Nobles' Club CXVI: Elizabeth of the English Empire

[The Oz-Man]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Elizabeth of England, whom we last played way back in NC LVIII. We last played England under Victoria in NC LXXXIX. The English start with Fishing and Mining--good for coastal starts and a great head start toward the Great Lighthouse if you want to give that a try.

• Traits: Elizabeth is Financial and Philosophical. Financial adds an extra commerce to any tile with two or more commerce; Philosophical offers cheaper Great People and Universities. This can be a potent set of traits, and it's arguably one of the better pairs for a cultural victory if you choose to go that route.
• The UB: The Stock Exchange, a Bank that gives +65% gold instead of the usual +50%. I don't think this is a very significant bonus, but a late-game corporation push might love it.
  
  
• The UU: The Redcoat, a Rifleman that adds 25% against Gunpowder units. Not too shabby, but not really a standout UU, it extends the lifespan of what's already an excellent unit.
  
  

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Pangaea, low sea level for lots of land. No restrictions on leaders and civilizations, so you'll see at least a few combinations you might not normally see. All leaders and civs hand-picked because I felt like throwing in wacky gimmicks. There's a theme. You'll figure it out.

Spoiler for edits :

Moved the warrior to reveal the goodies to the southwest.

Spoiler wacky leader combinations :

Victoria is Empress of India. Theodora of Byzantium is Financial/Philosophical and is... gasp... a second Elizabeth! THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE.

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:

• 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
• 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
• 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
• 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
  continent if applicable, etc)
• 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
• End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number of stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing. Thanks to dalamb as well for busting his tail to keep this rolling.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC number Leader Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[The Oz-Man]

Reserved. Let me know if there are any problems; I sort of put this together in a hurry. Have fun and happy Civving!

 

[Robert FIN]

Thanks a lot Oz!! I will be playing this! Edit: Is it better to move SW or SIP?? If you move SW you grab the marble but if you SIP you can work the seafood... I'd settle in place maybe.

 

[Giant Wolfman]

Tempted to settle 1N of the warrior to get marble in capital BFC. Will start by moving the warrior 1NW, then decide based on what we see.

Fishing starts always bother me, because I don't know what to do at the beginning. If there's no land-based food, should you build a workboat first, then build a worker?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

@Robert FIN

Spoiler :

Edit: Is it better to move SW or SIP?

None of the above?

 

[vranasm]

@Robert FIN

Spoiler :

None of the above?

SIP is actually pretty decent.
The other move that came to mind was 1W, but it kinda is move imo since you will lose 2 hills (well technically it's 1.5 since you will get at least 1 more hammer in city tile, but still...)

since that PH is not forested and you start with mining this one is really tricky...

On lower difficulties SIP, worker first and BW is most probably best opening.

 

[Silverbow]

Probably gonna SIP, unless warrior NW reveals something good. There's 2 FPs in the east we'll lose by moving, but there's also at least one FP out west if we go 1W of the PH to grab the marble. Settling on the PH itself will lead to very hammer-poor capital.

 

[GKey]

I'd SIP, looks like there are floodplains on the east. Why would anyone consider moving south from the food?

 

[Robert FIN]

About the neighbor trick...

Spoiler :

First I met Boudica and I thought that the trick was like: England and its neighbors. Then I found Hatty and I got the clue. Nice one Theodora of Byzanth?? Vicky of India?? Weird... And by the way: Why does Cathy do the slap thing to me all the time??!! My face hurts 'cause she slapped me too many times while trading techs...

 

[Pengu]

1st try until 2100 BC

Spoiler :

Real difficult to balance expansion with growing your city.
After seeing the marble and phants I settled 2 W.
With no other real food available than fish and clam building boat seems a must for me as the city just won't grow without it. Then I thought 1 boat might not be enough so for once I went double boat. Maybe I should have chopped it out but I need to save those forests for Oracle. As soon as I reached 4 pop I whipped a worker and then did the same again. Went BW and masonry and then sailing to get even more food as I have 2 happy resources. My main city is looking nice and my tech is good but I have 1 city while all the other AI's have 3 or 4 cities. But if I had done differently I wouldn't be able to work my gems as the city would never had grown.

 

[lymond]

Pengu - Don't you have somewhere important to be?

 

[tijup]

I'll SIP I think.
For production, I will go for 2 WB, warriors, then a worker and a settler.
I was planning to play at monarch for that NC, but I'm wondering now, with what I've read in the
spoiler, I may try it a Prince instead.

My current (and first) monarch game isn't a ballad in a park i was used to have at Noble.

 

[cseanny]

Gonna play Immortal and open up with BW > wheel > AH or Pot > Wrt > alpha. Build will be wb and time it so that 8/8 (to grow and finish wb) with BW finishing at 7turns. Whip 1st wb and overflow into 2nd wb > worker > warriors to 5 > settler worker spam.

 

[Bisque]

Epic speed example:

when staring off with a workboat first, which is better..

-work a grassland forest for 2 1 finishing in 23 turns (same as a worker first build) but growing in 17... which means it will finish a bit faster than 23 turns..

OR...

-work a plains hill for 2 1 and not grow but finish in 15 turns...

 

[landy]

Epic speed example:

when staring off with a workboat first, which is better..

-work a grassland forest for 2 1 finishing in 23 turns (same as a worker first build) but growing in 17... which means it will finish a bit faster than 23 turns..

OR...

-work a plains hill for 2 1 and not grow but finish in 15 turns...

You may compare the time you need to finish a work boat AND to grow to pop 2 in both ways.

 

[dalamb]

Interesting twist. I think I'll drop back to Prince just to make it likelier I'll finish.

Thanks again for making this map.

 

[rfcfanatic]

I'll try this on Prince/Normal. Looks like a tough start. Fish starts are always tricky. Poor production near capital, but commerce seems to be excellent. It means early cottage spam.

 

[FlyingSwan]

SIP is no brainer for me as I love FIN windmills,this start shouts oracle civil service even at emporer level.Worker 1st then TW,POT,BW,WRIT?

Spoiler :

went TW,pot,writ,alpha and got civil service turn 77.

With this many females around as neighbours I fear the gossip,knitting clubs,and a full moon.Nout worse than a women scorned...BRRrrr.

View attachment NC 116 Elizabethmac BC-0975 oracle CS.CivBeyondSwordSaveturn 77 civil service

 

[Napfo]

Hi,
I'm new to this forum as a writer, but read and played through this series for longer. I just play for fun and I am too lazy for much micromanagement and thinking about every move of every unit. My skilllevel is noble, so I played this on noble with epic speed.

So here is my game review:

Spoiler :

This map is very interesting. I SIP'ed and started with worker and then 2 WBs (with the help of chopping). The only real possible direction to settle my empire was western, because the eastern land was crappy and there was jungle to the south. Cathys traits are really annoying, so i just got 6 cities. I was really boxed in.
Food was not that good, production was really crappy in this area, but what you really have is commerce; so many floodplains (in the western area) and the financial trait for strong early cottages. I teched very fast, but just managed to get three wonders in my capital (Glib, parthenon, colossus), because there was simply no production (usually I get MoM and Taj in my normal games as well). Diplo was a bit lucky coz i adopted the religion from Spain/Russia and the Celts went for Egypt, still i had to fear the ESP/RUS-alliance the whole game.
My winning strategy: Lib for Rifling (with this commerce, really good players can lib such ridiculous things) and draft mass Redcoats.
So I went counter-clockwise first against Celtia (London was down to pop1 while drafting), then Byzantium, India forced peace through AP so I had to remove Egypt before them. India was then killed by my Infantery (tech was so fast o.O) and I hoped that it would be enough for domination, but Russia and Spain were so big, that I had to attack them as well. They had a defense-pact, so I had to fight both at once, but I was so advanced that I killed their Knights and Longbows with Infantery. They did not even have gunpowderunits. Domination in the 1770ies after removing Russia from the map because I don't like vasalls and usually kill AIs completely .

Summary: really not so easy map, as the start suggests. Marble is nearly useless with such a low base production and you don't need wonders to tech. My GSs did not need bulbing anything and made academies in every city. You can so easy get boxed in. I am really curious what better players do on this map, because it has quite a high potential for fast teching.

 

[klonoklown]

Monarch <-- feeling lazy 1000 AD

Spoiler :

Since were pretty boxed in, and it being a fishing start already slowing us down, I thought a rush was in order. And what better rush than elepults! when ivory is around. I expanded to four cities, 2 of them to the NW, and 1 to the NE.

Headed towards construction, while eyeing up Boudica. She had eight cities and was settling in my face so that kinda upset me But she did pay for it, I could of took capping but with only 2 cities of her's left thought that might be kinda useless, so I took her out.

Izzy has been teching like crazy in my game. Also CathyorausosRex is pretty big and just being herself. Now I tech Nationalism, build Taj while I tech the last little bit of Lib after a bulb. Of course go for MT, upgrade the remaining elephants I have left and go to town!