Nobles' Club LI: Mao Zedong of China

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by dalamb, Jun 6, 2010.

  1. 4077 Mash

    4077 Mash Chieftain

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    And onto the end of my game (Noble/Epic):

    Spoiler :
    Pretty much stuck to the plan as I outlined above. Finished Literature, and then went for Music (settled the GA in Beijing)>Civil Service (switched to Bureau)>Drama>Machinery (for defense)>Calendar (for resources) >Paper>Education>Liberalism (used the free tech for Nationalism).
    Spread the three religions as much as possible, and built/whipped 9 Temples for each religion. Beijing, Shanghai, and Nanjing got three Cathedrals each, and a Pavillion. I built Parthenon, Sistine Chapel, and finally Taj in Beijing. I got some more luck and got an event that gave me a free (settled) Great Artist in Beijing.

    Near the end of my Golden Age in 1390 AD, I switched to Rep/Free Speech/Caste/Pacifism, and cranked up the culture slider. With most of my cities building wealth, I was able to still make a profit at 90%, so I would flip between 90% and 100% as appropriate.
    I actually culture flipped a couple of Babylonian cities, but liberated them, improving my relationship with Hammurabi even more. I culture flipped a barbarian city as well, which I kept.

    With Caste, I started running as many artist specialists as I could. This time I used them to build Great Works in Nanjing (mostly) and Shanghai (just two). I also ended up with a stray Great Engineer (which I used for another Golden Age) and a Great Merchant (which I used for a trade mission to keep my culture slider at 100% just a little longer). Both of those came from Shanghai, which I think occurred because the game must have assigned some specialists without me realizing it. Never did end up with a Great Spy, which was OK with me in this game.

    I finally met everyone else, and while everyone else was annoyed with me (different religion, trading with worst enemies, etc.), no one attacked me. Hammurabi and Isabella ended up with a defensive pact and fought Catherine and Pericles, though. I know I gave two techs to Catherine when she demanded them, and one to Pericles. I did through all this time keep using Guangzhou to pump out units, so I was fairly well defended.

    Although I was using rep, I fell behind somewhat behind in tech (although I was able to trade for some), but it really did not matter. In 1796:






    Thoughts:

    Spoiler :
    1. I need to brush up on whipping. BUG helps, but I think I could have won even earlier if I would have finished my Temples quicker and then moved to Caste earlier.

    2. That being said, this was my first cultural victory without a Philosophical leader. It is also the first time I can recall going through a whole game without war with an AI. (I did capture one barbarian city by force). I still think I got very lucky with how the early religions played out compared to the other games I read in this thread.

    3. I think I will finish up my NC 49 Churchill game, and then maybe it's time to start trying Prince.
     
  2. dalamb

    dalamb Deity

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    Sounds like I goofed again on amount of territory available for the AIs to expand into. That's something I learned to watch for from TMIT, but it's harder for me to figure out than I first expected.
     
  3. NihilZero

    NihilZero WHEOOHRNY

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    Well I wouldn't say you goofed, it's a nice map and I like it. If some of us insist on playing on Immortal than that's our problem. ;)

    There are nearly 120 total cities on the map in my game. Quite a lot for standard size.
     
  4. drlake

    drlake Emperor

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    I agree that it isn't a "goof" per se. You aren't building a map for Immortal+ gaming, though people can play it at that level. You're building it for middle difficulty levels (Noble - Monarch). While I find it challenging to deal with all the space at my current tech level (just shy of Gunpowder/Liberalism) I'm sure that as I move into the Renaissance and Modern eras it will no longer be a problem. That said, I'd guess that something like 10% of the map is still vacant as of almost 1400 in my current game, and that seems a bit late for such a large amount of empty space.
     
  5. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I also agree it wasn't a goof. It's not the hosts fault that this game was not balanced so that all settings are playable at high levels.

    A lot of the land on this map is very, very poor quality, since it seems to have some impressive polar caps :p. AI shouldn't settle there and neither should the player, barring a late push for land %.
     
  6. dalamb

    dalamb Deity

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    I found that this round of map-making was tough. I usually don't regenerate much, but needed it a lot on this one. The first half-dozen or so maps were really bad or really odd. In fact on one I got one huge continent and one small one, the small one all arctic. Maybe the RNG gods were in a humourous mood.
     
  7. NihilZero

    NihilZero WHEOOHRNY

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    The dumbass AIs are all over the poles in my game. :lol: Much of it is captured barb settlements, though. There are some tasty resources in the ice too, so a junk city could end up helping your whole empire.
     
  8. L-Plate Ruler

    L-Plate Ruler Warlord

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    @ 4077 Mash

    Good job, and nicely executed strategy.

    You've inspired me. It's 1950 in my game and it'll be another space victory, boring. Tonight I'll roll back to the 1 AD save and try for a cultural win.
     
  9. DampRain

    DampRain Prince

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    Grats on your win Mash, well done! :)
     
  10. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

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    Immortal/Normal 125 BC
    Spoiler :


    I finished the pyramids 1600 BC, chopped the forge out a few turns later and ran the engineer grabbing machinery at 1000 BC. Here is the capital putting out Cho-Kos.



    The land we have has a lot of hammers. It is a great starting location. I didn't even bother building Cho-Kos in Shanghai - I built the Colossus, some settlers and now work boats to grab all the seafood on the southern peninsula.


    Hammurabi's land is garbage. Hes getting about 50bpt right now. I may be able to take him out before he gets feudalism. ( He went monarchy - alphabet and just started feudalism ) I've got 5 Cho-Kos here - in 10 turns 4 maybe 5 more could show up to attack Akkad. Taking Akkad would drop his bpt in half probably :) Oh - why does Hammurabi have a 4food 1 hammer cottage there by his capital? :)



    Luckily for me Spain built some forts on the flood plains - much more useful than villages would have been. I think Spain got pillaged by the barbs terribly. Izzy had 3 cities as of 500 BC. EDIT - I should add that Spain has currency which I will take after grabbing the capital. That and trade routes with Russia should be enough to allow me to get my research going again shortly.


     
  11. L-Plate Ruler

    L-Plate Ruler Warlord

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    LOL, well my plans for a cultural victory (while on track) were dashed in 1655 AD...
    Spoiler :

    Sury won a diplo victory :mad:

     
  12. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

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    TMIT - just read your play through, just think if you had had the landsknecht :)
     
  13. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

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    And does anyone think its possible to Cho-Ko on to domination/conquest? How does the Cho-Ko fare against longbows?
     
  14. Makesh

    Makesh Chieftain

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    Never done a NC before. May as well give it a shot...

    Noble Difficulty/Quick Speed

    4000 BC- Thoughts:Love the starting location. Heavily forested to whip some settlers out, couple of hills for production, corn, elephants are all good. It seems like a very balanced start. Haven't done any recon with my warrior considering its turn 1, but to the south there is more forest. I wish I would have settled 1N... would have grabbed another corn as well as a marble. Oh well. I'll have to make do with what I have.
    First build will be a warrior, I'll switch to worker on Pop size 2 or 3, and proceed to maybe get some settlers out. Depending on my neighbors, I'm not sure how to proceed with fortifying my cities... 1 archer, 2, even 3 if I have borders with Alex or someone...

    My initial tech will be BW, then most likely the wheel to get corn hooked up. After that I'll choose either Masonry or AH. Looks promising, I hope this game will go far.
     
  15. drlake

    drlake Emperor

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    @Grashopa

    The Cho's aren't a good matchup for Longbows, except after proper application of siege. :)



    Bummer, L-Plate.
     
  16. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    actually I tried it yesterday a bit and have mixed feelings. I built something like 20 cho-kus and went owning my nearest west neighbor. First city guarded with 2 longbows mediocre culture went quickly losing i think only 2 cho-kus.
    Then got deeply in enemy territory, against stacked city with macemans and longbows and well I have to say ironically bigger problem were macemans, had so bad luck against them... afterall I had to stop because of AP, but that was cho-kus unrelated.
    I would say that on monarch they are viable against longbows, you just think one part of them as kamikaze siege. I am not sure now i could probably give them anti-archer bonus and shock, so i tried to alternate, because enemy had mix of crossbows, longbows and maceman. I would definitely bring them spy along and have enough EP, but could do without, but bigger losses.

    The protective trait gives you nice edge against non-protective LBs, with one general I produced level 2 unit with drill1, cover, combat right away, or drill1, shock, combat and that's almost guarantee you WILL do some damage (sometimes with catapults you do no damage to primary defender at all).

    But the game situation was not good for cho-kus, I had to stop against that AI, because of unhappy after first defy. So I waited a bit for cavalry and made another rush :), but that's completely other story I will probably tell later.
     
  17. cherrysnowdrop

    cherrysnowdrop Chieftain

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    Learning a lot from these series! :) So, for a cultural victory you don't actually have to start at the very beginning of the game? As far as I understand it's a desicion made later for some players here. I get cultural victories in the end, but it's a bit of a struggle.

    I'd love to try out a NC game but I play on a different computer. Is there any way to transfer the load to another computer?
     
  18. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    :rolleyes: why would I need that when

    Spoiler :


    The opponent has NO HORSE AT ALL :p?

    CKNs are literally better against every single class of unit I faced when I moved into enemy territory.

     
  19. Makesh

    Makesh Chieftain

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    Played up to Turn 50 on Quick Noble (1000 BC)...

    Spoiler :

    I had some great luck with Goody Huts. The one by my border popped Masonry before I even got BW. Because of this, I was able to hook up Marble much earlier than anticipated. Wrong resource, but I did complete the Great Wall (forgot to check turn), so no Barbs to worry about here!

    My first enounter was with Hammurabi on Turn 15. I have yet to see his borders (even on Turn 50), so I am partially at a loss as to where to expand. Izzy was met the same turn I founded Shanghai.... I sacrificed a river/coastal cities for the 3 resources in the BFC. The very next turn Ham asked for OB, which I said yes to. Izzy followed suit and asked for OB on turn 42. 5 turns later, Guangzhou was founded to the south of my capital, snagging a few food resources in its cross...

    Tech:
    Masonry (hut) > BW > Hunting > Wheel > AH > Archery > Pottery > Myst > Writing > HR (hut) > IW

    And I will grab Aestetics in 3 turns. I plan on pursuing an early Pavillion path, possibly even 1st to music.

    Build Queues:
    Nothing too fascinating here. Beijing went Warrior, Worker, Warrior (for Shang escort), and then perhaps another worker before I went on a few turns on Archer/Settler trade off for REX-ing. However, I think I only have 3 workers... I think it will be best to stay at 4 cities and get some more workers and military up.

    - Beijing (Settler 1 turn)
    - Shangzhou (Monument 6 turns)
    - Guangzhou (Monument 4 turns)

    Other Stuff:
    - Running 100% science and losing 3 GPT
    - 4th city will be located at that site where 3 wines will be in the BFC (debating whether or not to cottage them)
    - Holding off on early REX after this, will drop science a bit, possibly.
    - Culture vic definatley looks like the way I want to go. Zoomed out and saw that on the culture map, I see no borders other than my own on revealed tiles!
    - Couple of questions...
    1) How Aggressive is Ham? I've never played with him before.
    2) Should I continue with Rex? It looks like I have plenty of room, but I want to keep science decently high without resorting to scientists to taint my soon-to-be artist factories.


    Here is a screenie of what the empire looks like now...
    Spoiler :


    How am I doing? Any questions for me? Any really stupid things I missed? Should I have gone that way with placing Shangzhou?

    Thanks!
     
  20. drlake

    drlake Emperor

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    @Makesh
    Spoiler :

    First, answers:
    Hammurabi is somewhat aggressive, but no where near as much as Izzy. I didn't have any problem getting hi to Pleased (where he won't plan for war).
    You've got a LOT of land available. I'd get at least a couple of GSs for Academies and the like, before worrying about a pure Artist pool. In other words, keep expanding for a bit, yet.

    Other comments:
    Shanghai isn't placed very well. 1 off the coast is rarely a good idea, and isn't necessary for blocking or resources in the case of that city. You'd have been better off going 1W for the coast, 2S for the coast and Wheat, or farther north for the Corn and Pig.
    Guangzhou is better, but not ideal. When you don't have easy border pops, you are usually better of settling with at least some high food tiles in your first ring. Due to Beijing's culture you could be working the Sheep, but since you haven't improved it yet there is no benefit to doing so. Improve that tile ASAP.
    1SW of C is a better spot for your next city. Again, food tiles in the first ring for faster growth, and there is other stuff in the fog you can't see yet that makes that location better.

    In general, it looks like you have way too few workers. You've got multiple resources with no improvements within your cultural borders, and Beijing and Guangzhou are working unimproved tiles. You should have irrigated the tile W of Shanghai rather than Cottaged (growth first!) and shouldn't be messing with a mine there yet given your shortage of workers. Nothing you can't recover from, but the rule-of-thumb is 1.5 workers per city and it works quite well for speeding early expansion.
     

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