1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Noble's Club CXLVII - Asoka of the Indians

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by TheSunIsDark, May 2, 2014.

  1. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    6,819
    Pretty interesting map. Played IMM up to 425 AD.

    Spoiler :

    With all the forests and slow AI pretty much any and all early wonders are possible, and some can go at ridiculously late dates.

    I opened with Hunting > BW and settler at S3. Unfortunately most of the river network does not connect to the capitol here, so no trade routes in 2nd city for awhile. BW didn't show copper anywhere that i had explored, and i didn't especially feel like going for Archery either. Since i was some-what concerned about barbs with all of the forest and wasn't sure just how big the map was, i went Masonry next and chopped out TGW.
    Spoiler :


    After that i went for TW to get cities connected then Fishing > Pottery for some commerce. A little while later though i discovered this city spot grabbed it ASAP. Tons of forests + lots of food + Masonry + stone = chicken pizza! OK, maybe not. Definitely chopped out the Mids, even managed to get a little over 100 fail gold from it in another city. I already had some cottages down in places i probably no longer needed cottages with the Mids, but whatever, other cities can use them.
    Spoiler :




    First great person was a spy, no surprise there. I figured stealing from Mansa might be good here so i didn't mind the spy. If infiltration doesn't look good later I can always use him for a golden age. You can also see I've started the Oracle. With the AI being so slow i figured why not give it a shot. CoL would be a really big deal here, so definitely worth going for. A few turns later that was successful and nabbed CoL with a 750BC Oracle! hah
    Spoiler :



    I basically just ran specs and developed my land for quite some time while teching Math > Construction > HBR. Once i got a sufficient stack i attacked De Gaulle. His first city went down easily, but the 2nd was slightly more formidable. I lost a good handful of cats taking both cities, but nothing else, and he was ready to capitulate as soon as i finished Feudalism.
    Spoiler :


    I held off on that long enough to grab Paris at which point he was willing to toss in Philo, so it was definitely time to end the war and move on to somebody else.
    Spoiler :


    A quick trade for Machinery followed, and i was also happy to see him 10T from Engineering. I left him with his GLH + Colossus city in hopes that he would finish it in a timely fashion. I also have zero coastal cities and just 1 lake, so not much point in taking those anyway.

    I've changed my mind about infiltrating Mansa. He's pretty slow in this game, i guess because of all the forests. I'm going to attack him next and likely capitulate him very easily since he's Mansa Musa and that's just what he does. Meanwhile I'm gonna settle a trap city for Gandhi 3W1N of my old capitol and infiltrate him instead. It would be better if my old capitol was still my capitol for better discount on trade missions, but this is the best i can do atm. He has Lit + Drama + Music and is actually teching fairly well, so this seems much more useful than Mansa. I also have 2 spies now (and used a GE on the Hanging Gardens), after missing out on 2 GS with pretty decent odds. No academy for me it seems, except the one i captured in Paris which will make an awesome GP farm with Caste.
    Spoiler :



     
  2. blunderwonder

    blunderwonder Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    312
    @izzual Whats a trap city..? I assume it has something to do with your spy's but how will you gift a city thats so far in your borders to someone else..? Curious how many workers some of you guys had with the unusual map script

    I may play this one cause im kinda bored, ive seen parts of the map now, but i doubt it will make any difference as I already checked on what these maps were like.

    the great wall is neat.. I usually hate spy GPs, but since ive begin making at least 1 spy each game, maybe it could be interesting.
     
  3. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    6,819
    The further a city is from your capitol the more it costs to run an espionage mission in that city, so a good trap city is one that is as close to your capitol as possible, but doesn't interfere too badly with your own cities. Your culture present in a city will also lower espionage mission costs, so that's another reason to put it close. A city has to be within a certain distance of another AI city for them to accept it. I think it's like 8ish tiles.
     
  4. FlyingSwan

    FlyingSwan King

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    620
    emporer/normal. Space Victory (eventually)

    Managed to get all the religion spread and started my GA in 1180ad,this lasted for 48 continuous turns(or it may of been 60).Bulbed a lot and was easily first to Lib,but waited a bit and took Steam power,deciding against MT and rifling to try for an early space race with the decent land I had after the war.

    View attachment NC CXLVII AD-1480 Lib steampower.CivBeyondSwordSave

    And that's where the problems started...

    Spoiler :
    once industrialism was in I found that I didn't have aluminium,and that there was only ONE source on the WHOLE map...

    Ghandi had it,but before I could deal with him I got DOW from Mansa.No problem-I had Machine guns against his cavalry-but it did delay me a fair bit.

    In the meantime Gandhi had 1 city with legendary culture,and two in the 30,000.Time to go to war.

    View attachment NC CXLVII AD-1872 panic stations!.CivBeyondSwordSave

    View attachment NC CXLVII AD-1884 operation get ghandi....CivBeyondSwordSave

    even after taking the nearest culture city to the alluminum it wasn't enough to get it in my cultural borders.I ended up in a long war because I had to capture his other culture city and capital.he also Had Tokugawa as a vassal.

    I was still only facing rifles/cavalry vs my tanks,marines,bombers,aircraft carriers,paratroopers etc,etc.So was lot of fun.

    Just as I was thinking about trying to capitulate Gandhi(Toku had broke free and I had made peace with him)Mansa musa declares war again with Monty as his vassal.

    Im still facing rifles,grenadiers etc but in large numbers so I get peace with Gandhi..I had real culture problems with mansa all game,even though I had the Sistine chapel he was always encroaching my borders.So I decided to raze a few of his closest citys-burnt down the angkhor wat and notre dam in the process though...

    After this war I concentrated on tech and the space race,but again I was rudely interrupted by Mansa and Monty.This time though I was fielding Modern armour,Mech infantry,mobile artillery:lol:,mobile SAMs shooting down airships is quite funny.

    I wished Id just built the Manhatten project and nuked the lot of them,but Id got it in my head to try for an early space vic so I didn't want to cause any more global warming.

    Ran environmentalism from as soon as it was available to the end,was the only way to combat unhealtiness.


    View attachment NC CXLVII AD-1950 space victory.CivBeyondSwordSave

    1950ad space victory (turn 370 normal speed)

    Thanks to SunIsDark for posting this very interesting/challenging map.
     
  5. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,307
    I'm going to take a peek at this game later haha.
     
  6. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    6,819
    Immortal 1220 Conquest

    Spoiler :

    Mansa put up more of a fight than i thought he would, but not too much of one. Once he gave in i took my stack (that now had some trebs) up to Hammy and started kicking him around. He bribed Monty onto me, but Monty was basically just attacking Mansa so it wasn't a big deal. Hammy made me capture all of his mainland cities before he would give in which was annoying because my army ended up so far away.

    I started to swing down and go after Monty, who had finally taken a city off Mansa, when Toku declared on me too. This led to a cease fire with Monty while i took Toku. He had absolute junk units and capped really quickly allowing me to turn my attention back to Monty again. Monty had this stack sitting on a hill and refused to move it which was really annoying.
    Spoiler :


    I threw 4-5 old cats at it then used all of my Knights followed by everything else i could scrounge up. I did manage to wipe it out in 1T, but i still had to take 2 cities and march my army outside of a 3rd before he would give in. I had Cuirs at this point from Lib MT.

    Gandhi went down in 1T as he tends to do and that was game over.
    Spoiler :

     
  7. blunderwonder

    blunderwonder Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    312
    @izuul

    whered all the forests go? :p
     
  8. elmurcis

    elmurcis Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,024
    Location:
    Latvia
    Who needs forests? Just slow down computer (no really - lot of forests/jungle = not easy to move around map quickly :D ) and delay victory (early hammer investment = faster REX or Rush) :) okay, there are some problems with health.. but 2 forests can give 2 farms that is more than -1 health :)
     
  9. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,326
    Location:
    UK
    Didn't play a great game but diplo win 1270ad with cheese.

    Spoiler :


    Tried Oracle first and this was a terrible idea. Took monarchy and built a cottage capital. Built SH too.

    Found 4 cities. Then attacked french first. Took down to 3 cities. Then went after Mansa with phants and pults. Took him down to 3 cities. Finished off French. Then switch back to Mansa. Mansa with 1 city vasselled to Hammy who declared on me. Killed off Mansa.

    Had shared war with Aztecs for Mansa and Hammy. Got him to friendly. Same for Toku briefly. Got both to +11/12. Indians went free religion and were about 10+ techs ahead of me. Spread religion like mad to Toku and Aztecs. Eventually got win.
     
  10. guspasho

    guspasho Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2005
    Messages:
    362
    Spoiler :
    With so much production and so few things early on to spend hammers on, I can't help but get cities out pretty early on this map. Maybe SH will slow my growth down, but it seems like a waste of hammers. How do you maintain your commerce before getting to writing?

    I settled 1S, went Worker>Worker>Settler, and teched Hunting>BW>Wheel>Fishing>Pottery>Writing but even before I finish writing my tech rate is taking a dive.
     
  11. blunderwonder

    blunderwonder Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    312

    by keeping your cities small unless they have lots of commerce... Getting to currency is what really fixes it, not writing. Getting to alphabet is almost as good because you can build research.

    Before that, you need cottages, riverside farms, and to keep fewer cities. The # of cities will eventually be a killer, but early in the game, the size is almost as bad, if none of the tiles are commerce tiles.

    The capital doesnt have tons of commerce, but with only 2 cities, your tech rate is probably not taking a "dive", its just low because the map is not strong for commerce.

    You can also improve it a bit by open borders, and either roading into those civs, or by getting sailing, which is sometimes an easier/better choice, because it doesnt require worker turns, and you may want it anyway.

    /e this open borders thing, cannot be understated, there are some maps, where trade routes is all the commerce you'll really get, look at some GLH games. Early sailing can save you from some REALLY slow commerce on coastal starts. It doesnt matter as much when you dont have coastal cities, but if you have no open borders with currency, your getting like 2 commerce in trade routes, instead of 6, in almost every city... if you have 4 or 5 cites, your missing out on 3-4 gold mines.. it adds up pretty quick in the early game.


    Often times you will see some players intentionally keep a city at size 1, which seems odd to me even now, but if theyre doign it how bad can it be..?

    you get a city with iron PH, and just work that, the maintance will be very low, but early in the game, a size 1 city working a 6h tile, is alot less strain on your economy than a size 4 city, working 2 farms and 2 grassland hills with not much commerce or whatever Oo
     
  12. MegaLurker

    MegaLurker King

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    718
    With all that production but little commerce you want to resist the temptation to over-expand, and get to pottery and then writing as soon as possible. Get a few cottages going, then chop libraries in every city and have them all run scientists. That'll keep you from growing into unhappiness as well as minimize production while you have nothing to build. Every city can get a granary, library, barracks in that order. Then if you still don't have anything to build, warriors for garrison happiness in every city, maybe a scout to explore AI lands. This is assuming you've expanded to as many cities as you want to and already have enough workers.

    Open borders as soon as you have writing and road to AI cities for preferential trade routes. Also remember that all those riverside deer can have their forests chopped, which exchanges 1 hammer yield for 1 commerce. Every little bit helps.
     
  13. guspasho

    guspasho Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2005
    Messages:
    362
    I don't have any coastal cities in this game yet, and currency is still a long ways off. I mean my early early economy. With two cities, teching pottery is taking 11 turns, and with three cities, it takes 17 turns to tech Writing, though I haven't been building cottages. That seems like a dive. Each city has a trade route when it's founded.

    I'm teching Hunting>BW>Wheel>Fishing>Pottery>Writing, so I'm prioritizing Pottery and Writing as early as possible.

    Does anyone know why it would be beneficial to commerce to keep city size low? I'd think I need citizens working cottages to improve my commerce.

    Maybe I'm teching to Writing as fast as is possible on this map. Is that the case and should I just chill?
     
  14. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    6,819
    Larger cities have higher maintenance, but that's usually less noticeable in the early game. # of cities (and distance to cap) will have a much larger effect than larger cities. As long as you are worker good tiles it's fine to grow cities. When you run out of good tiles and start working junky ones you should whip some pop away.

    And fwiw, I'm not saying don't expand either. Just try to assess the costs and benefits when settling cities. Land is powerful, but a lot of times you have to pay for it early to reap the benefits of it later. Knowing where and when to settle city sites can be a difficult skill.
     
  15. blunderwonder

    blunderwonder Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    312


    your probably teching quick enough, just not used to low commerce starts.

    When tech rate takes a "dive" it usually means your slider is very low, or even at zero, because the maintanance is so high on your cities.

    On some maps, in the beginning even 3 or 4 cities is a real strain, if those cities are too far away, or have too much population. The maintanence will be 4 per city, but they will bring in only 2 commerce.. If your capital is only bringing in 10.. your now at like 50% slider or something.

    Its an annoying thing, but some maps are just slow for commerce. Your best bet with stuff like that is trying to keep a low # of cities if maintenance is a killer, or spam cottages.

    What turn are you up to? I got nothin to do today so i could throw up a video of my first 30 mins of play or something like that. Im sure there are some slow commerce starts that AZ or someone else has played you could take a look at though.
     
  16. ecuwins

    ecuwins Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,288
    Re: Commerce on this map.
    Spoiler :
    There is hardly any commerce right out of the gate here. Cottages are necessary, but you don't need tons of them. I put a few in the Capital, two shared with city #3. And two in my city #2.

    That coupled with scientists and foreign trade routes kept me going pretty well.

    Techs went Hunting > BW > Pottery > Writing > Sailing(quick foreign trade routes, I already had them scouted out and had a coastal city) > Math > Currency

    I killed the slider after Math and waited for my first GS to build an Academy in my capital.

    Of course, later on I built many more cottages as this map totally begs for them. No food issues, little raw happiness, ect...
     
  17. ecuwins

    ecuwins Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,288
    Wrapping this up...

    200BC
    Spoiler :
    I decided that it was Manifest Destiny for the Indian people to be united under one ruler.
    Spoiler :


    Ghandi netted me Stonehenge, Hindu Shrine, and a nice GP farm.


    680AD
    Spoiler :
    Now it's Toku's turn.
    Spoiler :



    The Capital
    Spoiler :


    Heroic Epic
    Spoiler :


    Soon to be GP farm
    Spoiler :


    Once Toku was down to one city, he peace vassaled to Napoleon. Which brings us to...


    1200AD
    Spoiler :
    I took Military Tradition with Lib and then headed for Rifling.

    Going all in on Nappers.
    Spoiler :


    He had some nice stuff: Parthenon, Mausoleum of Maussollos, Colossus, GLighthouse, and Hanging Gardens.


    1420AD
    Spoiler :
    Now Mali
    Spoiler :


    1520AD Domination
    Spoiler :
     
  18. dalamb

    dalamb Deity

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,160
    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario
    Hmm. Into Week 2 and only 37 messages. Are folks out enjoying the sunshine, I wonder? (up to 26 Celsius here today)
     
  19. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,326
    Location:
    UK
    It's not a bad map. I think this section has been quiet last month or so.
     
  20. ecuwins

    ecuwins Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,288
    Yep, I had fun on this map.

    This place has gotten slowwww, just the first page of this sub-forum goes back a whole month. Still, that's not too bad for a game that is as old as it is.
     

Share This Page