Nobles' Club LXXXVIII: Suryavarman II of the Khmer

[dalamb]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Suryavarman II of the Khmer, whom we last played in NC XLVIII. The Khmer start with Hunting and Mining.

• Traits: Sury is Expansive and Creative. EXP means faster workers, granaries, and harbours, plus +2 per city. CRE means faster libraries, colosseums, and theatres, plus +2, so cities expand their borders without needing cultural buildings.
• His UB, the Baray: an Aqueduct that gives +1. It requires Math and Masonry, which are the prerequisites for Construction, which is needed for the UU.
  
• His UU, the Ballista Elephant: a War Elephant that targets mounted units first outside of cities. This means they can avoid nasty pikes if there happen to be any horses to attack, but once you run out of mounted units you're stuck with a normal elephant. Many people prefer a UU that can get City Raider promotions, but some people are quite happy to make catophant wars (catapults plus elephants). It does mean that a lowly enemy chariot-medic dies fast if the AI actually builds such medics, like most humans do.
  

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Good old Pangaea, which we've probably overused somewhat, but I figured we'd had lots of water lately so should go for something both normal and land-based.

Spoiler edits :

Regenerated until I got an AI leader who had elephants in his BFC, then swapped us with him -- then moved 1SW to be on top of a plains hill. Rerouted his river slightly. Added the deer so we had a hunting-based food resource in our BFC. Changed a few nearby deserts to plains.

Spoiler which AI :

Justinian

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:

• 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
• 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
• 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
• 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
• continent if applicable, etc)
• 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
• End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 88 Sury Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels)You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[dalamb]

Reserved.

 

[vranasm]

ouh-em-dží ... sury with ivory? must play I say...

 

[dalamb]

NC games always get the resource for their UU reasonably nearby.

 

[krikav]

Ballista elephant time!

IU, LHC and now this! Won't get much sleep this weekend.

 

[krikav]

Deer on grassland? I don't think I have ever seen that, is there something spooky going on, or are we simply lucky?

 

[vranasm]

Deer on grassland? I don't think I have ever seen that, is there something spooky going on, or are we simply lucky?

great plains map tend to have a lot of them (this isn't great plains...so not spoiling anything)
don't see anything wrong with the deer.

 

[schludy]

What's the way of playing this?
Abuse traits and plant as many cities as possible or
Abuse UU and stop expanding after a couple of new cities and stomp 1 or 2 neighbors?

 

[dalamb]

In any NC game, if the map looks unusual to you, check the "map edits" spoiler.

Since catophants come a little later in the game than the classic Axe or Sword rush, I'd be inclined to REX a bit at the start, then start conquering. It might depend on whether there is copper nearby, which I've already forgotten about (made the map yesterday).

 

[Amao]

@dalamb: spoiler tag your comment please

 

[ecuwins]

What's the way of playing this?
Abuse traits and plant as many cities as possible or
Abuse UU and stop expanding after a couple of new cities and stomp 1 or 2 neighbors?

Scout the land first, always.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Yes! We have guaranteed access to.... that UU.

West looks so bad; I have bad feelings about the surrounding land.

 

[dalamb]

@Amao: which comment requires a spoiler?

 

[Amao]

@Amao: which comment requires a spoiler?

it's a false alarm, because you've already forgotten the copper.

 

[obsolete]

WHAT!!? NO GOLD?!

Horrible, horrible start. Not even worth it, except to re-roll.

And I play MARATHON/HUGE guys, so I know what I'm talking about! Don't argue with me.

 

[dalamb]

EEK. Thread spillover! Will MarigoldRan show up too? :;

 

[mtr12]

Since catophants come a little later in the game than the classic Axe or Sword rush, I'd be inclined to REX a bit at the start, then start conquering. It might depend on whether there is copper nearby, which I've already forgotten about (made the map yesterday).

Did you mean elepult?


EDIT: Ooooooh, BFC Stone. Well, if we can find Horses and a nearby enemy, should be a fairly easy game.

 

[MarigoldRan]

WHAT!!? NO GOLD?!

Horrible, horrible start. Not even worth it, except to re-roll.

And I play MARATHON/HUGE guys, so I know what I'm talking about! Don't argue with me.

This is a normal sized map. It means you should play it like a normal-sized map. Similarly, if you're playing Marathon/Huge, you should play it as Marathon/Huge.

It sounds like you're somewhat angry and sarcastic. Maybe you should go see a therapist.

[And even if it was Marathon/Huge, Stone=Commerce]

Pretty easy strategy it seems. Pyramids. Then ele-pult.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Spoiler :

Probably should have played at Deity, but decided for stress-free immortal. Starting near two gold mines is nice. First two cities were at the gold mines.

Once the commerce rolled in, REXed to 6 cities, built GW and Pyramids. Then I REXed to 9 cities, throwing up some crap cities for production. Fast granaries, and libraries, and the Pyramids with Representation meant my research wasn't too slow.

Switched to Police State right before mass-forest chops and whips for an army ele-pults.

Ele-pulted ~300 BC on Charlie. Then hit the Babylonians 5 turns before they researched Feudalism. The Babylonians in the mean-time had spammed Wonders and religions, and shrines. So taking their cities was nice.

600 AD. Babylonians dead. Charlie pulled the Romans against us, and the Babs pulled the English against us. No big deal. Since they weren't prepping for war, it meant their stacks were super-small.

Not won yet, but it's pretty much over.

I'm pretty sure HAs would do it faster. But ele-pult was the sure way.

Not quite used to the speed. Things pass so quickly! Also, the enemy stacks are soooooo small.

Oh yeah, I never chose a religion. Didn't want to make any enemies that would prepare DOWs against me at a bad time. I really skimped on early army thanks to getting the GW.

 

[mtr12]

NC games always get the resource for their UU reasonably nearby.

Eh, Sury's UU isn't anything noteworthy. Baray's, on the other hand, are pretty beast.

Spoiler :

Played to 375 AD, Emperor/Normal, same as usual. I was hoping to use the textbook tactic of expanding to 6 cities and turtling until Cuirassiers, but there's no real way to win this game without either doing an HA Rush or Elepult. Burger King is close to you, and he REXes too fast. Also his capital is a Holy City on a hill, which means rushing is impossible.

The problem is that I've never done an Elepult before, so I had no idea what to do. I ended up paying 19 gpt in unit costs since I severely underestimated its effectiveness.

Might give this map another try. I'm still tech leader, and after killing Charlie and maybe Elizabeth I should have a winning position, but I made several misplays. Fortunately it's only Emperor.

Spoiler :

Actually, I've probably achieved a winning position. I'm the tech leader, and have enough beakers to win by Space. I merged horizontal growth strategies (Sankore/AP/SoL + Espionage) with a massive Cottage Spam after my Elepult Wars against Burger King and Elizabeth.

Unfortunately I was dumb and settled a GE rather than saving him for Mining Inc, so I'll have to get another one somehow.

I usually prefer having a minimum of 15 cities by lategame, but this is pretty much over.

Game ended, Emperor/Normal Space Race 1905 AD.