Nobles' Club LXIX: Bismark of Germany

well the the trick in civ3 was completely different, it was just the old give me something big (cash goods, techs) for GPT, and then I cancel it.

in civ4 you cannot do this.

also mind, that you can only do this with leaders that have gpt avaiable, and only up to that amount.
since the leaders have max GPT set depending on how they like you.
so the intial amount is the max amount for 1 trade.
if they have 0 gpt avaiable, it means they do deficit research, it can be any deep...... so you just throw your gpt into the toilet




otherwise they put the gift straight to the deficit.

actually there is a guide directly in SEVPEDIA ingame for this.... if you have bug mod, but i forgot the name of the article

Ok, ya it was civ 4 that I was thinking of. But I thought they patched it or something. I just tested it and indeed you can do this, you need a lot of resources that an AI' doesn't, maybe useful with an AI with not much land.

@ stevoh

You build the oracle and choose MC when you are 1 turn away from monarchy???? You could have picked fuedalism which is like 1200 beakers vs 700 beakers for MC.

Then you're self teching IW when I know you can trade for it....:crazyeye:

Why bother with collossus? You don't even have much seafood that I can see. It's a weak WW anyway, the only reason I'd build it is for the fail gold, or maybe if I was Fin with lots of seafood.

Cottaging non riverside tiles in Berlin when you have plenty of mines and collossus... waste of worker turns.

Well that's my critique whether you wanted it or not:D
 
@ stevoh

You build the oracle and choose MC when you are 1 turn away from monarchy???? You could have picked fuedalism which is like 1200 beakers vs 700 beakers for MC.

Then you're self teching IW when I know you can trade for it....:crazyeye:

Why bother with collossus? You don't even have much seafood that I can see. It's a weak WW anyway, the only reason I'd build it is for the fail gold, or maybe if I was Fin with lots of seafood.

Cottaging non riverside tiles in Berlin when you have plenty of mines and collossus... waste of worker turns.

Well that's my critique whether you wanted it or not:D

Spoiler :
Hmmm, i have obviously not thought about getting feud from the oracle,it just never occured to me, mabey i'll restart and take your feedback onboard, I know i really should've teched alpha first, i thought i should go for asethetics since it was emperor and also because i saw HC tech currency even though no one had alpha. Your right about IW, that is a waste of beakers.
 
Space win 1966AD.

Spoiler :
I restarted and SIPed, My tech was Agri-AH-Masnory-BW-Wheel-Pottery-Writing-To monarchy-Alpha-Currency-Aseth-CS-Philo-Paper-edu-lib. I had to research asethetics even though i was the first to alpha because i was suffering from maintence. I had 9 cities by 1 AD and JC and HC were ahead, so i needed trade bait.




Jc then Dowed on HC which lasted for well over 1000 years! Mad, i'm suprised HC did'nt peace vassle. JC was confu and demanded for me to convert, so i did as i wanted to build and did'nt want preats causing trouble.The stupid barb galleys gave me a bit of trouble aswell.




I got lib at an average 1200AD's date, i got printing press right from it. This really helped as my empire was basically cottages (yes even plains, im lazy!:)) I made some pretty good tech trades this game and even got JC to friendly untill i went to war with HC and capped him.Even after taking 1 city HC was willing to cap but I left him with one crappy tundra island city, but this annoyed JC a bit and he dropped to cautious for a bit, but later went back to pleased.





I also got circumnav, and met the rest of the world. Booty call was the worst enemy of stailn (war) and i noticed that stailn was going culture. He later peace vassled to jaou, who was No 1 in land with no war. I though Stalin a lesson for doing this though.

I used mariens, Infantry destroyers and razed all his costal cities and also burned moscow, i gotta say i love mariens, but i had to dow on Jaou who also got the internet. Back home i got an engineer for MiningINC and switched into Free marked later environmentalism.





My final civics were US/FM/EMP/EN/FR. My core cities, especially my ironwork Corn/pigs/gold city was very productive, most space parts were completed withen 9 turns. The only annoying thing about this game was the constant Great spys that i was getting even though i wanted scientists, however Spy's are better than priests. As for wonders i got GW, Henge, and Kremlin. Combined with Grocer/Market/Bank this was great. It was a very fun game, even if i restarted a few times (trying to get feud from oracle, did'nt work). Thanks for hosting Dalamb, hopefully i can try the next one at immortal. Im pretty confident with emperor. Here are some end game pics and a save.

This is what happens to stupid civs who peace vassle like you stalin








Not a great score, but it's a late win and i'll take it, Happy St Patricks day to everyone.:D
 

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lol, I see in your game you punished stalin for his ignorance even more.....

in my game he didnt peace vassal, but he stayed away from wars on his friendly continent, and tried to escape to space
if he fought like other and kept his tech at stoneage, there would have been no razing

Spoiler :
My only regret is that i did'nt nuke stalin and jaou... trust me it could've been worse!
 
My last update was when getting Lib, a bit late at 1280 AD. This update is 1280 AD up until a 1880 AD Conquest win.

Spoiler :

I didn't take many pictures during this game, cause basically nothing really interesting happened.

At the last update, I was preparing for an attack with Knights on Huayna's Macemen. He did get Feudalism somewhere in that war, but since I had way more cities than he had, it wasn't too difficult at first. When I was about to take the last of his cities on the islands, he vassaled to JC, bringing in the Romans in a war against me.

Since I was stronger than JC, especially military, I decided to continue the war. I built a large fleet as soon as I could, but then I got a nice AP dogpile on me. Kublai Khan declared on me first, and I think he got bribed by JC. Then 2 turns later, the rest of the other continent declares on me, which was probably an AP resolution. I didn't get too scared though, I was ahead of them in tech by quite a lot and I hadn't seen any sizeable fleet that could harm me.
The first few boats dropped units at HC's last cities, and I destroyed him easily. Then my main invasion force took one of JC's cities. I was ready to upgrade to Cavalry and Riflemen by then, which I did, and then I steamrolled him. After I took about 5 or 6 cities he was willing to capitulate. I gave JC back his cities, cause I didn't want to deal with the maintenance, and I figured he'd be a good ally cause of his personality and my plans to war.
During the campaign on JC, which got me a city with Judaism, the AP had a 'Stop the war on Joao' resolution. I clicked yes, but I half expected half of the world to say no. Needless to say, it passed easily, which was nice. I also sent out a little fleet to Kublai Khan, cause he seemed really weak. I should've sent a few more units, cause I only managed to take one city of him. By then I noticed the rest of the AP lovefest wanted to take peace with me, which I accepted. I also gave KK back his cities, cause it would be in a lifetime culture war and only cost me money.

I decided to persue a military victory, so I worked towards Infantry while building my empire. I never switched out of the wartime civics though. When my army was back together, I crossed the sea towards Stalin. He was willing to capitulate after 3 turns of war, in which I took two of his cities.

Surprised by this success, I declared on Boudica right away. I knew she was in a defensive pact with Kublai, but I apparantly missed she was also in a defensive pact with Joao, effectively starting World War 2. She was getting Machine Guns though, but my army was so huge I just sacrificed some units against them. After I took 3 of her cities, she was willing to capitulate. Joao also was willing to take peace, which I accepted. I gave the cities I took from Stalin and Boudica back to them, except for one of Boudica's cities which had coal. I lacked coal on my main island, so I figured it'd be better to keep it in my land, then to trade for it.

That left Kublai Khan as my next target. I got together my army, and the fleet I'd built when attacking JC was still the biggest and strongest in the world. Kublai was a bit harder to convince but he capped after 20 turns of war and 4 lost cities. By now, I expected to get a domination victory, but apparantly it doesn't work that way.
I moved my troops back to Boudica's land, teched towards Flight, and when I got some Fighters to back me up, I declared on Joao. I expected him to be persistent, but he wasn't. Only after two cities he was willing to cap. His main stack was in one of those cities though, so effectively he didn't have any military left.

Some graphs and endgame stuff:











I forgot to take a screen of units lost, but my stack was about 1.5 the size it has in that last screenshot. As you can see, I was runaway this game for all game. I settled the continent we had really agressively, and as a result I could just outpace everybody at everything. It was only my third Prince game (and my third successive win), so I was kinda surprised at how easy it was. It was also the first time ever I got a conquest victory. I'm not much of a warmonger, and also not much of a wonder builder normally, so I tried something different this game. I like the map script, but I don't think this specific setup with starting locations and all turned out balanced. Huayna was just doing nothing in my game, allowing me to settle nearly the entire continent peacefully. Maybe I should just give the next difficulty a shot and see how that goes :)
 
lol, I see in your game you punished stalin for his ignorance even more.....

in my game he didnt peace vassal, but he stayed away from wars on his friendly continent, and tried to escape to space
if he fought like other and kept his tech at stoneage, there would have been no razing

My only regret is that i did'nt nuke stalin and jaou... trust me it could've been worse!
Spoilers gentlemen. Please?

I haven't had a chance to play for a week. Don't think I'll bother now.
 
I think this game has been the strongest start I've ever had.
Prince/huts & events off
1AD:
Spoiler :
I'm about to found my 7th city to the right of Essen, creating an easily defensible border, completing the land blocking for plenty of juicy backfilling. I managed to build Stonehenge, TGW, Mids', GLH. Inca and Rome each have only 3 cities to my 6. The one thing I know I've neglected thus far is military, and JC has been in "weehorn" mode for several turns already. He also still does not have agriculture, lmao. HC was nice enough to bring Jewish Missionaries my way, and the added religious bonus got him into "pleased" with me. I've been doing the binary research thing except for a couple turns I hadn't noticed the slider get moved down to 90% really early on.

Things have been timed extremely well this game. For example I was building a work boat in Berlin to give to another city to the east, and I managed to get it onto the fish on the same round that the border popped and the square became available. I did the same with starting plantations on 2 squares the same turn I got calendar. I also made sure to have roads out in time to both help the settlers get to their spots quicker, and have trade routes in place as soon as the cities were founded. I also payed lots of attention to developing special resources so as to avoid (not perfectly) working unimproved tiles. Crap as I write this I just looked and remembered that now that I'm letting cities grow again thanks to +3 happiness from rep, I need to improve a bunch more tiles! So I guess I'm building some more workers after I finish writing this :lol: .

I'm currently researching Aesthetics for trade bait but also tempted to go for GL. The next 20 turns or so is going to be about peaceful backfilling, with techs focused on improving the economy/tech pace, working my way toward liberalism, and being the first to circumnavigate. I think that instead of worrying about maces, I will focus on naval superiority to counter silly roman fantasies about intercontinental supremacy.

Silly JC is being more like a Shaka this game, he's #1 in power but I bet he's last in tech. On the other hand maybe it's because I have one chariot and a handful of warriors that he's ranked higher. Maybe he only has like 4 axemen.


Question: Can anyone point me to guidelines about settling off-continent? It's profitable up to a point, right?
 
I think this game has been the strongest start I've ever had.
Prince/huts & events off

about your question (info how I decided to expand)
Spoiler :

my rule is that I settle on land as long as possible, even if that means war.
after i got my own continent this was enough.

 
about your question (info how I decided to expand)
[needless spoiler tag removed]
my rule is that I settle on land as long as possible, even if that means war.
after i got my own continent this was enough.

Thanks for trying to help, but that really doesn't answer the question. Allow me to restate for clarity.

My understanding is that you get a commerce bonus via trade routes when you settle on an island/new continent. At some point, continental maintenance balances this out (after a certain pre-defined number of cities? or does it also depend on distance pre-SP?), and eventually the increased maintenance becomes a penalty that starts to become a drag on your empire, at least before/without state property. I am looking to find out the specifics of these mechanics in the game, especially if there's a simple rule of thumb, like "don't found more than 3 cities off continent before state property, unless the new site has gold/gems".

Maybe a forum veteran like TMIT can answer this.
 
@kalidude
There's doubtless a complicated formula behind the profitability of an off-shore city. I just tend to settle one, and see how my total income changes. If my :gold: per turn goes down by less than my :science: per turn went up, the city is profitable immediately. If it didn't, the city needs some time to be profitable, but it might be worth settling more anyway, depending on the circumstances.
 
Thanks for trying to help, but that really doesn't answer the question. Allow me to restate for clarity.

My understanding is that you get a commerce bonus via trade routes when you settle on an island/new continent. At some point, continental maintenance balances this out (after a certain pre-defined number of cities? or does it also depend on distance pre-SP?), and eventually the increased maintenance becomes a penalty that starts to become a drag on your empire, at least before/without state property. I am looking to find out the specifics of these mechanics in the game, especially if there's a simple rule of thumb, like "don't found more than 3 cities off continent before state property, unless the new site has gold/gems".

Maybe a forum veteran like TMIT can answer this.

from 4th city at another island you will feel it heavily. up to 3 it's managable investment

it's calculated for each island separated.
 
from 4th city at another island you will feel it heavily. up to 3 it's managable investment

it's calculated for each island separated.

Thank you! I knew there was something simple like that. So if I understand you correctly, 3 cities per landmass is ok, and total # of landmasses is not part of the calculation. Is that correct?
 
Thank you! I knew there was something simple like that. So if I understand you correctly, 3 cities per landmass is ok, and total # of landmasses is not part of the calculation. Is that correct?

it should be so.
And if you turn of vassals there is no colonial maintenance
 
Monarch/Normal. Played to 675 BC.

Spoiler :

SIP and started on AG->AH


Settled 2nd Gold Site w/pig/corn


Decided to oracle CoL since i'm industrious. So went Myst->Med->PH->Writing. Founded Confucianism



Founded my 3rd city south near the pigs/rice/copper



I used the scientist for an academy in Berlin. Hamburg will be a better research city eventually, but it gave me an immediate 12 beakers while I'm running 2 scientists in Berlin vs. like 6 or so it woulda given me in Hamburg.

Grabbed 4th city next to fish/clams.

My lands as they stand:



techs:



This game seems pretty straightforward. With all that land available I'm going to just keep expanding and I should have so much land that my production can just overwhelm the AI. Although, I still don't know where HC and JC are... As my plan stands, I'll probably go after them w/rifles & trebs later upgraded to infantry/cannons

 
Spoiler :

This games basically in the bag. So I since the last post I just teched up a storm and built up infrastructure. HC didn't expand very much so i got to 12 cities peacefully. Won the lib race and took astro. then got all the techs to build cavalry. after building the taj mahal I switched into nationalism and theo and started drafting/whipping some units to go after rome. Here's the situation at the beginning of the military buildup:

cities:




techs:

civics:


right before my dow, i get this nice bonus


The war w/JC was uninteresting. Cavalry v. longbows/macemen/xbow. a took like 10 cities before capping him. Now I'm in the middle of going after Joao, and I've already taken his capital and 2 other cities. Here's a glimpse:



this games basically done. There was just too much land to expand into considering how much HC underexpanded. I'm gonna probably get a domination victory after taking out joao, then KK. I'm getting sick of microing this war. so TBC

 
1725 AD Domination
Spoiler :

Finished the Cav spam war. W/o having to take any more cities, Joao cap'd to me. Then I went after KK. took like 5 or 6 of his cities and he cap'd. Next went after boudica and cap'd her after taking 3 cities after which I won a domination victory. Here are some of the post game shots:


see the cav spam


Industrious + marble + stone = wonder spam!





final thoughts: too much room to expand made this map too easy. Maybe on a higher difficulty (this is only on monarch) HC doesnt underexpand as much as he did here and it makes it harder. Anyways, nice stress free (as much as civ can be at least) game.

 
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