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Nobles' Club LXX: Sulieman of the Ottomans

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by dalamb, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Messages:
    6,437
    Location:
    Czech Rep.
    @CaF

    very good video :).

    Spoiler :

    1S of gems I was sure from the beginning I saw that spot ;-)
    I would place the 3rd city along the river though... if you go HBR you really don't need copper before natural culture pop and it will reduce the chance of diplo problems with cathy, since she pops borders like crazy
     
  2. CaF

    CaF Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Germany
    thanks man.

    Spoiler :
    Actually I focussed on getting a non-water city and not much else. I wanted to work wheat and copper as tiles and just assist the other 2 cities with some extra units. Copper is not that important as a resource, that's true, but I didn't have another spot. Later in the game I was trading it away all the time.

    Diplo with Cathy was no issue. She was dead pretty quickly.

    Too bad I really butchered the game later on. Sury declared on Zara and bribed Alex in while I was finishing Cathy. I then built up more infra and cities, didn't see that Alex got out of the war, then got daggered (1 turn after I noticed). I lost 2 undefended cities in my backyard early on, took them back and later I lost another one, who Alex lost to Sury (now vassal of bribed in Zara!). Couldn't really afford a war against 3 people and didn't have a save, so I stopped. The land situation was dumb because I couldn't get a clear culture block going. Alex had 3 cities in my territory, Zara had 1.

    Too bad, the game was basically won. I already had 12 cities with room for some nice biology/workshop fillers, huge techlead on the continent, mediocre chances on Lib, multiple very strong cottage cities. Alex hit me in a window where he was like 1-2 diplo from pleased(we had Tao!) and I was like 10-15 turns from being done with basic infrastructure and getting longbows. Zara also was 5-6 turns from being bribed on his stupid butt again.
     
  3. Nick Carpathia

    Nick Carpathia Unleash the HAARP

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
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    1,064
    Location:
    Romania
    Hey, Caf, don't forget you're imperialistic, so work 0/3/0 tiles instead of 3/0/1 when you're going for settlers.

    Only played 12 turns or so before I needed to go...

    Spoiler :
    I personally decided to settle in place, and seeing Cathy and horses in the BFC, immediately told me to go chariot rushing. I've never chariot rushed on Emp before, what's a good attack date, and what's a good ratio of chariots:archers? I know her borders will pop on T25 or so, which kinda sucks as I won't be able to 1-move her capital, and she'll probably have 3-4 archers when I arrive. In that case, would 10 chariots be enough, or will that be too slow? The micro plan in my head is: Worker first, farm corn, pasture horse, pasture pigs, grow to S4, 2-pop whip a barracks, and chop out the plains hills and replace them with mines. Alternatively, I could pasture pigs, farm corn, then pasture horses, which is more growth oriented.
     
  4. Nick Carpathia

    Nick Carpathia Unleash the HAARP

    Joined:
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    1,064
    Location:
    Romania
    It worked!

    Spoiler :
    I worked the oasis even while building my first warrior, and improved my specials in the order: Wet corn, grass horse, hill pigs. At size 3, I started on a second worker, and my first helped to road the plains hill forest to the north of my capital. Grew to size 4, put the barracks at something like 17/60, then 2-pop whipped and put the overflow onto a chariot. The overflow went onto a 2nd chariot. Chopped out 3 forests into 3 more chariots, and slow-built 1 chariot the old-fashioned way.

    Had a mere 6 chariots on T45, but I decided to simply go for it. Earlier I roaded a the forests to the west of my capital to decrease travel time by a turn, but in hindsight, I shouldn't have bothered building that road and should have instead put the worker turns into 2 more forest chops, I could have saved 4 turns or so.

    I simply forked the two cities, killed the capital (containing 2 archers) with 4 chariots, killed the second city (1 archer) with the other 2, final battle at 85% odds.



    Turned out Cathy had built a 3rd city that very turn. She was nice enough to road the plains hill, meaning my archers could 1-move her from the Moscow.



    I believe I've built a total of 9 chariots, which has gotten me 3 cities and 1 worker, and removed a nearby rival. Now I could continue on to Zara, but I think I've got enough land, and I also have zero intelligence on where his core cities are.
     
  5. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    Location:
    Czech Rep.
    @CaF

    you should maybe streamline a bit the names of your uploads... I don't want to force you my solution, but the way you do it's very confusing (right now I actually clicked part 3 before part 2 since it wasn't that clear what is what).
    I usually make the first saves with turn numbers and later rename to more formal and used format "let's play civilization iv blabla part 1"

    that way no one can get confused in the meantime until I get to PC to rename it.

    You can even rename the video while uploading.
     
  6. CaF

    CaF Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Germany
    @vranasm

    I screwed up the upload and started a later part's upload first. Didn't want to stop it so it's online now. The parts in between are being uploaded right now. I also renamed the stuff so that there is some sort of order.
     
  7. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Messages:
    6,437
    Location:
    Czech Rep.
    @CaF

    I love your style of your videos... very entertaining ;-). watched part 3, now "downloading" part 4... I even skipped my DA 2 session for your videos :-D
     
  8. yanner39

    yanner39 Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,384
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I agree with vranasm. Very good details and explanations. Look forward to others.

    edit: Just to add, I never knew how to effectively pre-chop forests until watching CaF in action. Chop-stop. I would always chop, press next turn and always miss the turn to stop chopping. Thanks!
     
  9. JoeMacUnGee

    JoeMacUnGee Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    146
    Spies are a hell of a lot of fun to use. And if you're running Representation, make half-decent researchers. Great spies absolutely own.
     
  10. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,759
    Gender:
    Male
    Great spies are nice. Regular spies are nice. Spy specialists that eat my food are not; well in any case, at least not the ones I never asked for!

    But enough about my own problems. ;p
     
  11. lsgag

    lsgag Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    78
    bleh @ events :(

    Spoiler :

    Pretty nice start, great terrair nearby, started out with AH, pottery, writing, mining bw. Anyways, then i noticed the events while i was building TGL my lib was destroyed by an event.

    Spoiler :



     

    Attached Files:

  12. Nicol.Bolas

    Nicol.Bolas Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    575
    Location:
    Bohemia
    BC 4000

    up to
    BC 1000 comments on my startup decisions extremely welcome
    /about 2 rings scouted/

    Spoiler :

    a winner is not Cathy

    Settled in place

    strategy
    - The worst nightmare of my pregame analysis came true.... very close enemy on large map. I decided to intercept and neutralize.
    - Since my experience with rushes is limited, I read up on excellent Sisituls guide and tried to apply it.
    - In the end I applied it quite well, but I got stuck on 1 worker. Initial warrior lost and no captures, it was a mistake not to build other one.Edirne didn't really live up to my expectations.
    - Chairots proved even weaker then he warns in his guide, I switched to axes.What I did apply was the spear man trick, and indeed Cathy build many chariots.
    all the stacks were just-enough, which means on higher difficulty this whole venture would have been epic fail and gg
    - I got one GG. normally I would have put him in my nonexistent troop city. But Only Istanbul has decent production. So I settled him, expecting another GG for lvl6 unit.
    this was probably a mistake
    - I did not manage the whipping well at all, Istanbul was constantly unhappy

    production
    Istanbul: worker, warrior, warrior, settler, barracks(w!), chariot(w!), granary, chariot(repeat), axeman (repeat) whips applied on 2/3 units
    - granary was probably not needed

    Edirne: barracks(c!), chariots, axeman, 2 spear man,
    - some chopping, almost no whipping

    improvements
    farm wheat, pasture horse, pasture pigs, chop barracks, r2 Edirne, mine copper, farm grassland, build cottage, random chops, r2 PH near Cathy
    - the cottage was mistake, I clearly needed more workers for more chops

    research
    animal husbandry, mining, BW, pottery, hunting, archery, writing, alphabet
    - hunting, pottery, archery was not needed

    military and city placement
    - I will cover this in following SS

    Spoiler :






    plan for next update
    either:
    a) rex all the amazing sites
    b) destroy Zara
    c) defend from inevitable Alexis stack
    d) take one city from Zara and harass him,
    combination of above
    also: build libs for culture, get some GS, use the 2 workers I finally captured ( a settler of Cathy was in the last city just as I approached

    game log
    Spoiler :


    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 0/500 (4000 BC) [22-Mar-2011 22:41:50]
    Istanbul founded
    Research begun: Animal Husbandry (12 Turns)

    Turn 6/500 (3760 BC) [22-Mar-2011 22:44:20]
    Player contact made: Catherine of Russia

    Turn 10/500 (3600 BC) [22-Mar-2011 22:45:02]
    Tech research finished: Animal Husbandry

    Turn 11/500 (3560 BC) [22-Mar-2011 22:45:14]
    Research begun: Horseback Riding (28 Turns)
    Research begun: Mining (7 Turns)
    Research begun: Bronze Working (7 Turns)

    Turn 12/500 (3520 BC) [22-Mar-2011 22:46:21]
    Player contact made: Suryavarman II of Khmer

    Turn 14/500 (3440 BC) [22-Mar-2011 22:47:05]
    Istanbul finishes: Worker

    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 17/500 (3320 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:06:32]

    Turn 17/500 (3320 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:06:25]
    Tech research finished: Mining
    Player contact made: Alexander of Greece

    Turn 21/500 (3160 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:08:23]
    Istanbul grows to size 2

    Turn 23/500 (3080 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:09:22]
    Player contact made: Zara Yaqob of Ethiopia

    Turn 25/500 (3000 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:09:39]
    Istanbul grows to size 3

    Turn 26/500 (2960 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:10:08]
    Istanbul finishes: Warrior

    Turn 28/500 (2880 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:11:30]
    Istanbul grows to size 4

    Turn 29/500 (2840 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:11:44]
    Istanbul finishes: Warrior

    Turn 30/500 (2800 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:12:15]
    Tech research finished: Bronze Working

    Turn 31/500 (2760 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:12:34]
    Research begun: Pottery (120 Turns)

    Turn 37/500 (2520 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:14:30]
    Istanbul finishes: Settler

    Turn 40/500 (2400 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:15:58]
    The whip was applied in Istanbul
    Istanbul grows to size 4
    Istanbul finishes: Barracks

    Turn 41/500 (2360 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:16:24]
    Edirne founded
    Tech research finished: Pottery

    Turn 42/500 (2320 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:17:04]
    Research begun: Hunting (4 Turns)
    The whip was applied in Istanbul
    Istanbul finishes: Chariot

    Turn 44/500 (2240 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:18:21]
    Istanbul grows to size 4

    Turn 45/500 (2200 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:18:44]
    Tech research finished: Hunting

    Turn 46/500 (2160 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:19:13]
    Research begun: Archery (7 Turns)

    Turn 49/500 (2040 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:20:00]
    Istanbul grows to size 5

    Turn 50/500 (2000 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:20:15]
    Whip anger has decreased in Istanbul
    Istanbul finishes: Granary

    Turn 51/500 (1960 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:20:35]
    Tech research finished: Archery
    Edirne grows to size 2
    Edirne finishes: Barracks

    Turn 52/500 (1920 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:20:59]
    Research begun: Writing (9 Turns)

    Turn 53/500 (1880 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:21:30]
    Istanbul finishes: Chariot

    Turn 55/500 (1800 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:22:06]
    Istanbul finishes: Archer

    Turn 56/500 (1760 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:22:32]
    Edirne finishes: Chariot

    Turn 59/500 (1640 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:23:57]
    Istanbul finishes: Chariot

    Turn 60/500 (1600 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:24:08]
    Whip anger has decreased in Istanbul
    Istanbul grows to size 6
    Edirne finishes: Chariot

    Turn 61/500 (1560 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:24:34]
    The whip was applied in Istanbul
    Tech research finished: Writing
    Istanbul finishes: Chariot

    Turn 62/500 (1520 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:25:20]
    Research begun: Alphabet (29 Turns)
    NC 70 Sulieman (Ottomans) declares war on Catherine (Russia)
    Istanbul finishes: Chariot

    Turn 63/500 (1480 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:27:43]
    Captured Novgorod (Catherine)
    Razed Novgorod
    Novgorod lost
    Istanbul grows to size 6

    Turn 65/500 (1400 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:29:36]
    Edirne finishes: Axeman

    Turn 66/500 (1360 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:30:06]
    Diplomacy: Alexander (Greece) offers to trade Open Borders to NC 70 Sulieman (Ottomans) for Open Borders
    Diplomacy: NC 70 Sulieman (Ottomans) rejects trade of Open Borders to Alexander (Greece) for Open Borders
    Istanbul finishes: Chariot

    Turn 67/500 (1320 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:31:23]
    The whip was applied in Istanbul
    The whip was applied in Edirne
    Istanbul finishes: Chariot
    Edirne grows to size 2
    Edirne finishes: Spearman

    Turn 70/500 (1200 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:33:34]
    Istanbul grows to size 5
    Istanbul finishes: Axeman
    Edirne finishes: Axeman

    Turn 71/500 (1160 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:33:43]
    Diplomacy: Zara Yaqob (Ethiopia) offers to trade Open Borders to NC 70 Sulieman (Ottomans) for Open Borders
    Diplomacy: NC 70 Sulieman (Ottomans) accepts trade of Open Borders to Zara Yaqob (Ethiopia) for Open Borders
    Whip anger has decreased in Istanbul

    Turn 73/500 (1080 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:37:25]
    The whip was applied in Istanbul
    Istanbul finishes: Axeman
    Edirne finishes: Spearman

    Turn 74/500 (1040 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:37:40]
    Istanbul grows to size 5

    Turn 75/500 (1000 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:39:26]
    Istanbul finishes: Spearman
    Edirne finishes: Axeman

    Turn 76/500 (975 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:40:20]
    Pachacuti (Great General) born in Istanbul
    Captured Moscow (Catherine)

    Turn 77/500 (950 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:47:16]
    Diplomacy: Suryavarman II (Khmer) offers to trade Open Borders to NC 70 Sulieman (Ottomans) for Open Borders
    Diplomacy: NC 70 Sulieman (Ottomans) accepts trade of Open Borders to Suryavarman II (Khmer) for Open Borders
    The whip was applied in Istanbul
    The whip was applied in Edirne
    Istanbul finishes: Axeman
    Edirne finishes: Axeman

    Turn 78/500 (925 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:49:00]
    Edirne grows to size 2

    Turn 80/500 (875 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:51:06]
    Edirne finishes: Chariot

    Turn 81/500 (850 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:51:29]
    Whip anger has decreased in Istanbul

    Turn 82/500 (825 BC) [22-Mar-2011 23:51:51]
    Captured St. Petersburg (Catherine)
    Russian Empire has been eliminated



    @caf
    Spoiler :

    thanks for the video.
    why don't you press enter for end turn?

    I wondered what tile to work when I build the initial warriors, food to grow to limit, or how does this work? I am always lost in this.....letting the city grow and working 1H

    lol I learned so many details from the video I won't even list it, TY a lot

    what is the shortcut for captions? (I have buffy mod (bug+hof))

    why is it best to build a worker in new city, why not let it grow to 2?


    @nick
    Spoiler :

    wow, your rush was whole 40 turns faster then mine. I shouldn't have bothered with 2nd city i guess


    @ anchor wing
    I know what you mean about spies. It caused me a lot of grieve before I read this excellent guide.
    learning to manage your governors is the key
    you are probably not setting the priorities for your governors right


    edit: if anyone could take a look at my safe, it would be great, but you need the bug/hof mod
    Spoiler :

    I played some more and I am really strugglingm I seem to be losing quickly.
    economy is bancrupt, I am loosing land to the creative trait everywhere, and Just lost a new cottage cioty to barbs.
    downs south has Alex a stack of swords ready.
    up north, altogh not visible now, is Khmer with a settler...... si is he gonna settle right near my capitals resources and steal everything by being creative?

    now if remeber myself, that this is probably just one continent out of many, and it's already turn 120, and my rush achieved exactly what?
     

    Attached Files:

  13. CaF

    CaF Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Germany
    @nicol

    Spoiler :
    I don't understand the place of your 2nd city. Not taking the Wheat seems kind of stupid to me. There also is not much of a point in settling into a creative AI's BFC. You won't steal any tiles anyways.

    I wouldn't mix axes with chariots. That in general slows you down. Either one or the other. I prefer chariots or horse archers because I can outmaneuver the AI. As long as I'm not up against Toku on a hill that usually works without much trouble.

    You can make notes on the field using Alt + S + leftclick.

    I usually build a worker in my 2nd city because I lack better options. I don't spawnbust much and build protection units in advance, so it's either a useful building or a worker if I need one. Growing onto weak tiles seems kind of useless to me. I will never say it's best. In fact I don't know what is best and there is a good chance I never will.
     
  14. Nicol.Bolas

    Nicol.Bolas Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    575
    Location:
    Bohemia
    @caf
    Spoiler :

    the idea was to settle PH on a river, with FP as food and copper as hammers

    he settled into my BFC :sad:
     
  15. luukdeman111

    luukdeman111 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I've not played Civ for like 5 weeks now (how weird is that?) so i decided is hould play this one again... signing in...(little late)
     
  16. Nicol.Bolas

    Nicol.Bolas Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    575
    Location:
    Bohemia
    BC 4000
    BC 1000
    update:
    up to 1200 AD
    Spoiler :

    A winner is not Alexander
    A winner is also not axes vs maces :sad:

    Our continent has almost no wonders, and I just got civil service when UoS was built in distant land.
    It is exactly as I feared...... trapped in endless war, while somwhere distant someone is about to do 1700 AD launch.

    Not only Alex declared, but almost as he was defeated, he vassaled to Zara, thus dragging Zara to the war :sad:
    Zara was 2 turns away from machinery, when he suddenly switches to bureaucracy.
    yes the horror unleashed...... axes vs maces now.
    he must have traded with someone, or I don't know :sad:

    I have been running bankrupt since start of the game until now, yet I have cottages everywhere, to the point when production is at halt.
    my only research comes from specialists and settled GS.

    really the SSs say it all
    Spoiler :

















    wonder if anyone else is struggling so much with this map
    virtually nothing is going well. :sad:
     

    Attached Files:

  17. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,129
    Location:
    Cantaloupe Island
    My attempt, to 1A.D.

    Spoiler :
    Suleiman is really a strong leader :) And very pleasant to play with.
    I both (almost) crashed my economy, courtesy of the Imperialistic trait and took a tech lead, courtesy of the Philosophical trait... Cool !


    I settled 1N to get a 2H city tile and accelerate the time the corn would be worked.
    Techpath went : AH (for pigs) -> BW (for forested gems) -> Fishing (for Gems city) -> Pottery (for the discount into) -> Writing

    A 2nd worker was built at size 5 (waiting for BW) and then a Settler :
    The 2nd city was settled west to get some research power. As a result, most of the floodplains area was left to Catherine.
    The capital could pump settlers in 5-6 turns so I took full advantage of that with 4 fast cities (3 cities before 2000 B.C. and the 4th shortly after).
    That slowed down the time we got to Writing but... By 1500 B.C. (Writing, roughly), we had 5 cities and started on Libraries (4 of them...).
    Early expansion :
    Spoiler :


    Slider was turned down to 0% science until and Academy was up in the capital. Then we went for Aesthetics, since 2 AIs already had Alphabet (backwards me !).
    That proved to be a very nice trade bet, yielding Alphabet, Maths, IW and some minor techs.
    Then the tech path was Litterature (Great Lib) -> Music (for Golden Age) -> Code of Laws (for the civic + Civil Service).

    2 other great scientists bulbed Compass and Philosophy. I didn't found Taoism, though. The other continent seems to be more advanced than us. On our continent, these 2 techs are a monopoly, so when the AIs will be willing to trade, I'll be able to backfill Currency, Construction and maybe a bit more.
    Maybe our wars are the reason. Alex and Cathy wage war together while Zara and Sury do the same in thing in their corner. Good thing. I don't have to worry much about my safety.

    A barbarian city spawed in my backyard and I took the opportunity to unlock the Heroic Epic. Built that in the Capital and I'm getting 1 axeman/turn, now. Whithout Catapults, they're a bit worthless at this point, though.

    Catherine is my land target. I hope I can get to her before 1000 A.D. She has great land, is already at war with an AI, the Stonehenge and the Shrine for Confucianism, the only religion on our continent.
    500 A.D. would be fit my taste better.

    This very 1A.D. turn a Golden Age will be launched and I will revolt to Caste + Pacifism. I'm thinking about farming a great merchant to fund research towards a military tech.

    The Empire :
    Spoiler :


    Oh ! And this :goodjob: :
    Spoiler :


    Demographics (I'm pretty much last) :
    Spoiler :
     

    Attached Files:

  18. GKey

    GKey Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,277
    Location:
    USA
    @BIC
    Nice game. :goodjob:
    Spoiler :
    Run from such a nice river. Wonder was it worth it or not. I X-bow rush Cath right now. Not too easy. And according to op there must be 2 more continents same size as ours :crazyeye: No way I will go for domination here, will take ages. Space/diplo may be? But need get our continent first, which I am not sure will work.
     
  19. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,129
    Location:
    Cantaloupe Island
    @ GKey :
    Spoiler :
    Thank you :)

    @ Capital's location :
    Moving 1N is slightly inferior in the long run : there's 2 food less to be worked (counting floodplains, hills and grass). But we need the capital to be size 10+ (or focused on commerce) for that to be relevant. Longer term, the Levee is lost, which may actually matter if you're going for space.
    In the short term, 1N is (much) better : the 1st worker is out 2 turns earlier and the corn is improved 3 turns earlier. Seeing how both locations are almost equal until the modern era, I think the hammer gain + earlier growth are enough to justify the move...

    Hmm... My capital is slightly cottaged at the moment. It will probably get farms instead as soon as the caps raise. I've built the Heroic Epic there, after all, and there are 29 base hammers available :eek:
    For the National Epic, I do not have a location in mind yet. Maybe Istanbul as well, maybe Moscow :D

    Spoiler :
     
  20. GKey

    GKey Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,277
    Location:
    USA
    @BIC
    Spoiler :
    I went AbsoluteZero stile with whipping, my cap going to stay small for long time.
    I wonder how could you settle all these cities if waited for size 5 first. Looking on this creative central I started my settler at size 2 :lol:
     

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