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Nobles' Club CLX: Gandi of India

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by dalamb, Nov 8, 2014.

  1. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario
    The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

    Our next leader is Gandhi of India, whom we last played in NC CXXXI; we last played the Indians under Asoka in NC CXLVII. The Indians start with Mysticism and Mining.

    • Traits: Gandhi is Philosophical and Spiritual. PHI is one of the most powerful economic traits as it doubles your Great People generation; later in the game it also doubles the production speed of Universities which is more situational but can get you a quick Oxford University. SPI is also a very strong trait, allowing you to switch civics without any turn of Anarchy as penalty; this is extremely powerful for diplomatic manipulations. SPI also gives you cheap Temples which is good for Cultural victories (you need several in most cities) and for spamming Temples of the AP religion to benefit from the +2:hammers: bonus.
    • The UB: The Mausoleum, a Jail with an extra +2:). It can be a good warmongering building, since the happiness boost synergizes with the Jail's -25% war weariness to reduce :mad: from prolonged war.

    • The UU: The Fast Worker, a Worker with 3:move: instead of 2. Some people consider this one of the strongest UUs because it lets you start improving or chopping a mine or forest on the same turn you move there, is available immediately at the start of the game, and never goes obsolete.
    And the start:

    Spoiler map details :
    Inland Sea, standard options, chosen opponents.
    Spoiler edits :
    Regenerated until we got an AI we could swap with to get certain characteristics in the surrounding area. Rerouted the NE river slightly to water the 2nd corn. Changed our initial spot to a Plains Hill.
    Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:
    The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 160 Gandhi Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
    Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
    In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

    For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
    Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

    1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
    2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
    3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
    4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
    5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
    6. Exit the worldbuilder.
    7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
    If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.
    Spoiler huts and events :
    Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    Kingston, Ontario
  3. sinimusta

    sinimusta el capitano

    Joined:
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    Finland
    Ooh a ridiculous start! 2 wet corn, gem for money and stone for wonders. Settle in place or on stone? Stone loses a floodplain.
     
  4. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

    Joined:
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    6,680
    Since the settler is already on a PH and there are more river tiles when settling in place, settling on stone isn't quite the no-brainer that it normally is. Is that a peak 3S?
     
  5. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario
    I'm planning an OCC space race, which is why I picked this particular map. It would be nice if a few people were willing to try, but OCC is not to everyone's tastes and will be significantly harder than a normal game.
    Spoiler :
    I based what I was looking for on the advice in this set of articles. The first of those suggest regenerating until you get a PH start with an agricultural resource, lots of rivers, and stone. I saved some regenerations by hunting for an AI with almost those characteristics and swapping us, then changing our starting location to a PH. Then I thought very hard and rerouted the NW river slightly to water the second corn; sorry to people for whom that was too much of a good thing.
    Spoiler AI characteristics :
    I also picked leaders who don't DoW at Pleased, with Peace Weights +8 or +9, and mostly low unitprobs (2-4); I had to pick one with unitprob 6/10 though to get the other 2 characteristics without duplicating a civ.
    It's much less modded than the Peter OCC game at the start of the third cycle, which means it will be harder.
    Last time we got a start with PH stone nearby, someone plaintively moaned that I hadn't moved us one tile. As it is I guess there's a somewhat interesting choice.
     
  6. NobleZarkon

    NobleZarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter

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  7. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Kingston, Ontario
    Fixed. The usual goof of selecting a file and forgetting to click "upload."
     
  8. MegaLurker

    MegaLurker Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
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    Dat start.
     
  9. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    I'll have a shot at OCC Space Race as well.
     
  10. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    Advantage of OCC: You can play it in a night.
    1906 Monarch OCC Space Race.
    Spoiler :
    Hatsheput was 6 turns away from victory, and diplo victory was also a risk.


    Spoiler Techs :
    Tech:
    Agriculture
    Masonry
    Meditation
    Priesthood
    Writing
    Alphabet
    (Pick up BW and Wheel from trade)
    (start CoL)
    (Oracle Aesthetics)
    (Pick up Poly and pottery in trade)
    Literature
    CoL
    Mathematics
    Music
    Civil Service
    (Iron Working from trade)
    Paper
    (Currency from trade)
    Education
    Drama
    Gunpowder
    Construction
    Machinery
    Engineering
    Chemistry
    Printing Press
    (Trade for philosophy)
    Scientific Method
    Liberalism - Biology (1020 AD)
    Nationalism
    Constitution
    (Monarchy in trade)
    (Feudalism in trade)
    Democracy
    Fishing (!)
    Sailing
    (Trade Calendar+Compass)
    Optics
    (Trade Astronomy)
    (Trade Guilds)
    (Trade Banking)
    Economics -- Missed by a turn :(
    Physics
    Replaceable Parts
    (1360 AD, receive news that Wang Kong built Great Lighthouse... Trade corporation from him 5 turns later)
    Steam Power
    Communism
    City is so big that it works the plains riverside tile, decided to pop Animal Husbandry to see if there are horses there after all
    Assembly Line
    Fascism
    Electricity
    Industrialism
    Steel
    Railroad
    Combustion
    Plastic
    Computers
    Superconductors
    (Internet: Monotheism, Theology, Divine Right, Military Tradition,Medicine, Hunting,Archery,Horseback Riding,Rifling,Artillery,Rocketry)
    (Internet: Fission)
    Fiber Optics
    Fusion
    Genetics
    Satellites
    (Start GA here)
    (Internet: Refrigeration )
    Composites


    Spoiler Builds :

    Worker
    (Stonehenge)
    Pyramids -- 2200 BC (Argh, forgot too switch!)
    Warrior (mp)
    Library
    Stonehenge -- 1680 BC
    Oracle -- 1400 BC
    Granary
    Research
    Great Library -- 1725 BC
    Aquaduct
    Hanging Gardens -- 450 BC
    Confucian Temple
    National Epic
    Hindu Temple
    University
    Oxford
    Forge
    Theater
    Globe Theater
    University of Sankore -- 860 AD
    Research
    Sistine Chapel
    National Park (Only 1 worker, making preserves is slow, built another one somehwere here)
    Buddhist Temple (AP)
    (Statue of Liberty)
    Observatory
    Statue of Liberty -- 1390 AD
    Levee
    Christo Redentor -- 1605 AD
    Industrial Park
    Iron Works
    Buddhist Stupa (Forgot about the hammer bonus here)
    Three Gorges Dams
    The Internet
    Laboratory
    Apollo Program (switch scientists to engineers)
    Thrusters 5x (2-3 turns each)
    Engine 2x (4 turns)
    Start GA here
    Cockpit (2 turns)
    Casings (2,2,3 turns)
    Life Support (3 turns)
    Casings (2,2 turns)
    1892 Launch - 1906 Win.


    Spoiler GPs :
    1560 BC: GE,Settle
    1120 BC: GP,Settle
    700 BC: GS, Academy
    475 BC: GA (Music) Settle
    400 BC: GS, Settle
    150 BC: GS, Settle
    25 AD: GS, Settle
    225 AD: GE, Settle
    450 AD: GS, Settle
    660 AD: GS, Settle
    900 AD: GS, Settle
    1100 AD: GS, Settle
    1240 AD: GA :(, Settle
    1340 AD: Physics GS, Settle
    1390 AD: GS, Settle
    1460 AD: Communism spy, settle
    1530 AD: GG (Fascism), settle
    1545 AD: GS, settle
    1595 AD: GS, Settle
    1645 AD: GS, settle
    1700 AD: GA, ugh, keep for golden age during space ship
    1760 AD: GE, settle
    1808 AD: GE, settle
    1828 AD: GE (Fusion), settle
    1836 AD: GS, settle
    1824 AD: GE, settle
     
  11. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario
    Noble, Normal, NHNE, no barbs, no tech brokering, OCC
    1872 Space victory. I pretty much followed the path in the first OCC advice link I mentioned above. I suspect the difference in level was why I was a little earlier than dutchfire.

    I've abandoned several long games over the last few months; it was nice to finish one in 2:29 of play.
     
  12. Mikehendi

    Mikehendi IDHEOMHRN

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    461
    Played a peaceful 3-city culture victory on Monarch.

    3 cities is also manageble in a single night :)

    Won in 1570AD. Built Stonehenge like a deity in 3200BC :lol:

    Will post a summary tomorrow
     
  13. dmd175

    dmd175 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    Mountains
    I have never done an OCC but would like to follow what you guys did and try it. Amazing production on the space program, fueled by the settled GPs.
    However, I thought that for Oxford and Stupa you needed 5 Unis/3 temples, respectively. How does this work for OCC?
     
  14. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario
    OCC changes the prerequisite to just 1. And lets you have 5 national wonders instead of 2.
     
  15. Mikehendi

    Mikehendi IDHEOMHRN

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    461
    1570AD Cultural victory (3-city-challenge), Monarch, Normal speed

    Spoiler :



    I wanted to to a 3 city culture challenge for some time now, and this map seemed perfect to try. Basically you need a wonderspamming / artist running hybrid capital, and 2 good cottage sites with some production. Inland sea often has lush green riverside terrain, which makes this a good map for it.


    Report:

    Spoiler :
    With this specific game in mind, I settled on the stone: 3h city tile, instant access to stone after masonry, and 2 minable hills before BW outweigh losing 1 floodplain, we have 2 wet corn already. Also, there's 2 rivers going up north, so settling 1S gives more room for a possible better cottage city up north.

    Techpath was quite different than usual:

    Opened with Masonry, building a 10-turn worker followed by a 10-turn Stonehenge! (3h city tile + 3h plainshillforest + stone = 12h/turn!), completing in 3200BC! (getting me a super early GP, and also the earlier you get it, the earlier the culture doubles)

    Built a couple warriors to spawnbust next.

    2nd tech was Agriculture. Now that the worker can improve 2 corn, 1 gems and 2 mined hills, I continued on the religious techpath with

    Polytheism (prereq for literature's nat. epic)
    Priesthood (for oracle)
    Monotheism (went for missed the religion but missed it by 3 turns :( )
    Writing (prereq)

    Theology from oracle in 2120BC and converted to christianity. Both neighbours where still without religion, I want the AP, the happiness and the ability to build with ORG REG.

    Meditation, so I could bulb Code of Laws in 1920BC with the Great Prophet I got (in from Stonehenge, and got a double holy capital (but I never built gold multipliers, so it didn't matter)

    I switched to Org Reg and Caste system (never used slavery this game, didn't even have BW yet),

    Darius was closer then I thought, and had already settled in a way I couldn't settle the ideal cottage spot in the north anymore. In the end it didn't matter, as my cities stagnated around size 14ish anyway, so the less-than-ideal spot was good enough. Plus, it turned out later there where horses in the BFC :D

    I quickly settled Bombay in 1800BC, and Vijgaranijanna in 1440BC, settled my first great artist at darius' border to keep control of my BFC, and went on to build the pyramids while teching more of the worker techs, Wheel-pottery-BW-AH,

    Pyramids were completed in 900BC (bit shaky), and I went on building the AP while teching towards philosophy through aesthetics (Parthenon and trade) and drama, getting Philosophy in 375BC.

    Techwise I was miles ahead, so I went Music through Literature (for the discount, I held off building the nat. epic until I was done wonderwhoring and could switch to run max. artists.

    Side-note: I've been reluctant to tech trade as mansa-like as I usually do. There was no need for selling techs for money, and I kept monopolized techs to myself, to keep the AI as backwards as possible. Only in the final turns they would catch up.

    Founded Islam in 225AD, followed by Civil Service (likely should have researched CS earlier, I postponed it because no science - no academy, but the hammer boost would have been helpful)

    Started whoring more wonders, like Sistine, MoM, even got Hanging Gardens well in the AD's, spiral minnaret to keep positive gpt.

    Last couple techs I self-teched were Nationalism (for Mausoleum-powerd Taj Mahal and Hermitage), paper, education, and libbed printing press in 1000BC for extra commerce output in my cottage cities.

    Built the Taj Mahal in 1020 and switched to pacifism/free speech/universal suffrage.

    Due to the Church of Nativity, 2 settled Great Profits in the cap and 2+2 GA's settled int the other cities, I was able to rush-buy Nat. Epic after putting 1t into it.

    I finished by self-teching gunpowder for defensive unit building, before I cranked up the slider to 100% for the rest of the game (while maintaining a positive gpt due to resource trades and those 6 settled GP's). I generally don't build culture, it could shave 2-3 turns off in a 60-70 turn timespan, but I'd rather build a stack of units to defend my cities in case of a you're-winning-the-game war.

    Then Hatshepsut built the GLH in 1040AD :lol: I guess the 'mids date was safe after all

    The rest of the game I popped 4-5 GA's and 2 GP's (odds for GA where about 67% all the wile). Prophets were used for a 2nd golden age and one of the other shrines out of spite.

    Cities were pretty equal culture wise, expected turns to legendary within a 2-3turn timespan. I begged some gold of each AI (all pleased despite different religions), and when I was close to 42000 culture in each city, I pulled the trigger and bombed 7 GA's (3-2-2), and won 2 turns later :cool:


    Recap:

    Each city built the same buildings:

    Spoiler :



    Late builds were Walls-castle for the extra trade route (and then went on to trade for economics some turns later... oops), and barracks for building better quality defenders. Would have skipped the aquaduct, but couldn't get/trade for enough health otherwise.

    All wonders were built in my capital:

    Spoiler :




    Cities on winning turn:

    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :



    Thanks to DaLamb and the other Noble-club hosters for hosting another fun game!

     

    Attached Files:

  16. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Łódź, PL
    Emperor, OCC, Raging barbs, normal speed, NHNE
    Won space colony 1957 AD
    Who will take immortal OCC?

    Spoiler :
    Raging barbs to prevent AIs building early wonders, partially it worked as barbs took 1 hatty city, but also pillaged my quarry.
    GWall, Mids, Oracled CS. No Globe until end of game to avoid pollution (I had 3 initial great people Great Spies :(

    Silly me, forgot to swich to OR soon after monotheism, build a couple of wonders including MoM without OR hammer bonus :D
    I also forgot about enviro bonus to preserves, so never adopted environmentalism :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:

    All free great people mine except Fascism

    Also fairly early AP for additional hammers. Corps did not give much, but enough to work 2 more scientists. 5 GAges including Taj
     

    Attached Files:

  17. georgjorge

    georgjorge Deity Wannabe

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    862
    Deity without Huts, to 1120BC:

    Spoiler :
    Can I win this game with only three cities peacefully settled (as I don't see any more desirable spots despite a decent amount of land)? Let's try this...





    Beeline Code of Laws via Priesthood after Writing. First two Great Persons were Spies, both of which were settled. Hopefully getting some Scientists as well to bulb bulb bulb away to Liberalism...


     

    Attached Files:

  18. dmd175

    dmd175 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Mountains
    @dalamb and @dutchfire
    thanks for the idea, I tried my first ever OCC
    Spoiler :
    played emperor, Hatty launched in 1896

    there was a giant buddhist love fest that she started, with at one point 55% of world in buddhism and everyone in that religion except me and darius (both christian, because he demanded I convert).

    My city became a beast, and I ran 100% science the whole game.
    great people: settled 3 spies, 1 artist, 7 sci, 2 eng, 1 merch. 5 great prophets built shrines for J/I/Conf/Chr/Hind (--this obvi contributed to the lovefest but still hatty spread buddhism faster than I've ever seen a religion spread.

    for tech I was ahead in classical, and later med/into ren periods:
    Spoiler :

    won economics, won liberalism...however I fell behind after that and could not keep up in tech race. part of that was the very abnormal lovefest. the first declaration was washington on WK 1765 AD. :confused: however, luckily no one declared on me, I built one one warrior the whole game. and even refused 2 demands of hammy and 1 darius.

    the main OCC issue I had was lack of healthy resources: because of sickness I kept forests until late, and I realized in analyzing my game I had 9 lumbermills. that is probably the reason I fell behind in tech - e.g. most if not all of them should have been towns, and that may have kept me more in the tech race.

    that being said, rather fun, and a manageable civ game in terms of time.

    Here's Delhi
    Spoiler :


     
  19. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Location:
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    dmd175

    Your mistakes
    Spoiler :

    -Gandhi is philo - use the power of free specialists - beeline biology and have fun with forest preserves. Cottages are the way too, but why not use Gandhi's traits to maximum? Early National Park means no health concerns and no happy concerns. I had choped forest only on hills, all the rest was for preserves
    - do NOT trade with AIs, keep them backtech as long as possible. With 1 city you definitely dont need a lot of techs, just beeline CS, then Uni, then Bio
    - Holy Shrines? What for? O had only 1 in my emp game to benefit from +2H from ApostolicPalace. some prophts settled, 3 prophets for golden ages
     
  20. May Day 10

    May Day 10 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    what is "OCC"?
     

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