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Nobles Club CXXXVII - Churchill

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by elitetroops, Dec 13, 2013.

  1. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
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    5,107
    I'm at work now so don't remember all the details. However...
    Spoiler :
    I think rushing AC was okay. As you write he starts spamming wonders and that would put pressure on my cities (but make for good captures later), and I wanted to grab land, and Rome is a good city. The problem was rather my tech choices which went more along the route of tradebait rather than "I NEED THIS!" to recover. Anyway, the result is my economy is still hosed by 1300AD, I'm lagging behind in techs, and even lost Lib by the smallest of margins. Should just have blown the GScientist on finishing Edu, but that is 20/20 hindsight. I didn't expect Hammy to instantly go for Lib, and in any case thought that pushing through it in 5 turns would win it.

    I'm having fun with a Cyrus game now, and working on recovery, but maybe I'll try a desperate whipping for war attempt here and take on Hammy. Not at all confident he can be brought down given his stack of Knights and such, but maybe if I'm lucky. I do have War elephants afterall. Izzy would be softer I think, and she isn't quite as far ahead in tech, but I do have a problem with backstabbing Friendly AIs, and she IS further away geographically. Even if I manage to take out Hammy though, it's hard to see a win here given I need to take on the other continent too, and it's already 1300AD. The good thing is they have been locked in war though. Must have seen at least 5 'foreign' GG messages, so they're certainly not getting along too well! :D

    I've also become much more of an early rusher, and find it more fun than just peacefully expanding and breaking out with e.g. Cuirs. I do need to get better at recovery though, because I think the issue is there rather than necessarily the rushing. As Seraiel have said, Land is Power, and I therefore like to grab some of it early while taking out an AI. When a future danger like AC is this close, I felt it was a no-brainer. The Rome you took over is mighty nice though, I can't argue with that! :D

    Maybe I'll try, but can't promise anything. Gotta buy Xmas presents too as some point, and time is running out :(
     
  2. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
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    5,508
    Played a bit further:
    Spoiler :
    Had a very brief war with Hammy and capped him after taking 4 cities, including a very profitable shrined holy city. Just as I had my army in place to strike Isabella, she somehow got to rifling. But that's no problem because
    Spoiler :
    :mwaha::mwaha: CRIII Redcoats ROCK :rockon::rockon::rockon:

    Her riflemen are absolutely no match for these monsters! Don't even need the cannons for anything else than bombardment!
     
  3. Pengu

    Pengu Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    428
    Until 1625 AD

    Spoiler :

    Well, I don't think I playing this one optimally at all but I am having little trouble anyway. Getting 18 cities peacefully after taking out Rome is a bit too much. Just delays my game.
    But I have been sitting at the top pts wise since 1000 AD. But I lost lib, but was 1st too steel and rifling, but just dumb to wait for rifling before attacking. And then I had a peace treaty with the Ottomans which delayed my attack by another 6 turns.
    But when I dowed him the war went fast. I wanted his shrine city before capping him though. Now I am about to attack Izzy, but she got rifling, which won't matter anyway as the size of my army is huge. With even more islands it's going to be another slog like my last game I feel...


    Until 1750 AD

    Spoiler :

    Finally that b**** capped. I had to almost wipe her completely from the continent(which I did) before she was willing to cap.
    But now the boring stuff begins. I am sitting at 36! cities which is almost twice anyone else with 2 vassals and tech parity with the other.
    I have won, there is no way to loose now. But to kick all the other civs faniex will take a long long time now as most will have tanks when I get there.
    I know Inf+art eats that but we're talking about 1900 AD or later. I'll see if I finish this one as I just played a similar with Boudica.
     
  4. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    @Pengu:
    Spoiler :
    You mean Babylonians, when you say Ottoman's, right? First I thought you had sent them to the green AI (Zara) and then brought them back to attack Izzy, which would be a bit strange...

    But yeah, this map gets a bit tedious towards the end... I know the feeling!


    My game, 1660AD:
    Spoiler :
    After capping AC and Hammy I went after Izzy. She has a ton of rifles and grenadiers, but it's really no problem. I use airships to soften the toughest defenders, then a couple of CRIII redcoats to kill the strongest ones at about 90% odds, after which my cannon stack can move in and get the rest of her massive defending stacks down on their knees, usually without any own casualties. Then the remaining rifles can walk in and kill them off without getting scratched and quickly move on to the next city. Have taken 5 cities from her, but there is a ton of micro with all the freshly conquered cities from AC and Hammy, so this is really slow.

    I will have to put the game on hiatus now over the Christmas holidays. Might be able to pick it up again sometime next week. After capping Izzy I will cross the sea to invade France and Russia. Mongol land is next in line, then I'll beat up that Ethiopian dude a bit and hopefully I should be close to domination.
     
  5. Pengu

    Pengu Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
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    428
    Until 1842 AD

    Spoiler :

    Well, just keep on slogging. After Izzy capped I some galleons rdy and upgraded my units to inf/arty and sent them at Darius. He capped reasonably fast and I gave back his cities as his culute would kill them. He is going cultural but only his capitol is at legendary.Then it turned tougher. Zara was next but he was much larger and had already capped Gengis. The problem wasn't about winning though, as I was much bigger and ahead in tech, but to cap him. And true enough, with over 21 cities and a 8 city vassal, doing war with inf/arty is slow...
    And I didn't upgrade my galleons so I lost a ton of them.
    But I have taken care of his army and captured 8 of his cities but it will be a long time before he caps, unless Gengis breaks free. Meanwhile, De Gaulle, who is my biggest(only)threat is at was with Peter and it will be bad when he caps him.
    We are both pretty equal in tech and by the time I get to him it will be modern armor, nukes etc. I might get the diplo win after I cap Zara and Gengis just to avoid more slogging :)
     
  6. dmd175

    dmd175 Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Messages:
    236
    Location:
    Mountains
    Spoiler :
    After 1350 it was cruise control to the end. I decided to try for a diplo victory since I'm not sure I've ever got that win condition. I was friendly with Izzy and briefly with Darius. Zara and Genghis pleased. De Gaulle didn't like me b/c he was worst enemies with Izzy. Zara actually declared on me, I killed like 5 of his ships and he made peace, and that same turn reopened borders with me and went from annoyed to pleased with OB. (is that normal for him?). anyway, had about 10 diplo elections and I was trying to get De Gaulle, Genghis, or Darius to vote for me and despite showering them with gifts they would only abstain. Zara was 2nd in power and he, Peter, and De Gaulle were all in Buddhism. fun map, but I think taking out AC was the right early move. Rome became an absolute beast city. In the BCs I chopped 6 forests for the GLH, and then all those hills were mined and the rest cottaged, and in the end it was my top production and finance city and built 9 wonders.
     
  7. Pengu

    Pengu Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
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    428
    Finally over!
    Imm 1880 diplo

    Spoiler :

    I just wanted it over with in the end. I had over 50 cities with all but De Gaulle and Peter as vassals. I was spanking them after taking out both of their stacks but took the diplo route when it presented itself.
    Zara did cap a bit faster than I thought after Gengis broke free. Then I had to go to his island cities and take one of them and he broke. De Gaulle just vassaled Peter 2 turns before I was going to attack him which made it a bit more difficult. But with modern armor, artillery and Infantry they had no chance. The tech pace dropped quite alot when I started vassaling people and preventing them from trading. So they weren't close to modern armor. I still think that getting too many cities early on will make the game longer and more annoying, but also makes you much less vurnurable.
     
  8. dmd175

    dmd175 Warlord

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    Location:
    Mountains
    I left that hut South of Rome until my border pop got it:

    Spoiler :

    in 1380
    Spoiler :
     
  9. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    @Pengu: Good job! I think you are the first to complete this map and publicly admit it! Let's raise a toast in your general direction. :xmascheers:

    Should I put a list of finish dates in the 2nd post?

    @dmd: what is your plan for the game? Did you lib yet?
     
  10. dmd175

    dmd175 Warlord

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    Not sure why not more interest in the game. What happened to SOM?

    ^^
    Plan was diplo, too lazy to beat up Izzy or the other island

    Re lib
     
  11. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Interest does seem a bit slow atm, perhaps due to the holidays?

    I may go back to the poor attempt at this game and try a breakout, but it will be tough. Besides, I don't have the save available here, so it wouldn't be for a few weeks, at which point everybody will have moved on anyway :|
     
  12. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    I'm guessing due to the holidays.

    But the game is also quite slow... Played a few more turns to 1700AD:
    Spoiler :
    Took 5 more cities from Izzy, including her cap with (+31:gold: shrine), but she still won't capitulate. She has 2 more crappy cities on the continent in the southern tundra, she'd better capitulate after I grab those! Will it reduce the risk of captured cities revolting if she has no cities on the continent (no cultural land borders)?

    Then I have a ton of galleons and frigates ready and will ship my army east to France asap. I'll cap De Gaulle first, then Peter, after this Genghis should be a piece of cake and if necessary I shall then go after Zara. I don't think it'll be needed to invade Darius to get domination.
     
  13. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    I played it, but my game was pretty much won by 1AD and i used the rest of the game to experiment with various things.
     
  14. dalamb

    dalamb Deity

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    Kingston, Ontario
    Pro isn't that popular, but with Cha/Pro you get Drill II Redcoats with just a barracks, and Drill IV is just 8 XP IIRC.
     
  15. Rainy Days

    Rainy Days Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
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    Spoiler :

    I think your save looks pretty chaotic. Imho you should have tried to grab the marble for the great library. Without marble it's kind of "meh". I think in the current situation it would've made more sense to make coventry your GP farm and not build any wonders.

    I know you successfully finished the game but at this point I would've told you: more workers, more chopping, more tile improvements, less buildings/wonders. Also I hope you took all that gold that is available for trade. :)

     
  16. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    Thank you for the comments RD!
    Spoiler :
    I can agree with more workers, which then would have led to more improvements and chops.

    About the buildings, I was mostly fighting a culture war. Borsippa stole both the horse and deer and at the time library was the only culture building I had available to build. Apparently I put monuments in both of the northern cities later to make sure I don't lose the tiles again. And Nottingham is working on winning back the gold. Also, the first time I play tested this map on emp York culture flipped to Hammy, so I might have been a bit too paranoid about defending my cultural borders...
     
  17. byang08

    byang08 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    79
    Emperor 1947 Space

    Spoiler :


    Axe rushed AC, killed Hammy with Cannon/Redcoats, then finished off Izzy with modern units. Intercontinental warfare seemed difficult so I half assedly went for space.
     
  18. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    @byang08:
    Spoiler :
    Congrats on winning the game!

    Any particular reason why you decided to wipe out Hammy and Izzy completely instead of taking vassals?
     
  19. byang08

    byang08 Chieftain

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    Spoiler :

    With Hammy, all of his cities were on one continent so I thought mind as well. I guess I could've vassal'd Izzy after conquering the main continent but I stupidly wanted to try for domination before I realized how dumb that is.

    For this game I replayed the opening axe rush multiple times. I found it's best to steal the first worker, but not the second. That way AC will build SH in Rome while keeping his number of archers down. If you steal both workers, Rome will have too much defense. I'm not certain whether 3 or 4 whipping the first settler is better, I whipped on 3, then whipped London to about 50 unhappiness and York to about 30. I forgot the exact date but I ended up attacking with 6 or so axemen which easily took out the two archers defending. I was also able to kill AC off before he got out his second city, but I'm sure I got lucky with that, not that it would matter too much.

    My lib date was around 950 AD, I built no wonders and never got aesthetics, opting for alpha, math, currency and backtrading after the war. I'm very certain that if I micro'd better and had a clearer understanding of what I wanted to do, from specializing cities to peace vs. war, everything could've been done much much faster. As it stands this was a very sloppy victory. Hopefully I can play the next NC better and move onto immortal afterwards. Thanks for the map.
     
  20. dalamb

    dalamb Deity

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    @byang08: Thanks for doing all that replaying, because:
    Spoiler :
    I found it counterintuitive that stealing 2 workers was worse than stealing one. I guess it's because he brushes off losing the first worker but then decides he really needs lots more troops if you steal the second?
     

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