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Nobles' Club LIV: Peter the Great of Russia

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by dalamb, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

    Our next leader is Peter of Russia. The Russians start with Hunting and Mining.

    • Traits: I've designed the map to encourage Noble-level players to try a One City Challenge, but it can be played any way you like. Peter's traits synthesize well with a specialist economy, which is critical in OCC strategies. EXP means +2:health:, which allows your city to grow bigger sooner (and thus run more specialists sooner), plus faster workers, granaries, and harbours (the latter two having :health: advantages, too). PHI means faster production of great people, which when settled significantly boost a specialist economy for an OCC.
    • His UB: The Research Institute, a Laboratory that gives 2 free scientists. In a space race the +50% spaceship production is very important for an OCC, and the free scientists boost late-game :science: for those last critical techs.
    • His UU: The Cossack, a Cavalry unit that gets +50% versus mounted units.
    I've heavily edited the map to make an OCC easier, guided by some of the remarks in a thread I started when I first decided to do this..
    Spoiler map details :
    I created an initial Pangaea map, high sea levels, two extra AIs. This crowds the AIs so they have less territory, meaning your one-city disadvantage is somewhat offset. I added many important resources near the starting location, so elements important to an OCC are readily accessible.
    And thus the highly favourable start:

    If you want to play as an OCC, choose "Custom Scenario" from the single player menu and check the option that does this. I'll post my own OCC plans in my first message after this one, which will summarize various advice I've heard about playing OCC for a spaceship victory -- along with a few comments about other victory conditions.

    Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

    There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

    Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

    4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
    1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
    500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
    1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other continent if applicable, etc)
    1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
    End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

    Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strategies don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

    We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

    Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

    The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 54 Peter Noble" (or Monarch, if you want the AI to start with its usual Archery bonus tech, or Immortal for Archery+Hunting, or Deity to add Agriculture). This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

    Note for those who hate goody huts: open the WB save file with a text editor and delete all lines that say
     

    Attached Files:

  2. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    Summary of advice I've heard:
    1. You get 5 national wonders instead of 2, but that means you're still seriously limited. I think there's a consensus that you need:
      • National Epic for even faster Great People production.
      • Globe Theatre for eliminating happiness limits to city size (and thus allowing more specialists). You only need one theatre for this under the special OCC rules.
      • Oxford University, which requires only one university.
      • Ironworks for the production boost.
      There is less agreement about the fifth:
      • uberfish avoided Heroic Epic, but others said you still need troops even if you're being peaceful, and the production boost is critical.
      • Some people try to preserve trees in the BFC for the National Park, which eliminates pollution and turns forest preserves into more specialists, but others say it's essential to chop the capital bare in the early game. OTOH you can do some chopping in an OCC: everything outside the BFC.
    2. You're going to need settled great people to generate enough :science: :hammers: :gold: from a single city (which is why PHI is important).
    3. One world wonder is tremendously important: the Pyramids, for the :science: boost from the many specialists you'll run. Others recommended by uberfish:
    I'm going to settle in place (3:hammers: in the capital and no need for quarrying the stone -- one of my many edits) and follow the advice summarized above. Worker-first could camp the deer right away and farm the rice soon if you go for agriculture quickly, but I think I prefer Fishing > BW and build warrior (until fishing) > workboat > finish warrior > worker.

    Concerning the space elevator: 2000 :hammers: to build. Normal cost for spaceship parts is:
    • 1000 :hammers: for cockpit
    • 2000 :hammers: for docking bay
    • 1000 :hammers: for life support
    • 1200 :hammers: for stasis chamber
    • 5x1200 :hammers: for casings (you can't risk failure, so need all 5)
    • at least 1600+1200 :hammers: for one engine and one thruster
    I think +50% production after the Elevator means your :hammers: boost by 50%, meaning the parts require 2/3 the hammers (and thus you save 1/3 of the above numbers). Total is normally 14,000:hammers:, so 1/3 means saving 4666 hammers, minus the 2000 for the elevator itself. Seems like a win to me -- aside from the diversion of tech to Robotics, which some prefer to skip entirely since it's a dead end tech.

    Edit: Space ship, diplomatic, and conquest victories are clearly possible. If you make a permanent alliance you can do domination and culture, too.
     
  3. drlake

    drlake Chieftain

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    I'll probably do this as a normal game, even though that'll effectively make it EZ-mode.
     
  4. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    You could try going up a difficulty level -- or if your current level is proving a little tough, take this as pleasant relaxation instead of intense conflict. ;)
     
  5. Framesticker

    Framesticker Chieftain

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    Oh, I've been falling in love with OCCs in the past few days. Completed both of those crazy Deity OCC challenges (the Always War and the Fantasy Realm one, forgot who posted it) and I'm in for some regular OCCs this time. We need a series for this.
     
  6. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

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    Settling 1N gets the extra fish in the city. I'm not sure if it's cooked enough to know if I would lose a resource in my outer ring, but likely worth it. Of course, since we know the map is edited, we can't trust that the forests below are void of resources which would be useful to us.

    The issue with the space elevator is the +50% is applied the same as all the other bonuses. So if you have bureaucracy/forge/factory/power/lab, that's already +200% to SS parts, so adding an extra +50% really means very little on top of that.
     
  7. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

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    I don't like OCC myself (never tried though) I will probably play it normal as drlake too.
    I would try it on Emperor from Monarch save, since that is where my aspirations lie now (for 10 seconds I thought about trying Immortal with monarch save, but well I am affraid that I sometimes struggle on prince so that would lead to complete disaster, but could be usefull lesson :-D).

    I always get confused with the screenshots, but if the settler is on stone than I would probably settle 1N 1 turn later.

    I see there 5 health in BFC that's great. Only 1 happy in BFC that is not so great and I think happy cap solution will really push noble players for finding ways out (and that is always good).
     
  8. L-Plate Ruler

    L-Plate Ruler Chieftain

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    Don't know what OCC is so I'm going to play this on Monarch, Normal and maybe do the OCC afterwards.

    Starting Thoughts: Settle 1N of the stone, this city will be my GPF I haven't finished a game on Monarch yet so won't speculate on victory type yet.
     
  9. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

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    one city challenge. You will have only 1 city and must win.

    That's why dalamb made it so strong.
     
  10. drlake

    drlake Chieftain

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    Heh, I just went up to Emperor on the Justinian game (which I haven't finished yet). I'll do this at Emperor as well, and will enjoy it being Emp-lite. :)
     
  11. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    Thanks for the reminder! I may choose to recalculate, but it sounds like the odds are good it won't be worthwhile. If only robotics got something useful, like a production boost.
     
  12. cripp7

    cripp7 Playin' Bored

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    With this save if you actually want play an OCC, you'll have to mark it as OCC in Custom Game. otherwise the standard wb-save plays like a regular game! Didn't realize until I hit Education and went to build Ox (1/6 required), so I have a huge SSE capitol and just vassaled Pascal.
     
  13. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

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    If it gave -33% (like Kremlin), where it would be multiplicative with the other bonuses, then it'd be worth it.

    It is useful in that it can be bulbed with a GE, unlike spaceship parts. But even if you have the GE around, at best it would likely save a turn on the spaceship, assuming you can keep up in tech.
     
  14. L-Plate Ruler

    L-Plate Ruler Chieftain

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    Oh, cheers.

    Alright, I'll play OCC then :)
     
  15. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    I did say so, but maybe I should have put it in bright red or something.
     
  16. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

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    Played the Immortal save on Monarch difficulty (normally an Emp player). Space win in 1888 (no intermediates - OCC goes so fast)

    Spoiler :

    Settled 1N to get the extra fish. Worker first, then built a wb, a couple warriors, then wonderspammed. Mansa was teching really fast (like, when I met him, he had alphabet, construction, iron working that I didn't, and I didn't have anything he was missing).

    Standard OCC. Got an early Globe to grow big, NE, Oxford, Iron Works, and NP. Didn't chop any BFC forests except the Gold until the end when I workshopped them all for the space ship run (not that I needed it - was way ahead in tech by that point). That left me with 12 national park forests.

    Never got into a real war. Hatty and Pacal were friendly neighbours, so I joined a few fake wars with them. Privateers got me my only GG.

    Liberalism->Physics.

    Otherwise, here's my final city shot:


    Only wasted about 3-4 GP in bulbing/Golden ages, and thankfully was pretty lucky overall. Only 1-2 spies and I don't think I got an artist all game. Pushed culture to legendary on the turn before my spaceship landed.
     
  17. happyturtle

    happyturtle Mrs GrumpyOldCivver

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    I'll do it as a OCC from the Monarch save at Prince difficulty. Goody huts off.
     
  18. LydianRain

    LydianRain Chieftain

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    Hi all, I'm new to the Nobles' Club, new to the forums, and even mostly new to Civ 4! But I gave this a shot on Monarch. Please feel free to critique my decision-making process. This was my first OCC ever so I would not be surprised if there were some glaring mistakes.

    Spoiler :




    Settled 1N for the fish. Decided to start with a worker and fishing, but couldn't decide between Fishing → Agriculture → BW to avoid wasting worker turns, or Fishing → BW to clear the gold and kick up the economy. Finally went with the latter. My reasoning was that I can't grow past size 5 without hooking up the gold anyway, so why should I be in a big hurry to secure 6 food tiles? I finally have the bright idea to mine the stone during my idle turns. Surely the extra hammers are a good thing.

    Got AH for free from a hut. Got the wheel to grow to size 6 and masonry for the great wall, as I've got the stone and the hammers to spare, and I don't see any horses or bronze. In the meantime I put some hammers into a barracks, because I'm feel pretty unconcerned about scouting early.

    Pottery before writing, as the great wall will delay my library anyway. Still in no hurry to get agriculture, and the thought of cottaging the rice has crossed my mind. :) Immediately making the pyramids seems like the thing to do. Representation looks nice...

    After 2,240 years of excellent reconnaissance, my scout is killed gloriously.

    Whip in a granary, go ahead and cottage the rice. I notice it's the same yield as a flood plains, which assuages my guilt somewhat. Settle a great spy, start running some scientists. Get alphabet. None of the computers even have writing yet, so I'm comfortable grabbing mathematics for the hanging gardens before going after the great library—marble will be within my borders by then, so it seems like good timing.

    Another great spy. Trade for sailing, slip the moai statues in before the great library, (later realize that this was a huge mistake!) make an academy with a great scientist. Starting to wish I had made a second worker earlier, so I slip one in between wonders. Globe theater. National Epic. Switch to bureaucracy and caste. Bulb paper. De-cottage rice. Parthenon. Haven't met everybody yet so I squeeze out a chariot to poke around. Oxford.



    Liberalism → Astronomy. Time to decide how I'm going to win this. Also looking forward to seeing that new Egpytian city get annihilated by my culture.

    Peter's UB has tempted me to go for a space victory. :) In any case, beelining biology seems logical.

    Angkor Wat. Sistine Chapel. Maybe building research would have been a better use of the hammers. Notre Dame. Build research. World war breaks out, fortunately it doesn't involve me. Get a national park.

    My production seems fine for the moment, so I'm going to go directly for the research institute. There's a free great scientist and one of the recommended wonders on the way, so this feels solid. I can go for iron works in a bit. (so I think, but I forgot to add the moai statues to my list of national wonders)

    After superconductors, do some trades (everybody's way behind) and get steel, then go straight for rifling to make sure I can defend myself competently if the computers ever make good on their threats, then into assembly line. Detour to get sushi.

    Radio for some wonders, industrialism.



    OK, 1665. Egyptian city's still not dead, but let's get started winning. Going straight for the space elevator and going to start churning stuff out. End up grabbing Mining Inc. through the Fusion engineer.

    Realize a bit late that my production can do better with state property and workshops. Start deflating my size-40, thirty-million-person city. Continuing to make sure nobody hates me.

    Not much else to do. The end drags so much that I miss the Egyptian city culture-death that I'd been waiting for for more than a thousand years.



    This was easier than I thought it would be, but I definitely learned a new appreciation for the power of specialists!

     
  19. Framesticker

    Framesticker Chieftain

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    A lazy 1914 Space Victory, Emperor/Normal

    Spoiler :
    Was a very easy game. I basically turtled throughout the entire game and started going for space techs in around 1500AD. Got Biology from Liberalism in about 900AD Probably could've gotten something better but I couldn't be bothered that much. After that, I preserved all the forests I had (I chopped that one with Uranium on it back in the ancient era to get the Mids a turn sooner) giving me 8 free specialists in the end. . In fact, the only real problem I'd encoutered in the whole game is Hatty trying to do Culture, which was easily solved by bribing Victoria, Isabella and Washington into war with her with Medicine, Superconductors and Military Tradition respectively. With a huge tech lead and some decent GP production, this OCC is quite easy.
     
  20. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    I played OCC Noble/Normal, achieved an AP diplomatic win in 1705 AD, then went back and did the spaceship victory I originally wanted, in 1927 AD. I expect to post details later after I've taken a rest away from the computer.
     

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