm asking thinking that for fun many of the better players just try new civs/traits for challenge, but I'm not there yet. Prior to this game have really only used Org/Fin/Ind, but creative did prove beneficial in the early game. Imperialistic sounds like it may have a good early game boost also. And I could stand to wean away from Ind to break wonder addiction.
Status summary, with questions:
1. Worker first/initial build order: worker -> worker -> then? At the outset, I assume it makes no sense to go after huts (AI will get them anyway). But also aren't you at the mercy of barbarians or early AI rush? Does the higher level AI not do early rush? Also, one of my weaknesses has been being behind in soldiers/military strength, so I'm trying to ensure as I revise my strategy I pay attention to military.
2. Traits: For monarch-immortal levels, what new traits might I consider using? I'm asking thinking that for fun many of the better players just try new civs/traits for challenge, but I'm not there yet. Prior to this game have really only used Org/Fin/Ind, but creative did prove beneficial in the early game. Imperialistic sounds like it may have a good early game boost also. And I could stand to wean away from Ind to break wonder addiction.
Status summary, with questions:
Spoiler :
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Worker-worker only makes sense if you have BW to chop the second one. It is more attractive when playing India because it takes fewer moves. The normal opening, though, is worker-warrior(s). Your capital city should generally grow until it is working most/all of its high-yield tiles. On this map, that means size three. Once you reach this point, it should go worker-settler or, more often, settler-worker. The most common number of warriors that get trained at this stage is two but one or more might be correct.
The AI never does an early rush. It was deliberately programmed this way. Even at the highest levels, you can get a second city out before the barbs attack. In short, you can neglect military early on.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
As I recall, the right number is 80. It's a lot more than 15 in any case.
)Thanks everyone for critiques and insight.
Next game:
--Early build: workers more and earlier
--Closer attention to early worker and tile management of capital
--Slavery: I whip alot but watched a youtube by tsinha and realize I could stand to whip even more.
--Will wean myself off of early religion and pay more attention to early worker/warring techs.
--Would people be ok if I resurrected one of the older NC threads and posted in it?
Spoiler :
Next game:
--Early build: workers more and earlier
--Closer attention to early worker and tile management of capital
--Slavery: I whip alot but watched a youtube by tsinha and realize I could stand to whip even more.
--Will wean myself off of early religion and pay more attention to early worker/warring techs.
--Would people be ok if I resurrected one of the older NC threads and posted in it?
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