Nobles' Club CXXI: Brennus of the Celts

[dalamb]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Brennus of Celtia, whom we last played in NC XCVI. The Celts start with Hunting and Mysticism.

• Traits: Brennus is Charismatic and Spiritual. CHA means +1 (+1 more with a monument), which lets your cities expand faster sooner. It also reduces the XP for promotions by 25%, meaning your units improve faster. SPI means faster temples, but its chief benefit is no anarchy when switching civics. This can be a diplomatic trait: it lets you yield to AI demands for civic and religion switches, gaining you improved relations, while allowing you to change back easily five turns later.
• The UB: The Dun, a Wall that gives a free Guerilla I promotion to units built in the city; if you can build most of your cities on hills, archers will be especially good defenders. Unfortunately this doesn't synthesize with the UU, which also gets Guerilla I.
  
  
• The UU: The Gallic Warrior, a Swordsman with Guerilla I; with Guerilla II only 2 XP away, this unit has an advantage on hilly maps.
  

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Pangaea, default parameters.

Spoiler edits :

Turned one plains tile to our west into ocean to open up a lake into a bay. Verified we have iron reasonably nearby for our UU, and that no AI seemed to have too much space into which to expand unopposed.

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:

• 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
• 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
• 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
• 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
• continent if applicable, etc)
• 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
• End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number of stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC number Leader Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[Tall German Joe]

Spoiler map details :

Pangaea, default parameters.

Spoiler edits :

Turned one plains tile to our west into ocean to open up a lake into a bay. Verified we have iron reasonably nearby for our UU, and that no AI seemed to have too much space into which to expand unopposed.

Spoiler :

the celt UU doesn't require iron; they can build it with either iron OR bronze!

as far as the starting spot goes, i'd move the scout 1 NE to see if it's worth settling 1NE, as it looks like there's a river up there - could be useful for cottages. might mean giving up potential seafood to the west, however...

 

[lymond]

Ah...good ole Celt ***insert top secret mystery map here*** love. Time for some Gallic madness..such an underrated UU

 

[ben-jammin]

Ah...good ole Celt Pangaea love. Time for some Gallic madness..such an underrated UU

Er....what?

 

[lymond]

Er....what?

very much so

 

[Izuul]

Basically a regular sword until you get them to Guerilla III, no?

 

[dalamb]

Some people would like not to know the map type, folks.

 

[blunderwonder]

Some people would like not to know the map type, folks.

it saves time for people who dont like archlipego marathon games, also... youll see it as soon as you hit f8 anyway


I am sort of curious as to why you wouldnt want to know the map settings though, that may be too much mystery for me lol

 

[Kyle Everett]

I wish I was better at taking detailed notes and pictures as I go along. I have a strong feeling that I really need to conquer Monarch once and for all because this was rather easy for me.

Conquest 1780, Prince, Epic Speed

Spoiler :

One reason I think it's time for me to move up is that I don't think our starting location is actually that overpowered. Lots of coastal cities so I made up my mind early to go for the GLH which I did get. For our neighbors. I expanded eastwards blocking Washington early on. I think its the best regardless cause the land to the north is mostly jungle and calendar resources anways.

Initial dot map. I know its more spread out that we usually like, but I saw no compelling reason to overlap greatly on this map.


I did manage to settle all those cities starting with the green location first which turns out to have had copper on it, but since it was flat desert was more worth it to settle on top. The only site I didn't get to was pink which Washington founded New York on.

The religions were pretty all over the place. It ended up with Pacal, Washington, and I as Buddhists, Hammurabi, Sitting Bull, and Tokugawa Hindus, and Suryavarman on his own as Christian.

This is the set up as I was starting to gear up for war. It wasn't until 500AD or so that I felt comfortable starting it. It was actually a catapult/axeman war. I know it was late to do it, but Washington wasn't anywhere close to Feudalism, but I was.


The war went well. I took Philadelphia and New York quickly. I took Washington too, but as I was going to take Atlanta, he manged to overpower the force I had left behind. I razed Atlanta but managed to get Feudalism right after. I took the capitulation rather than finish him off as my economy was hurting a bit. After that Sury asked me to join a war with him against Hammurabi and I accepted. Took Ainu to my northwest and took peace for a tech and some gold afterwards. Pacal peace vassaled me sometime in that time frame as well. Hammurabi became Sitting Bull's vassal and Toku became Sury's during that time. I think it was both peace since they eventually broke free. During that time I kept teching with my friend Pacal, leading him away from Liberalism while I got the techs needed to bulb Steel which I did. While I was getting to steel, Hammurabi broke free and I immediately declared war to prevent him from going back to Sitting Bull. I capitulated him fast after which I got steel and started pumping out cannons and upgrading my trebs. As I was preparing to hit Sitting Bull, Toku broke free which made him the easy pickings. After I took him over, Sury and Sitting Bull both fell rather quickly.

My southern core at the end of the game:


Northern core:


The end screen:


Top 5 cities. I only had one there, but I didn't spend a lot of time building wonders.


And the score graphs. I kinda did very well with the production side of things, but that's not shocking given the capital location.


A fun map overall, but I probably should retry it on Monarch.

 

[Tall German Joe]

@Kyle Everett
you played a whole standard speed game, resulting in industrial-era conquest victory, in an hour and 30 minutes??? holy smokes that's fast!! congrats on your win!

 

[Kyle Everett]

Epic speed rather... I'm a fast player, I don't micromanage nearly as much as I should.

 

[blunderwonder]

Normal speed/imm/no events

Spoiler :

settled 7 cities pretty quickly as a result of tons of food and happiness, picked up mostly coastal cities, and 2 jungle cities because of that i have like 10 workers, and im still struggling to get rid of all the jungle. grabbed 3 fur, 2fish 3 clam, marble, 3silk, banana, 2 iron and a horse.

roosie managed to beat me to the stone and settled 6 cities and hes culture pressuring me now. its a buddhist lovefest now except for toku/SB who are both hindu and at war with eachother lol.. Anyway its looking like a 650ad lib for me and i stopped cause tired, ill probably take MT and cuir rush roosie and grab the stone so i can throw up an oxford, ill probably let him finish sankore first though because for the first time ever i have 2 budhist buildings in every city due to buddhist love fest and the AP being built so early, also the temples are a nice touch as I have tons of food in most cities and have been OR whipping like mad. unfortunately i didnt get to use the UU or even build one, built a few chariots and warriors. I love spiritual, because i missed music to pacal, and ive been switching back and forth between OR/slavery and pacifism/caste like twice now, and the double speed temples and OR with the ap as the religion i already have has made for a pretty quick game... Im considering libbing steel instead, but it will mean a much later lib date, though im 99% sure i can lib steel in this game. Also, strangely enough i have 7 cities, and 15% of the land, surry has 8 cities, and has 25% of the land lol... Ill finish tomorrow thought cause tired, i do like the map quite a bit though, im not thrilled about having settled on the marble with a sorta lame city but what can ya do

 

[Tall German Joe]

very curious to hear how people played out their initial turns... thought this was quite a stumper. no real clear "best" path for sure. anyways, here i am at 1 AD. diety standard, NHNE. game is not going great!

Spoiler :

moved scout NE, but saw no compelling reason not to SIP. not my kinda start! decided to go worker first, then warrior until 2, then a settler; after that i just got 3 workboats out as fast as i could. techs were (i think i'm recalling this correctly) ag -> tw -> fishing -> pottery -> mining -> BW -> writing-> masonry -> polytheism to failgold the fwiggn temple of artemis, but then it landed after i built it for only 1 turn -> math -> construction -> HBR

start was so cramped i saw no reason to build more than 3 warriors total, much less archery. maya founded hinduism, roosey got a very late buddhism; oracle went very late @ 1200 BC, but who knew pacal wouldn't go for it? could have oracled construction had i known. =/ put academy in vienne, as i have plans to move the capital.

hit roosey very late; he just got feudalism. =/ only have had time to pump out a few elephants despite that... most of my army is gallics and catapults, ho hum.

1 AD SS:

Spoiler :

if this doesn't work out, i think i'll try this map again, this time attempting to oracle construction. watch it land 1000 years earlier next time

 

[dalamb]

@blunderwonder: I hide the map type in a spoiler because some Nobles asked me to. There have been brief discussions a couple of times over the years, and the preference has been to keep map details including type in spoilers. To find out why you'd have to do a poll.

 

[rfcfanatic]

Brennus - a leader I've never played as. Although I can fight tech parity wars on Monarch level in any era with acceptable level of confidence, I suck at Monarch-level research and thus, it's too early for me to try Emperor. So yes, let's play on Monarch/Normal/No Huts/No Events.

SiP seems to be the only option here. I would have to spend more than 1 turns in order to get to a plains hill and even if I went there, it would be pretty terrible place to settle, with no food and with 2 desert tiles.

 

[rfcfanatic]

450 AD rage-quit. Simply don't know how to play with swords or their UU replacements

 

[Izuul]

Trying this one on Deity... 620AD.

Spoiler :

I SIP and went Ag > Mining > BW > Fishing > Sailing > Masonry and chopped out GLH. Things would've been pretty bleak had i missed out on it, but i was able to land it in 1400BC.

Spoiler :

I started settling as many coastal spots as i could get, and ended up with 7 cities. I wanted to settle on top of the marble to the south, but Sury settled 2 tiles away to the west and screwed that plan up. That would become a major problem later... I got my first GS and didn't see much point in building an Academy anywhere, so i bulbed Philo. That was a good move as the other AI all avoided it, and none of them got it until i traded it around in ~500AD.

Spoiler :

In 150 BC i lost the TGL by 2 turns to Hammurabi. I can't say i was surprised since he got Lit before everyone else. Something else also happened on that turn that appears pretty harmless, but would actually cause a lot of damage. Sury won Music and got the free GA.

Spoiler :

A couple of turns later that GA shows up in his city across the bay from me.

Spoiler :

And on the next turn i lose my marble for the rest of the game...

Spoiler :

Bye bye marble, future FG, and any chance of the building the Taj! Oh well... hopefully i can make him pay later.

I kept on chugging along on the way to Lib and eventually decided to trade Philo and Paper around. Hammy already had Paper, but Philo was still a monopoly tech and i would've liked to have kept it but there were a few reasons i decided to trade it. 1) I was pretty confident i could still bulb my way on to Lib without anyone else beating me there. 2) I really needed some techs like MC, Music, Compass, etc. 3) I thought that if i traded Philo to Pacal that i might be able to bribe him on someone the next turn with Paper + Nationalism.... and i could indeed!

Spoiler :

I also bribed Roosevelt onto Toku pretty cheaply to tie him up as well. Things are looking pretty good on the diplo front with only Sury avoiding all of the strife so war. He's annoyed with me now, but hasn't started plotting. I bulbed Lib and teched it to within 1 turn, got a Merchant to upgrade some elephants, and now I'm working on Gunpowder. Actually i guess there's no reason not to finish Lib at this point... better do that first.

Here are some overview pics:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[Smilingrogue]

@ Izuul

Spoiler :

Are you sure you couldn't have settled the Marble? I thought the two tile distance rule doesn't apply when the cities are completely separated by water?

Good luck with the upcoming Cuir stomp. Who are you planning on hitting?

 

[Izuul]

@ Izuul

Spoiler :

Are you sure you couldn't have settled the Marble? I thought the two tile distance rule doesn't apply when the cities are completely separated by water?

Good luck with the upcoming Cuir stomp. Who are you planning on hitting?

Spoiler :

The spot was invalid with a Settler selected, so i don't think it matters.
I'm fairly certain I'm going to attack Hammy. He's been building all of the wonders and he's on the way to Sury. I'm hoping i can do something to occupy Sury for a bit so they don't tag team me.

 

[Culture Bomb]

@ Izuul

Spoiler :

Are you sure you couldn't have settled the Marble? I thought the two tile distance rule doesn't apply when the cities are completely separated by water?

Spoiler :

AFAIK, that is only if they are actually on different land masses rather than on the same land mass but with water in between.