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Nobles' Club CLXX: Sitting Bull of the Native Americans

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by vandermerwe, Apr 25, 2015.

  1. Mizar

    Mizar IM

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    Imm, epic, up to 1AD
    Spoiler :

    Nice game so far.
    Met the neighbors in rapid succession, especially Alex close by might become an issue.
    My early tech goal was calendar to raise the happy cap fast.
    Stone was too tempting so had to get the Pyramids which also helps with happy and has good synergy with several employed scientist.
    I used SB 's only real trait to get an early academy and plan to bulb along the Lib/MilTrad. way.

    Liz to the east has founded Hinduism and built the shrine, all in all I consider her my first target, while I want Alex on on my good side.
    The central region is kinda funny on this map, narrow landbridges connecting the civs, looks like a multiplayer map.
     
  2. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    One aspect of this map makes it a bit tougher for AW...

    Spoiler :

    There are no hills on the spokes anywhere, so blocking cities founding on these will not get the extra defensive bonus.
     
  3. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    @ chakasulu


    Spoiler :

    1. Well done.
    2. Parthenon is better than the GL imho, as it pushes all specialists and it's very powerful to run them in various vities, and to not only have 1 GP-Farm. In a cultural victory it's even a lot better, some say it's even necessary. This is because GSs don't help in culture games except for (double) bulbing Edu.
    3. There's a very very good AP-guide in the Strategies subforum.
     
  4. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    @ mizar:


    Spoiler :

    Don't tech Calendar on higher difficulties, AI always researches it early. Better researh currency or CoL to get Buro earlier.
    Also: If you have happiness-problems even with having the Mids, your cities are to big. Did you alread build Forges, Barracks and Libraries in the cities that reached the happy-cap? If not, whip them, their bonus is usually higher than working the tiles, infrastructure helps you get Lib faster and also helps with Cuirrassier construction.
    2. With being PHI, you can build an Academy + still bulb Edu if you run specialists from multiple cities. Even bulbing Philo with a 3rd GS is possible after having Edu.

    Additional tip to reduce population: whip HA and create a GM to upgrade them once you have Cuirrs.
     
  5. vandermerwe

    vandermerwe Butt of many jokes

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    @Izuul

    Spoiler :
    I guess that's a feature of the Wheel script, as there were none either in any of the half dozen or so maps I generated before settling on this one. I did think about adding some, but SB's longbows fortified in hill cities are arguably overpowered: I didn't want to make it too easy...
     
  6. Chakasulu

    Chakasulu Chieftain

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    Spoiler :
    And that's exactly what I did. I resisted the temptation and saved him to build the Parthenon because I would be focusing on Artist specialists and didn't want to risk getting beat. I built no other wonders in between pyramids and parthenon.

    However, one thing I did do was after getting writing I whipped out a library in the capital and ran two science specialists in the capital so that I could get that first GS for an academy before committing to artists. In fact, this is something I do in almost all of my games which are usually conquest/dom. Am I overvaluing the importance of an early academy?
     
  7. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    @ chaka:


    Spoiler :

    Sixtine helps greatly in culture vivtories, I hope you built that one too. State Religion Temples and Monestaries can give something line 20 CPT when built early, that's 3 Cottages! O_o

    And yes, you overvalue the early Academy. In culture games where research stops after Lib Nat, bulbing Edu has a much higher benefit than an Academy.
    In other games it depends very much. In Space Races with an average capital i. E. Bulbing Edu is stronger too, because it enables you to build Oxford earlier. I've also already played numerous games where I didn't found an Academy at all. The only types of games where an Academy is really useful are the Cuirrassier rushes that everyone plays here, but there are more options to play civ than only Cuirrs.
     
  8. misterfilmgeek

    misterfilmgeek Warlord

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    I've never played in the NC, but I want to get a bit better, so I'll give this a go and ask for advice. I started another thread so that the advice can be spoiler tag free and be as frequent as necessary so as not to clog up this thread. I'll post updates at the usual intervals on this thread, though, in case anyone wants to just read the summaries. I'm a winning Monarch player and iffy on Emperor, so I'll start this on Emperor. If you want to help/learn/lurk, jump over there.
     
  9. Chakasulu

    Chakasulu Chieftain

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    Spoiler :
    Thanks for the input. I've been watching some let's plays and I can see that I'm definitely too aggressive with the specialists early on. It might be one reason i have been struggling with my jump to emperor. Because I do often do cuirs (or oromos because Zara is one of my fav leaders) it's a weakness that is only now manifesting itself as I try to win other ways.

    Yes, Sistine was something I built and placed value on. For the culture game then it would be better for my to have my first scientist sleep until I'm ready for Edu?I'll try that.



    Also I recently stumbled across your post in the thread asking for alternatives to Bureaucracy. The one where you explained how city specialization is mostly outdated save a very few specific exceptions. I think that advice single handedly contributed to my first Emperor win this past weekend. Granted I played Darius, but still you "untaught" a lot of what I had learned from the war academy. As useful as they were when I was trying get past Noble I really wish some of those articles could be taken down. A lot of the advice I pick up from you and a few others like Izuul and Pangaea isn't necessarily more complex for new players than what is up there IMO. Is there any way to petition to change any of that?
     
  10. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    That is actually happening as we speak. There will be some type of review. Old articles will probably be taken out, and some new ones added. Some of them are outdated and "wrong" now, which can't help new players.
     
  11. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    Go into the “Site Feedback“ forum, there already is a thread from me that could use a bump ^^

    CFC is currently going through major changes with their internal staff. I guess once those are through, either I'll be allowed to update the War Academy or someone else will do it by my guidance. :)
     
  12. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    Gz on your 1st emperor win btw., and regarding city specialization, I've already written a new article, which will go online during the course of the week, so you may wanna look for it :) . It handles especially the exceptions, but also explains normal city specialization again.
     
  13. Chakasulu

    Chakasulu Chieftain

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    @Seraiel: I will. I've read both illustrateds. Definitely look forward to the third!

    Also I did as you requested and spoke up in your "update the WA" thread.



    @misterfilmgeek: I'm right where you are brother. Pro at Monarch. Lost my first three on emperor before finally winning a sloppy fourth game. I've been following your game as well.
     
  14. Gargantua_FR

    Gargantua_FR Chieftain

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    Hi, I decided to give this map a try and here is a short report for the first round (up to 1000 B.C.). I played on Prince level, epic speed.

    Spoiler :

    I settled in place after having considered moving 2S for coastal access and one more clam. Second city east claiming clam, pig, gold and four floodplains ! I met Alex south and Elizabeth east. I built Stonehenge in 2125 B.C. Then got a third city north east of capital near pig and horses. Built Pyramid in 1050 B.C. shortly after having settled the great Prophet from Stonehenge. Techwise I went Animal Husbandry, Bronze, Myst and Masonry for Stonehenge, Pottery, writing, math for more efficient mids chopping then iron working. I am now halfway through Alphabet.

    State of the world :
    Spoiler :

    3 city a fourth settler ready going on the northern coast for rice/pig/iron, Stonehenge, Pyramids. 50 :science: per turn. I think this start is very overpowered with stone for philosophical leader, two early happiness and a lot of food ressources. I wish I started on monarch.




    Probable future plan :
    Spoiler :
    With that much land available by peaceful settling I don't see a point in warfare before late medieval. I may continue wonderspamming. Hangings Garden and Great Library look attractive. Or with this crazy capitol, a beeline to civil service may be a good strategy.

     
  15. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    @ Gargantua: You researched about any tech you could before going foe Alpha, that's why you still don't have it at 1000 BC, which is very late imo. The more you go io the levels, the stronger the AIs will research. If you then still reaearch everything instead of skipping all that's possible to get early Alpha which allows you to trade foe everything, you will be far backwards and have problems of catching up.

    Also, settling the Prophet is imho not as strong, as if you had prepared for Theology bulb.

    Stobehenge is discussable with SB, I still wouldn' have built it though as those early resources are very valuable, and Elephants are better than XBows anyhow.

    Hanging Gardens is a good idea I didn't think of though.
     
  16. Gargantua_FR

    Gargantua_FR Chieftain

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    @Seraiel : Actually in Prince I don't think I have to beeline Alpha. I did a few times only to find out that no AI was willing to trade (except a strong unfair one such as Alpha for meditation or sailing, AIs almost never want to trade Iron working for example unless they are friendly). For now I still only know two opponents so my trading possibiliies are very limited.

    Stonehenge was indeed discussable but I think that I have a lot of land to settle which means I can catch back later on the settling race. For example there is still room for three good cities between me and Elizabeth (no way I can get more than two before her though). And I don't get your comment about Elephant and xbows, how is it related to Stonehenge ?

    For settling the prophet, may be I did not think enough about it. I saw only one possibility when he appeared so I did. Still I am at least three tech away from being able to bulb theology.

    Anyways, thanks for the feedback
     
  17. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    @ Gargantua:

    Can be, that my advice doesn't help on Prince, but I also wrote “on higher difficulties“ .

    Regarding Stonehenge: I thought you built it to have Totem Poles in all cities, which give 3 or 4 XP to Archery units (best Archery unit sre XBows) . SB is famous for his XBow rushs, because he is PHI and can create a GE from a chopwhipped Forge to bulb Machinery) .

    It btw. sounds, as if you could raise difficulty ;) .
     
  18. Gargantua_FR

    Gargantua_FR Chieftain

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    @Seraiel : Yes, as I wrote, in this map I think I could have managed monarch level easily. But this is a very good start in my opinions. Usually in more standard settings (read more crowded) I really struggle with Monarch.
     
  19. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    When you're more boxed in, you got to skip on WWs, skip on as many techs as possible to get Construction early and try to get at least 15 units 'til 500 BC.

    This is very similar to what I wrote before, so don't neglect that advice, as those will be the things to get you in the game on Monarch, and also higher levels.
     
  20. Gargantua_FR

    Gargantua_FR Chieftain

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    I pursued the game up to 600 AD (epic prince):

    Spoiler :

    I wanted to try sort of mech beeline for an early crossbow attack on Lizzy, mainly by curiosity. Yes, drill 3 crossbowmen are useful, better than elephant because the AI would produce spearmen eventually if you rely on mounted units. It was not a proper beeline though as Lizzy was not that close so I needed to found two more cities. Plus with heavy SE, caste system was very helpful, and courthouses were mandatory in English conquest to avoid post-war economic crisis. Also, I was generating GS, so I had to self-research mechanics. Btw, I don't think there is a pressing need to hurry as long as you strike before AI get feudalism.

    I manage to trade for construction, so a few cats were helpful as well. I met Izzy, Nappy and Hatty, the three remaining leader.

    I got a second GP, bulbed Theo for 8xp crossbow aout of the gates. Then got 3 GS, first built an academy, second settled (missclick) and the third is waiting for edu bulb.
    I declared war around 300 AD with ~15 xbows which could have been too late (for longbow purpose) but was not. And Liz had only 4 cities which is surprisingly low even for prince difficulty. She was destroyed in 500 AD.

    Then I went for CS. Now I am thinking about a detour to litt for GL and Epics, since no one know it. Then, en route to liberalism ! Alex in the south is probably the next target.

    Btw, I am surprised that AIs seem to developp slowly (even for Prince) despite the very fertile territory. I am now completely dominating th game, no way I can not win this one.

    State of the world pictures :

    Spoiler :


    recent English conquests,


    narrow land bridge connecting my territory,


    our core land,


    and demographics.


     

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