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Nobles' Club CLXX: Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by vandermerwe, Apr 25, 2015.

  1. vandermerwe

    vandermerwe Butt of many jokes

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Wales
    The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

    Our next leader is Sitting Bull of the Native Americans, whom we last played in NC 143. The Native Americans start with Fishing and Agriculture.



    • Traits: Sitting Bull is Philosophical and Protective. A unique combination; at least the much-maligned Protective works well with…
    • The UB: The Totem Pole, a Monument which gives archery units +3 experience points. Add a barracks and the free trait promotions and you get some seriously tough defenders out of the box.

    • The UU: The Dog Soldier, an Axeman which doesn’t need metal to build and has +100% rather than +50% against melee units, but which only has 4 strength. Handy if you’re stuck without copper or iron, but if not it’s no better than the base unit.

    And the start:

    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

    Spoiler for map details:

    Spoiler :
    Wheel… on which every civ starts on its own mini-continent, linked by narrow ‘spokes’ and with an uncolonised central ‘hub’. Standard size, all options default.

    Spoiler :
    Map edits:
    Added a strategic resource to one AI that would otherwise be without.


    Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:
    Quote:
    There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:
    • 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
    • 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
    • 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
    • 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
    • continent if applicable, etc)
    • 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
    • End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)
    This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

    We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number of stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

    Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.
    The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC number Leader Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
    Spoiler for what's up with specific difficulties:
    Spoiler :

    In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

    For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

    Spoiler for how to add techs to the barbarians:
    Spoiler :

    Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
    Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
    By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
    Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
    Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
    Exit the worldbuilder.
    Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

    If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.


    Spoiler for huts and events:
    Spoiler :
    Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.


    And here (hopefully) is the set of WB save files:

    View attachment nc170.zip
     
  2. vandermerwe

    vandermerwe Butt of many jokes

    Joined:
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    Reserved... also to repeat a suggestion from the Bullpen that this leader & map might be particularly suitable for an Always War game. I think it kind of is... the WB saves don't have that option pre-selected, but you can of course enable it via the Custom Scenario options.

    PS this is my first attempt at a NC map: I hope it works and I hope it's enjoyable. But be gentle if not...
     
  3. Qactus

    Qactus Romani ite domum

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    Wow, with stone and food it's really a wonderful start for a PHI leader.
     
  4. Mizar

    Mizar IM

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2007
    Messages:
    356
    Imm., epic, 2900BC
    Spoiler :

    Settled in place, enough food with 2 food resources and 2 FP. Teched AH early then mining-BW route, the UU will take care of all barb issues.
    Got a scout from hut and some gold, lost scout in narrow landbridge but got a fair amount of map knowledge out of it.



    Pink dot gets crab, gold and later pig. 1S would get all first ring but the pig is covered with jungle anyway, so can't work short term and this site eventually gets the northern FPs.
    Yellow dot gets horses and enough food.
    There are couple future sites that have 1-2 food resources and eventually 4 calendar resources which makes the later tech a priority.
     
  5. Chakasulu

    Chakasulu Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Hello all. Loooong time lurker. Particularly of noble's club. I've played some of the older games and read through the threads as I progressed up to my current level of play which is Monarch. My main motivation to join in now is to help keep Noble's club alive; to hopefully be able to give back a little to something that has been such a help to me.

    I've also been pretty comfortable at Monarch, so maybe this game will determine if I'm truly ready for emperor play or not, since I usually avoid playing leaders like Sitting Bull.
     
  6. Chakasulu

    Chakasulu Chieftain

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    4000 BC: I decided SIP. Moving my warrior onto the stone didn't show me anything interesting. I'm thinking AH -> Mining -> Masonry so I have everything I can hook up the most important stuff right now. I figure hunting can wait. A camp for the Elephants isn't an early priority right now.

    I'm thinking maybe a culture victory as a goal? It's been ages since I tried one but PHI is good for that. I've never played protective, but I'm hoping maybe it will be useful to just turtle up with promoted archers and build in peace? The stone there makes me awfully tempted to go for the pyramids; could be pretty useful for my victory goal, but I know it's not essential either.
     
  7. diegovelasco45

    diegovelasco45 Casual civ4 emperor lvl

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    Location:
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    Emperor: SIP. Great starting location although you can't get decent coastal to use the fishing starting tech right away with the crabs

    Spoiler :





    I went for AH>HUNTING (wanted a scout for the huts)>MINING>BRONZE WORKING>WHEEL>>ALPHABET. I think I could have done better but w/e

    I got my first great scientist (euclid) at the same time that I got alphabet. Changed writing for pottery with Alexander and for Misticism with Elizabeth.

    I'm gonna get early code of laws for caste system(philosophical) and courthouses. Then expand, later on I will decide the victory condition.

     

    Attached Files:

  8. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    Did not know stone could be one a desert. I'll try always war immortal, and will probably get totally destroyed, might then try always war on emperor.
    Does anyone have hints for always war. My idea would be to go for archery early and put blocking archers everywhere.
     
  9. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    Choke your opponents as early as possible. Build few Forts once they are available. With this start I'd also love to get the Mids, but not sure that is possible with AW.

    Good luck :) .
     
  10. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    Play a level below what you normally play on for AW. Even a more friendly AW like this where you can block your land off with 1 city is still difficult.
     
  11. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    Ugh, keeping your economy afloat in always war is difficult. No trade routes, no resource trades, no gold from selling techs.
     
  12. civfanchambers

    civfanchambers Prince

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    Try watching Sulla's Lp always war as Babylon. Very interesting viewing. Just don't make Sulla's mistake of playing with no jungle. Without jungles you will be short on happy resources.
     
  13. Qactus

    Qactus Romani ite domum

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    ...no trade missions! Whenever I played Sitting Bull, I always liked to spawn a quick Great Merchant with PHI and upgrade all those highly experienced archery units...
     
  14. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    Gotta go for scientist bulbs, and things like Rep and Merc are very powerful given the settings. Pyramids would be really nice to get here with the stone.

    Edit: GW and spies are better than scientists, especially early.
     
  15. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    Not sure if TMs really don't work, walking with a GM through enemy territory is possible. I once lost a GM because civ declared war on me and the GM didn't get thrown out but remained directly besides m enemies capital. Not sure if entering a city is possible, but should actually.
     
  16. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    Spoiler :
    In my initial attempt, I went for Stonehenge (Totem Poles everywhere!), the Great Wall and Pyramids. That was possible on Emperor, did delay growth though. Then popped 3 Great Spies...

    I played pretty defensive, which worked fine, but I think sending out attacking parties against at least one AI is useful. This AW game requires a different plan than my usual Lib->Military Tradition approach...

    I was using my GGs to promote archers/longbowmen, but maybe I'll settle them in my next attempt, GG defenders are great, but they do die eventually. Especially when the AI starts bringing stacks of catapults. I will focus more on horse archers in my second attempt.

    Guilds+Banking should also be a higher priority than usual, I suppose.
     
  17. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    @ dutchfire:

    If you make GG-defenders, think about promoting them to Drill four, then you won't have problems with Catapults because of 80% immunity to collateral.
     
  18. Qactus

    Qactus Romani ite domum

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    For those interested in Always War, this is a great read. It is the last thread in a series of Deity OCC always war games with consecutively harder settings played by ScorpionK. There's a lot of great info mainly on how to steal techs most efficiently.
     
  19. Chakasulu

    Chakasulu Chieftain

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    640 BC Monarch/Epic
    Spoiler :
    I didn't choose the AW war option. I had the mids by 1800. Only 2 cities at the time so I'm wondering if if I'm falling behind a bit.

    640 BC I've got 4 cities going. I just finished Currency. Just started researching COL. I have a GE, but not sure what to do with him just yet. Could go for GL, but not sure if I should maybe save him for something more directly useful for a culture victory.

    I tried to make Hatty and Lizzy my besties, but they now have different religions. I have none atm, but if I chose one to cement a friendship I jeapordize the other. Izzy and Lizzy share religion, but I've already pissed her off a bit by refusing two demands. Maybe it's not too late? Those three are top three in power. I am fourth with Alex on the bottom. Alex and Izzy hate each other.



     
  20. Chakasulu

    Chakasulu Chieftain

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    1822 AD Cultural Victory

    Spoiler :
    Ok a few centuries later I had to ditch Elizabeth for Greece. He didn't hate me, he shared Buddhism with Isabella and they were neighbors, so I made a commitment and switched to Buddhism. I ended up eventually totally depending on defensive pacts with those two and long distance for survival. France and Egypt were pretty powerful, but they would have to get through Izzy and Alex to get to me. They could go through Elizabeth, but that gave me just one chokepoint to defend which I already had beefed up because Elizabeth had thrown some knights against my wall of promoted X-bows.

    I also built the apostolic palace. Never got the chance to win with it, but it stopped one war against me which was nice. I also used it to liberate a city from France, as well as end trading with Egypt, my only two true rivals. (Elizabeth had no friends and was crippled by Alex fairly early on.) Some day I should put some time towards learning how to use the Apostolic palace, but I hear it takes a lot of challenge out of the game, so I haven't been motivated to just yet.

    I had some sloppy play in tech order and city building, but overall I pulled off my intended strategy which was to turtle up behind promoted archery units and focus on my main three cities. Thanks to Godotnut's guide for the path to victory!
     

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