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Nobles' Club CXLIV: Napoleon of the French

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by elitetroops, Mar 21, 2014.

  1. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

    Our next leader is Napoleon of France, whom we last played in NC XC; we last played the French with De Gaulle in NC CXVIII. The French start with Agriculture and The Wheel.

    • Traits: Napoleon is CHArismatic and ORGanized. CHA means +1 :) in each city and an extra :) for monuments and broadcast towers; this can help a lot with early city growth. Combined with ORG, which cuts your civic upkeep cost in half, Napoleon becomes quite a strong rexer that can grow a big empire with big cities early.
    • The UB: The Salon, an Observatory that gives a free artist. This is not a very strong UB, though it might prove useful in some cultural victories.

    • The UU: The Musketeer, a Musketman with two moves instead of one. This can be a good stack defender that can keep up with mounted attacks.

    And the start:

    Spoiler map details :
    Custom continents, 3 continents, high sea level, opponents picked
    Spoiler edits :
    Despite high sea level the map script makes huge amounts of land. I shaved of quite a bit, mostly from arctic areas.
    Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

    There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:


    • 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)

    • 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)

    • 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)

    • 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other continent if applicable, etc)

    • 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)

    • End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

    This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

    We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

    Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

    The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC_CXXXVII_Churchill_Noble" (or Monarch, if you want the AI to start with its usual Archery bonus tech, or Immortal for Archery+Hunting, or Deity to add Agriculture). This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

    Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

    For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

    Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians: :
    1 Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
    2 Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
    3 By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
    4 Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
    5 Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
    6 Exit the worldbuilder.
    7 Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    Reserved.
     
  3. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Looking forward to this, Warrior 1NE and if nothing revealed then settle 1W to avoid wasting a green hill I think will be my plan.
     
  4. Hurricane Jane

    Hurricane Jane Chieftain

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    Spoiler :
    Playtested it and just ragequitted on some turn 150 because I basically ran the map. I had like, 8 gold and 4 dye with 5 cities. (didn't count but it was just too much, also 3 dye in bureau cap was fairly.. good) That's just not funny. I even outpaced van Orange pretty easy from the point where I didn't have Alpha (went Calendar, then Currency, then Music because of Dye, +1 TR looking more important than tech trading and a GA for some more gold + TGL with Marble) When I teched Alpha just gave Aesthetics and Drama to Willem to hold on to a demanding tech lead. He must be very easy to wipe out with MT/Gunpowder for Musketeers and Cuirs. Or maybe a culture plan because of the early monuments I did build and all the religions Willem spread to me (Buddh, Hindu, Confu, Christianity and Taoism are all inside my borders, and I obviously already have Free Religion) But I was somewhat late on that, but the only other easy option looks to be the Space Race)

    Well, I'm going to replay it anyway on Prince. Maybe that will be more interesting for me. I'm basically running noble pretty well if I'm having decent starts. (Or really ridiculous starts)
     
  5. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    I have time to give this a whirl.

    Looks a good commerce capital. Will move warrior and if I find nothing great probably settle in place. Commerce over hammers. Plenty of food to whip here so hammers are probably not an issue for this capital.
     
  6. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    @ HJ

    Spoiler :


    It's noble for a reason. The Ai start with a warrior and a settler. On higher levels they start with more techs, a worker and archers. 5 cities by 150 turns seems a bit low expansion wise. Certainly don't base your expansion on the AI.

    Get the corn and pigs worked. Grow to size 3 after worker and get that settler out before 2500bc. Then aim for third city by 1500bc or before. 4th city 1000bc. 5th 700bc? Then keep expanding to 7-8 cities.

    Yes certainly grab AH early here. Pottery early too looks good here.

    Then whip, whip whip using Cha happiness.

     
  7. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    @HJ:
    Spoiler :
    Maybe try Monarch then. ;) Seriously meaning it actually, the jump from noble to prince is not that big.

    But where did you find 8 gold? :confused: :confused:
     
  8. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Spoiler :
    On Noble maybe gold popped up from mining hills?? Hmmm.
     
  9. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    Spoiler :
    There's not 4 dye either, so I assume it was an exaggeration. But yeah, it is quite an easy map probably. I only did a quick playtest on IMM to 1AD to see how the AI develops on other continents. I played very fast and sloppy and only grabbed 2 gold, western neighbor got the rest, but still I had a nice tech lead come 1AD. That should have rung a bell...
     
  10. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Spoiler :

    Yeah start wise pretty sweet. 2 gold easily accessible. 3 dyes. A strart that just screams cottages. Plus 3-4 other decent city sites that can be grabbed at a slow pace. The only likely issue is barbs but this seemed quite manageable to me.

    Not even attempted HA rush here. Looking to marble wonders in a bit.
     
  11. Hurricane Jane

    Hurricane Jane Chieftain

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    Spoiler :

    I had 8/9 cities by 120 turns.. that was the limit of good spots. van Oranje had the land blocked of by then and the other spots I still could settle were pretty poor. But I had maybe 3 or 4 cities and my cap working all the gold and dye tiles.

    I think I went something like AH -> Mining-BW -> Pottery -> Mysticism (because of CHA Monuments) -> Writing -> Maths -> Fishing -> Sailing -> Calendar

    Think I settled my second city pretty early, maybe after worker - warrior - warrior. Then another worker, granary, monument whip, settler seemed okay.

    From there on just whipped Monuments to keep up with Willems CRE. Had to go Drama quickly because of that as well (and it was pretty easy whippable because of Dye)

    And yeah, I know it's -just- noble. Maybe I'm finally growing out of it. I'm having more of a problem with the lategame than with the early game though. I really can't make up my mind for VC's, and I'm just plain bad in cultural victories...Conquest/Domination goes well as long as I don't have to go overseas, and Space Race/Diplo is okay for me, but somewhat slow.


    @ET
    Spoiler :

    I had 6 gold 4 dye, to be exact. Still very decent. And sooo many Flood Plains as well.
     
  12. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    @HJ
    Spoiler :
    If that's the case, then you must have popped a gold. There's only 5 on the continent... I guess you could have 4 dye if you grabbed the one far west.

    I'm a bit curious how you ended up settling a 3 dye capital. What were your moves and reasoning on T1?
     
  13. Hurricane Jane

    Hurricane Jane Chieftain

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    @et

    Spoiler :
    I really wanted to grab both the corn and the pig, so I thought there were 3 choices for me, SIP, 1W or 1SW. Didn't really think about settling east because of losing both corn and a decent flood plains tile for my cap. (although I could pick that up with another city, but I like at least 2 food resources in my cap if I can get them) So I moved my warrior 1SW on the hill tile to check out if moving was okay.. and I found 2 more Dye. That was reason enough to go 1SW with my Settler.

     
  14. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    @HJ
    Spoiler :
    Good explanation. :) Yes, 2 food in capital should always be a minimum. If you move warrior SW, then settling SW is certainly a valid option. Not sure if I would do it though. 1SW loses a turn and blocks us from settling coastal cities. 1W has more river tiles for cottaging. For a fast opening I think 1W should be stronger, but in the late game 1SW would be a very strong all-round cap with lots of both commerce and hammers.
     
  15. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    1730 BC - Prince - NHNE

    Spoiler :
    Moved Warrior 1NW and nothing to see so settled 1W, looks like that was the right decision.
    Biggest issue here is the barbs, lost two warriors to Bears, because of this I missed the Copper and self teched IW d'oh! Still have 3 cities up now and a fair amount of warriors out fog busting.



    Met WvO and Stalin so far, wonder if that's it for this part of the world, if so may make the future path a bit tricky!


     
  16. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    @ NZ

    Spoiler :

    Why did you not grab the pig/gold city second? I had both resources in my inner ring. 1S of the gold seemed perfect. Grabbed loads of flood plains and had food for growth.

    This would of allowed you a second gold city north of the first with deer, 2 flood plains and marble.

    I don't like your 3rd city placing. I left that spot. Eventually split it in 2 settling on copper and 2 tiles above. Wanted both fish. You have lost both fish resources now. 12 food gone.

    You will want a city 3 south of your gold city eventually. You really can't give up the pigs and green land. Also a city near the pigs east of your capital.

    Overall settling cities needing border pops early on is a bad move.

    Barbs were a slight issue to me. I generally have very few units in cities early on. Apart from MP units at size 4 if needed.

    Don't be afraid to chop some forest in your capital. Such a waste and would of really helped getting 2-3 more fog busters out. Plus for getting 4-5 cottages settled.



     
  17. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    @Gumbolt

    Spoiler :
    Thanks for the feedback. I found city placement a real puzzle on this one, to get the two fish you have to settle on both the corn and the copper :sad: I don't like settling on FPs either unless I get a very strong city from it. Yes you're right regarding my 3rd city - wasn't a good choice but really nothing is in that corner :(

    Might have another go at this.
     
  18. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Spoiler :


    The logic on the pig city was speed. Do I want to wait 10 turns for a border pop and growth? I also didn't want a second city too far from my capital. I could of just grown slowly on the flood plains but I wanted to whip this city for builds too.

    I settled on the copper and 1 east of the sheep which with a border pop grabs the fish too. Maybe not ideal.

    Early cities are always about grabbing food or resources needed for a rush. I would only ever settle with no resources in inner ring if creative or the city was amazing for later on.

    You'll still win with that start I have no doubt. By 1500bc I had most builds like granary, monument and maybe 1 library whipped in my 2 main cities.

    Oh I ignored that corner till my 5th/6th city. The 2 spots around the capital are too good to ignore. East and south. Shared cottages with capital always helps.
     
  19. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    @Gumbolt

    Spoiler :

    If you settle on Copper you have the issue with needing a border pop to get food though don't you? Where did you put the other city, I'm a bit confused as 2 tiles above where I settled misses the fish and if you settle on the Copper you can't settle 2 tiles north of there?
     
  20. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Spoiler :
    Yes my copper city needed a border pop for fish. Tis why I left it till 5th/6th city. I only settled it as Dutch went fist mode so i needed some axes.

    The city 1 east of the sheep was able to work sheep/corn before a border pop. You might even share the corn. The sheep city is the better city of the 2.

    Pends how urgently you need the copper.
     

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