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Nobles' Club CXLIV: Napoleon of the French

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by elitetroops, Mar 21, 2014.

  1. TheSunIsDark

    TheSunIsDark Settled Great Scientist

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    The great Mayan city of Teotihuacan
    Spoiler :
    No, I mean I used one warrior to neutralise him. In Noble they do start with a warrior or a scout, depending on whether they have hunting.
     
  2. TheSunIsDark

    TheSunIsDark Settled Great Scientist

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    The great Mayan city of Teotihuacan
    Spoiler :
    But he grabs all the land ridiculously quickly thanks to his traits. The UU also allows fast settling of islands in the middle of the ocean. He would be my rival for space, probably (if I hadn't choked him)
     
  3. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,327
    Location:
    UK
    @ Thesunisdark

    Spoiler :
    Why are you so worried about the Dutch?? They are not imperialist. Not a huge war monger. You had room for 8-9 cities before the Dutch even settled near you. Regarding the islands, an early work boat and galley always pays off.

    The only reason Willem is taking over your games is because you let him. Choking the Ai is a well used tactic on here. So is worker stealing. Although on this start you had so much food, commerce resources that it really wasn't needed.

    Sure Willem had 10 cities by the time I had Cuirs but he was defending was axes and recently upgraded longbow. He was pretty backwards this game.

    In a decent game there is no reason why you can't beat the Dutch to a 3rd city. If you become blocked in you always have the war option usually. Failing to expand and grow your empire can often be punished by the AI.



     
  4. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5,467
    My take on fogbusting:
    Spoiler :

    (Dotmap is to show spawnbusted area, not planned city locations..)

    4 warriors proved enough. I have it all covered until Willem's border in the west. Any barb that decides to attack someone will head for the closest city, so any barbs spawning in the northwest should head for Willem.

    I took a slight risk with the SE area and didn't have it fogbusted until my second borderpop took care of it. Willem's scout was hanging around there for a while taking care of it for me and by the time I would have had a warrior to send there, I was only 5 turns from the borderpop. Also got lucky that my only guy who faced archers was the southwestern guy on FPH. He's now WM2, so nobody is coming through there anytime soon.
     
  5. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    4,725
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Gibraltar
    Spoiler :
    Interesting to see people finding this easy, I found this quite tricky especially city placement. WvO is an interesting neighbour, a good techer but a backstabber, likely to found a religion so sharing that can help.
     
  6. learner gamer

    learner gamer King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    657
    Noble / normal to liberalism:

    Spoiler :
    Moved warrior 1SW to see if moving in a southerly direction would gimp a coastal city. No seafood + loads of dyes meant settling 1SW. Teched AH > mining > pottery > BW. Settled city 2 for the NW pigs / gold / FP and then marble for city #3. Settling pigs in the outer ring of city #2 left open what I think is the map's hidden gem of a city: pigs + loads of hills for a potential HE site (which I was rather late in settling).

    After BW, tech went to masonry and on to priesthood. Oracled aesthetics and, after teching writing > maths (for chops), currency, calendar & CoL, went up the literature / music line. Peacefully RExxed, explored the map and wonder built. Fortunately popped 2 early GS – one for an early academy, another bulbed philosophy and also managed to found Confucianism to boot. Good times....vive la France! :D

    Now that liberalism > military tradition is in, the plan would be to use the (2nd in game) GE to insta build The Taj, revolt into free religion and nab a great person or two. Objective would be to build / whip spies, cuirassiers & musketeers during what would be a 24 turn golden age (from the Taj, MoM & burning a GPerson) - and go beat up on someone.


    Unlikely to continue because the game's already clearly won – but many thanks for the map @elitetroops; IMHO, it's a good one. :goodjob:
     

    Attached Files:

  7. learner gamer

    learner gamer King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    657
    @NobleZarkon:
    Spoiler :
    IMHO, the capital is best settled 1SW after revealing dyes from moving the warrior. City #2 is then best settled for the pigs / gold / FPs. As it happens, I settled it with pigs in the outer ring, because that leaves open a potential HE site S, SW of the pigs with plenty of hills that I can't see gets settled any other way. After settling city #2, my guess is that city #3 then depends on the level at which you're playing. A site containing marble may be open on the lower levels which opens up various wonders; on the higher levels, the gamer may want to look to settle the pigs / corn / clams to the east (as a GP farm), the double gold by the lake and then the sites involving copper (and / or horses) for some military defence.
     
  8. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
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    22,327
    Location:
    UK
    Dragging on to 1470ad.

    Spoiler :


    Alex has put up quite a fight. Lost far too many units really. He must have spammed a further 30-40 more units. He is down to 6 cities now and his vassel also has 3 cities. He does have grenadiers now.

    Ottoman and an unknown AI left after that. Need to be careful Ottoman empire does not reach too far ahead techwise.

    I have over twice the number of cities the other AI have now. Case of playing out till the win.
     
  9. MegaLurker

    MegaLurker King

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    718
    I tried this game on Deity and it was too much despite the strong opening:

    Spoiler :
    Great capital and room for 12 cities blocked off. 4x gold, 3x dyes, gems on the island claimed. No problem with barbs because I settled the first city for the horses. No diplo problems.

    But then the Hindu lovefest on the adjacent continent leads to a Alex with Stalin as his peacevassal and a tech rate I just can't keep up with. Not a single war. Willem only went Free Religion allowing me to finally switch to hinduism myself in the ADs. Just couldn't keep up.


    So I'll have my revenge on Immortal. To 100BC:

    Spoiler :
    I decided I didn't want to share the continent with Willem. He is a good trading partner but I'd rather have all that land to myself and be able to switch to the adjacent continent's religion ASAP. So HA rush it is, always overpowered on Immortal and Willem is one of the softer targets in the game.

    Tech path was AH->mining->BW->writing->hunting->hbr->archery->aesthetics. Charismatic makes for fast woodsman II warriors, which makes for an early triple worker steal from Willem. He takes peace when I am able to produce a couple chariots. The buildup is relatively leisurely with such good land around. I settle 5 cities of my own (settled, in order: pigs/golde, horse/river to the SW, deer/gold/marble, 1N3E of the capital). I only attack in 475 BC:
    Spoiler :



    I have about 10 HAs and a couple chariots coming from two directions. It gives me paths to do the following. In two more turns:
    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :



    I even take the 25% hit for attacking across the river to take it one turn sooner, with 2 fewer archers who were then killed in the open. Another 4 turns of healing and moving:
    Spoiler :



    At this point we're able to make this sweet trade with the Ottomans without a single turn into Alpha:
    Spoiler :



    One of the other benefits of going early HAs or elepults. Another six turns:
    Spoiler :



    And then peace for techs:
    Spoiler :



    Willem Oracle'd Metal Casting for me, essentially :goodjob: In the meantime we got lucky with this demand:
    Spoiler :



    And got the extra diplo bonus for changing into the religion we were going to change into anyway. The tech screen 1 turn before I finish currency:
    Spoiler :



    The empire:
    Spoiler :



    10 cities, with planned space for another 9.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Choggy

    Choggy Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2012
    Messages:
    351
    To 860AD (Lib)

    Spoiler :
    Yeah..the world just got a lot bigger once I'd traded some maps around. Hmmm....

    Bulbed Lib for MT to build Cuirrs for WvO under a Taj GA, his 14 citiies will take some beating though - State Property is going to be a high priority tech once I've killed him. And looking at the size of some of the other civs I reckon I'm going to be at war for a long time and it's going to involve a lot of Cannons.

    This is turning out to be a really good map!
     
  11. rfcfanatic

    rfcfanatic Mercantilist

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    726
    Location:
    In isolation
    Played this with Monarch/Normal/NHNE settings. It was quite a relaxing game. Despite vassalizing every remaining AI, the game didn't end with Conquest, but a Domination victory in 1890 AD.
    Spoiler :
    Spoiler screenshot :
    Score:
    Spoiler score :
    The beginning of game was quite peaceful. Settled in place. Researched AH for Pigs and Pottery for Dye cottages. What's good about Dye towns is that replacing them with plantations doesn't hurt - the commerce yield from Dye plantation is not worse than the commerce yield from Dye town. It's like a natural development from cottage to plantation.

    Managed to block Willem's eastward expansion. The screenshot from 1050 illustrates the greatest extent of the peaceful expansion. 12 cities:
    Spoiler screenshot :
    Although I had a chance to Cuir-stomp Willem, I decided in favor of Cav-stomp. It started around 1400 AD and ended a little bit earlier than 1600 AD.

    Soon after the assistance of my Cavalry was needed in a war against Stalin. Before he fell, he got vassalized by Mehmed and I was at war with Mehmed too. But 2 cities from Mehmed was enough to convince Mehmed to capitulate.

    Next target - Huayna Capac. By then, I had Tanks. 2-3 cities and he capped too. The rest of the game was mostly Tank war:
    Spoiler screenshot :
    Hannibal, the most advanced AI who could build Tanks as well, was relatively easy foe to capitulate. Alex had a large army of Cavalry and Grenadiers - but no match for Tanks and Gunships.

    Yes, I agree that this starting spot provided means for a strong capital city:
    Spoiler Paris :

    elitetroops, thanks for the map!
     
  12. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,327
    Location:
    UK
    Plowing on. 1600ad Updated.

    Spoiler :
    Long drawn out game.

    Greeks eventually vasselled to me.

    Unfortunately his vassel switched to Ottoman who declared. He landed an inland fleet near a small captured russian city of mine. 7 pult, 4-5 chariots, knights and some mace. I eventually destroyed this stack after 2 turns. I had 15 or so cuirs nearby. I have seen no real stack of his to date. Maybe none with so many cities.

    I have nearly 38 cities and still 34 or so left to capture.

    Finally finished carthage off. Ottoman has lost 2 cities now and should lose a 3rd soon. Wasn't ideal having to split off 12 or so units to fight the other end of the continent.

    Incans have 17 cities. Getting a bit bored now. I may cheese out and finish this off. I am essentially landing 6-7 new units each 2 turns or so and have all greek cities now whipping units. Ottoman should eventually fall with no overall stack.

    The AI is a tad stupid. It builds air ships when it should build grenadier.



    Up to 1600ad.
    Spoiler :


    Okay slowly fighting the Ottoman war. He is down to 10 cities. I have captured 5 so far. 5 more and he should vassel.

    The Russians are down to their final ice city.

    I am 20% short on land and quite tired. There are still 28 cities out there. Maybe Ottoman might vassel when Russians fall. I suspect I need a ceasefire soon as I may have 50+ cuirs but they are scattered over the map. I may need to take out Incas too to win this. Yeah you may need many hours to roll over this map.

    No one has RP yet tech wise.


    Up to 1640ad
    Spoiler :


    2-3 turns ceasefire did the trick. I massed up 40-50 cuirs between two stacks and rolled over his 3 mian cities including his capital. 7 cities left and he will lose another main city next turn. Close to 52% on land now. Need to whip some settlers and crank up the culture soon.


    Map thoughts.

    Spoiler :
    The Ai have way too much land for this to be a quick game. Adds certain challenges. Overall if you get a strong tech lead the Ai will fall but it just takes time to get there. The chances are you will get that tech lead easily.
     
  13. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
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    22,327
    Location:
    UK
    1670 and 138279 score. Domination win.

    Spoiler :
    Left ottoman with one city and razed final Russian city. Settled 7-8 new cities to make up land area required for domination. 1 turn 100% culture and job done.

    Incans might as well not of been in the game really. They were behind on tech and ultimately their land was not needed.

    I had 58 cities when I won.

    Overall cuirs rolled up the entire map. The Ai were a bit slower this game as they all over expanded and built too many units really.


    Thanks to Elite for bringing this game. Bout time I played a game out. :)
     
  14. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5,467
    Well done Gumby! :goodjob:
    Spoiler :
    Yes, I figured Incas wouldn't play a big role in a military victory, but when I saw them isolated I thought it would be interesting to see what effect they have on the game. Mainly by denying the player early wonders (they have marble and stone) and also by grabbing an early religion making the warmonger continent perhaps a bit more peaceful. If Incas grab 2 of the first 3 religions, then the game can become really hard, which might be what happened in MegaLurker's deity attempt... Incas also have potential for a really strong economy with Colossus and GLH, but apparently isolation is just too much of a handicap for any AI to overcome. I did consider giving the option to contact the southern continent by workboat, but decided to leave it the way it was.

    Regarding the amount of lands, this mapscript is quite silly. This was high sea level and I seriously deleted a lot of land. Most players would originally have had room for 2-3 cities more. I didn't check, but it felt like the normal size maps created with custom continents have as much land as a large size fractal or pangaea map...
     
  15. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
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    22,327
    Location:
    UK
    Spoiler :

    Actually Dutch got bud on my game.

    Hindu to Greeks who also pretty much took out 4-5 of the Russian cities.

    Incas got Jud and conf. Wonder wise SH/ Collosus and Sistine for early wonders.

    Carthage got GLH and Mids. Although they only had 2 cities all game.

    Oh Ottoman got Oracle. Although I ignored Oracle completely. Went 1120bc so very easy to beat that date.
     
  16. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5,467
    @Gumby
    Spoiler :
    How the heck did Hannibal only have 2 cities? Didn't he settle the island to his west?

    In my first test HC got Hindu and Jud, but on another test he didn't get any of the 3 early. How he manages to miss those being the only one to start with Mysticism is beyond me...
     
  17. TheSunIsDark

    TheSunIsDark Settled Great Scientist

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    The great Mayan city of Teotihuacan
    My other game was on another computer, so:

    Spoiler :
    I used a warrior to worker-steal from WvO. It then won a 50% battle against his warrior to keep the worker. I settled a city to grab the two gold :smoke: then realised that I wouldn't have enough food to work both pre-Biology! Axe-rushing him, adopted the other continent's Confucianism and currently brokering to get out of a small tech disadvantage
     
  18. Hurricane Jane

    Hurricane Jane Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2014
    Messages:
    18
    Spoiler :
    In my first game Willem had all three early religions... I still don't know how that could happen..
     
  19. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
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    22,327
    Location:
    UK
    Spoiler :
    Share the gold site with the pigs to get to size 3 and then use farms?


    @ Elite
    Spoiler :
    I suspect the island had 1-2 barb cities. I think Alex eventually grabbed all of these. Carthage was rather nerfed this game in term of land.

    Carthage and Incans were just spectators really. See how other games fair.

    To be fair to Hynac he was doing no worse on techs than the other AI. When Ai expand they often tech much slower.
     
  20. TheSunIsDark

    TheSunIsDark Settled Great Scientist

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    The great Mayan city of Teotihuacan
    Spoiler :
    Bad placement... 1S of one gold, 1SE of the other.
     

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