Nobles' Club CXVIII: De Gaulle of France

[dalamb]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

This is a joint effort between me and Robert FIN, who made the base map.

Our next leader is De Gaulle of France, whom we last played in NC LXXV; we last played the French under Louis XIV in NC CIX. The French start with Agriculture and The Wheel, which are are sufficient prerequisites for early Pottery.

• Traits: De Gaulle is Charismatic and Industrious. CHA gives extra and faster promotions; IND means faster wonder building and forges. If you decide to wonderspam, I have a link to a draft guide in my signature.
• The UB: The Salon, an Observatory that gives a free artist. Many players say this is one of the worst UBs, though it might prove useful in some cultural victories.
  
  
  
  
• The UU: The Musketeer, a Musketman with two moves instead of one. Many players disparage mustketmen, but even in the fairly narrow window before musketmen become obsolete, it can be useful to be able to get to the battlefront more quickly.
  
  

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Pangaea, chosen leaders.

Spoiler edits :

Robert added some resources near us and put a bay between us and a near neighbour. I gave the neighbour back some food the bay erased.

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:

• 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
• 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
• 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
• 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
• continent if applicable, etc)
• 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
• End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number of stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 118 De Gaulle Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[dalamb]

Reserved.

 

[Tempesta13]

The WB-saves are attached

Not sure that they are

 

[dalamb]

Opps. I did "manage attachments" and "browse" but forgot "upload." They'll be up in a couple of minutes.

 

[Robert FIN]

Thanks dalamb! Maybe I learn how to make these maps someday. I'm gonna play at prince. Lost interest on Monty map so I'm 100% interested on this one.

 

[lymond]

DeGaulle is a pretty good leader really that does not seem to pop up much in games.

I'm inclined to move the warrior 1NW on the hill to see if settling on marble is worth it..it may be anyway. Settling on PH 1SE of corn might be a good call too though it is somewhat blind and lacking freshwater. SIP seems reasonable though to keep river and production.

 

[lymond]

This is a....

Spoiler :

deceptively strong start. Land looks somewhat mediocre at first and space is tight, but if you pump out some settlers you should secure a good 7 or 8 cities without war. Settle on marble is very strong here. Easy early wonders. And a city due east of this makes a very fine Bureau cap.

IMM 400AD ...Edu in 1t>Lib next (part tech) About to wipe Darius with Mace/Cats. Probably go Engineering before Lib for trebs and take out Shaka and Sal (whose culture is pizzing me off)

Wonders:

Oracle> MC (so strong with IND)
ToA ...just for the heck of it...i did not even have masonry at the time...just kept 3 popping settlers into it
The Great Library in the BCs
Parthenon
MoM
Colossus
Shwegedie Pegadie
Sistine

Paris built wonders so fast it was sick

Music GA used for 12t GA

Darius will soon donate GLH to the cause

 

[Smilingrogue]

I think I will settle on the Marble if warrior 1 NW reveals a couple more hills. We lose riverside and all that but a city can always be settled there down the line for a future capital switch. If there aren't any more hills up there beside the one we see, SIP is pretty strong long term too. I really want to try the Wonder Economy Obsolete showcased. Here's hoping the map complies!

But I need to clear my backlog of games first though. Still playing SOM Ramesses and then there's that IU Louis game. So much to play, so little time.

 

[ben-jammin]

I think I will settle on the Marble if warrior 1 NW reveals a couple more hills. We lose riverside and all that but a city can always be settled there down the line for a future capital switch. If there aren't any more hills up there beside the one we see, SIP is pretty strong long term too. I really want to try the Wonder Economy Obsolete showcased. Here's hoping the map complies!

But I need to clear my backlog of games first though. Still playing SOM Ramesses and then there's that IU Louis game. So much to play, so little time.

Yeah, not a lot of forum games to my liking for a while and then all of a sudden 5 or 6 in a row. It's a tough life

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

This is a....

Spoiler :

deceptively strong start. Land looks somewhat mediocre at first and space is tight, but if you pump out some settlers you should secure a good 7 or 8 cities without war. Settle on marble is very strong here. Easy early wonders. And a city due east of this makes a very fine Bureau cap.

IMM 400AD ...Edu in 1t>Lib next (part tech) About to wipe Darius with Mace/Cats. Probably go Engineering before Lib for trebs and take out Shaka and Sal (whose culture is pizzing me off)

Wonders:

Oracle> MC (so strong with IND)
ToA ...just for the heck of it...i did not even have masonry at the time...just kept 3 popping settlers into it
The Great Library in the BCs
Parthenon
MoM
Colossus
Shwegedie Pegadie
Sistine

Paris built wonders so fast it was sick

Music GA used for 12t GA

Darius will soon donate GLH to the cause

Spoiler :

When is TGL not built in the BCs? If you are finishing it any later than around 100 AD something is moving very slowly. But I agree De Gaulle is a nice leader purely from IND + TW Agri.

 

[lymond]

@ Z cubed

Spoiler :

When is TGL not built in the BCs? If you are finishing it any later than around 100 AD something is moving very slowly. But I agree De Gaulle is a nice leader purely from IND + TW Agri.

Spoiler :

Not a clue what was going through my mind when I said that. I may have meant Sistine. TGL around 300BC or so, but I know the usually target dates on it and often push it to the limits around 1AD or later.

 

[WorstChord]

Will play this on Monarch/Epic (no huts).

Initial thoughts; never played as De Gaulle before, but the Cha/Ind traits combined with Marble nearby are stongly swaying me towards building Stonehenge and The Oracle in the capital, in order to get to Metal Casting and cheap Forges quickly and to generate a Great Prophet for the some as yet undefined purpose.

Only problem is that I'd like more production tiles in the capital for this game (looks like there's only 3, possibly 4, in the BFC). Need to move the Warrior and see what we can see before settling.

 

[rfcfanatic]

Monarch/Normal, until 350 AD

Spoiler :

This map is brutal! Surrounded by the AI from 3 sides and one of them is brutal warmonger. So I had to forgo all plans of peaceful wonder-building and become a brutal warmonger myself.

This map actually makes Walls and Archery useful, but best defense is still offense. Beelined Horseback Riding and wiped out Darius. Two major religious factions formed - Hinduism (Saladin, Darius) and Judaism (Suryavarman, Shaka, Suleiman). Sitting Bull is the only one in Buddhism. I joined the Judaist camp because of you-know-who But that wasn't enough. When I DoW'ed on Saladin, I got attacked by mr. Warmonger. Luckily, I was able to defend while capturing Saladin's known cities. Current city count is 10 from which only 3 I built myself:

Spoiler screenshot :

I'll see what I can do against mr. Warmonger. Unfortunately I let him to build Mids. That explains why he is running Police State and that's why it's difficult to keep up in Power category:

Spoiler power graph :

 

[JSS]

Immortal/Normal, no huts/Conquest 1270AD

Spoiler :

I haven't played much lately, so this was a fun map to get into the game again. As others, I too settled on the marble (who wouldn't? marble hill, fresh water with food and riverside)...

My 1st settle was the PH near Darius, grabbing the gold/wheat future capital spot. I got 6 cities while teching polytheism going the literature route when I noticed nobody had built the Oracle. I teched Priesthood and Masonry both in 1 and 2 turns, and built/chopped the Oracle in 2 turns in 725BC:

That's the latest I've seen in a long time. Got to start a couple of wars with MC and other techs I had on the AIs, and it was pretty easy to handle the diplo from there on. Shaka did declare on me at one point, but signed peace after I bribed Saladin on him and defended his attack with 5 over-the-river longbows.

I double bulbed Education in 325AD:

...and got MT from Lib in 620AD:

From there it was a matter of sweeping the board in the least time possible.

 

[rfcfanatic]

May I ask what's the rationale behind settling on plains hill Marble?

 

[The Oz-Man]

3 hammer city tile plus immediate access to the resource, and it makes up for the fact that the marble gives no food.

 

[Tempesta13]

3 hammers for the city tile. With this start you can pull it off while keeping good food, production, fresh water and commerce in the capital. Can help speed up your start a lot.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

@ Z cubed

Spoiler :

Not a clue what was going through my mind when I said that. I may have meant Sistine. TGL around 300BC or so, but I know the usually target dates on it and often push it to the limits around 1AD or later.

Spoiler :

Ahh that makes sense then. The Sissy Chap is quite a big wonder.

 

[ben-jammin]

May I ask what's the rationale behind settling on plains hill Marble?

3 hammer city tile gives you a super fast start, and will make getting the oracle easy (you save 11 worker turns required to hook it up).

 

[Ichthys_163]

Just started playing CivIV again. I think playing doing a few of these games is a good way to get back into things and reacquaint myself with the game.

4000BC:

Spoiler :

Saw the Marble, considered settling on it so moved the Warriors NW onto the hill for a better view. I like what I saw, so settled on the Marble. Given the 3 food tile I decided to make another Warrior first. Ran into Darius on turn 5, saw how close he was, decided to take him out. Turn 17 I captured Persepolis with 3 Warriors, losing 2. Turn 24 I discovered Shaka. Considering the distance, if I knew he was there I probably would have taken him out over Darius. I remember Shaka is very trigger happy with his declarations.

1200BC:

Spoiler :

Currently have 3 cities (settled NE of Paris 1 tile E of the Wheat), nabbed the Oracle. Both Shaka and Saladin are expanding towards me. Probably won't be settling vast swathes of land

275AD:

Spoiler :

Shaka declares on me.Got to admit, I did not see this coming. Militarily I am superior and Saladin is right next to him and of a different religion, so I thought their relationship would be worse. I'm not really prepared to fight and lost a border city in the initial attack. Took it back a turn later. Switched to teching Feudalism/Civil Service to get Macemen and Longbows.

720AD:

Spoiler :

Get Shaka to declare peace after pillaging his iron and taking one of his cities, plus 80 gold and 2 gold a turn for me. If I could've I probably would've taken him out, but I didn't have the techs for siege weapons and didn't have a unit tech advantage. I don't doubt he'll declare again and I'll take him out then.

Here's how the map looks:

Spoiler :

Techwise I'm in a good place:

Spoiler :

I built the Oracle, The Great Lighthouse and the Mausoleum of Maussollos. Running Hereditary rule, Caste System and Organized Religion. Founded Confucianism and Christianity, with Christianity being based in Persepolis. I should be getting a Great Prophet from Paris in not too many turns, so I've been spread Christianity.

Not certain on my gameplan yet. I've got an Axeman with Medic II, will be able to spam out siege in a few turns and will likely get the tech for Heroic Epic, so I'll wipe out Shaka when he next declares (or maybe declare on him, nobody likes him that much so it wouldn't be too bad diplomatically. The Khmers are still at war with him too, though I don't know how much fighting is actually being done. Neither side has taken a city). Depending on how that turns out I might take out Saladin too, no one really likes him either.
Alternatively I've got a solid tech lead, so could just play the long game and roll over everyone with superior units later or win the space race.