1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Nobles Club X - Zara Yaqob!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Bleys, Jul 15, 2008.

  1. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,573
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    OK, the next installment has arrived, and rolo has warned that this map is a bit different from the usual maps we play. I have played some turns, and while it does seem a bit poor, resource wise, forest-chopping is going to create a massive amount of hammers. Also, given the semi-sparseness of resources, having a CRE leader is going to play a pretty decent role here. So here is the standard info:

    Our leader = Zara has an excellent combo of traits, both of which aid in one of this games primary goal, grabbing land. His starting techs arent bad either, although unless you start with deer, you need foodto get some food techs going:
    Spoiler :
    His UU and UB = The Steele and the Oromo Warrior. The Steele is an upgraded monument that also adds a percentage of culture overall, making Zara a culture monster. CRE plus this UB can overwhelm a TON of AI tiles in those "our close border" situations, and you can even use Zara to culture-flip like mad. In fact, in the Zealot PYL game a while back, one of the players tried the "no conquering, all culture-flip" style of taking over AIs. Crazy stuff like that is very possible.

    In regard to his UU, what can I say, its HUGE. No need to push for Rifles with this thing, even drafted they are powerhouses. Watch out for those Immune to First Strike units, have counters in the stack, like Pikes, great combo with the Oromo, but being Immune to First Strike themselves, they are solid up against LBs, making them stronger city raiders than standard muskets:
    Spoiler :

    And the start. No Fishing, so its not tough to pick that opening tech, but as I said, this map has some interesting twists. Not sure what script rolo used, but its a very interesting look, thats for sure. You will see soon enough if your scout survives, heh, mine got ate pretty quickly:
    Spoiler :
    And here is the standard cut and paste of our Club Doctrine:

    There are no hard and fast rules here, fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

    Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

    4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
    1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, etc)
    500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
    1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
    1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
    End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

    Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats dont fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

    We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

    Once again, special recognition goes out to r_rolo1, our Map Maker, who sets these up for us (so I can play without peeking, heh, the WB needs to be modified) and also to Krick19, who came up with the idea of running a series like this for the less confident players. It is our goal to get folks to play and post without feeling self-conscious about being a "n00b" or asking dumb things. There are NO stupid questions! Learning this game is a process, not an event.

    The WB-save is attached (zipped, they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC X - Zara". This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Prince, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

    Also, it should be noted that although this is a "pre-Monarch" oriented series, you are welcome to play it at levels above Prince. However, the AIs will NOT get their full set of bonus techs. The main difference is Archery, which the AI normally gets for free at Monarch and above. The main affects of this are in the AIs starting units (warriors instead of archers) and it also creates a tad "slower" AI, since they now have to tech Archery themselves.

    In addition, because of the variations of using the Scenario menu, your starting Scout/Warrior may not be in exactly the same spot as the one shown.

    On to the game!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. pieman11

    pieman11 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2008
    Messages:
    110
    Did I miss the save?
     
  3. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,573
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Ugh my bad, I KNOW I attached it! (ok, maybe I forgot, I mean, I forgot in 3 or 4 others, and most of my SG turns, LOL).
     
  4. Everest

    Everest Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Messages:
    230
    It's been up for 2 hours straight and still no playthrough from TMIT? Kinda strange. :crazyeye: :D

    Anyway, thanks for this thing, I'll be playing Emperor light for my very first time, so I expect to get killed in a long and bloody slogfest. It's gonna be fun! :)
     
  5. ranion

    ranion Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Messages:
    99
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    i've been waiting for this, good show, zara is such a monster its not even funny.
     
  6. schwartz

    schwartz King

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Messages:
    823
    Location:
    Detroit, MI, USA
    interesting start...
    emperor/normal for me.
     
  7. Groogaroo

    Groogaroo King

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    970
    Location:
    London
    I'm going to making my first solo attempt at Monarch this Nobles Club... (Which probably means I'll be begging for advice at about 3000BC) So... Monarch/Epic

    Thoughts on the start

    I'm not sure I'm liking this start much. These seafood starts always seem to slow down my opening game :sad: especially as we start without fishing. Techwise, I'll be boring and probably go for fishing first, B/working second, might even build a spare scout first as we seem to be on a choke point between 2 land masses.
     
  8. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,922
    Location:
    Orem, UT
    Prince/Normal somewhere in the ADs.

    Spoiler :

    The map is larger than I'm used to, but there are enough inland lakes one tile away from coasts that the cheap Lighthouses are proving to be excellent sources of food, which is rare on this map, it seems. I don't normally go wonder-happy with a non-Industrious leader, but I've chopped out Stonehenge, the Statue of Zeus, and the Shwedagon; still a few turns away from the Parthenon. I'm pondering a cultural victory; it'll be tough as no religions have spread to me yet. Montezuma in the south makes me nervous.
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,318
    Give me a break, I work and have class mondays/tuesdays, and I want to play out the 2 immortal U games before this! I've been dabbling in people's other posted games too.

    I might seem like I play a lot but I'm still human :eek::lol:!

    No worries though, I'm very likely to have played this before the week is up ;).

    Obviously we need BW and fishing early. Triple seafood can mean some nice whipping too which means it might be worthwhile to go sailing shortly thereafter, although since we can't see the entire initial BFC atm I'd say it does depend on that somewhat also.
     
  10. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,573
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Well, I tried Emp, but did not do well, I was so far behind in techs and military that I gave up (might have been able to salvage, but bleh, so much grinding). Restarted at Monarch, and of course, now I am killing, and I didnt really do much different, same cities, same tech path, same builds, but I am in a comfy lead in both techs and military (mostly).
     
  11. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    13,818
    Location:
    Lisbon, Portugal
    @Bleys
    Spoiler :
    Collosus! :lol:
     
  12. KaytieKat

    KaytieKat King

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    999
    Hi

    Noble, Marathon 240 BC Loss :(

    Spoiler :
    Grrr pretty much my own darn fault. I mean I DO know better but THOUGHT I was doing ok with Monty diplo wise. I had him up to pleased his worse enemy was Freddy so I ahd NOTHINg to do with him. I EVEN had my scouts all sentird around monty's borders JUST in case a stack headed my way, BUT after awhile I sent a couple in to scout Monty's lands so somehow a stack snuch through and before I knew it he DoW'ed and like 8 or 9 axes came rolling in and my cities NOWHERE near able to to handle em. I COULD probably whip like 3 or 4 from my cap if I send it down to pop 1 and then live with like HUGE unahhpiness for the next hundred turns or so but that wont save my other cities and by then it will be all over grrrr. Like I said my own fault I KNOW Monty is a loonie and diplo means NOTHING with him but trusted diplomacy anyways to buy me some time before I had to deal with him which was stupid of me grrr.

    Probably part of dealio was I think it just seemed this map would be sooo unfun that my heart wasnt in it very much so I wasnt as careful as I should be. Thin snaky strips of mostly sucky land and only ONE way to start getting any kind of expanding going all of which pretty much kills org and creative traits plus starting techs not very helpful on this map either :/. and then NO calendar resources and darn few other resources. Two neighbors that can be a pain if you dont kill early but are so far away that rush is gonna be MAJOR pain at best. Especially on snaky map where it hard to go in stright line so you have to zig zag too em. It kind of like having isolated start without benefit of being isolated so it worst or both worlds :/.

    I guess skill level of this series just going past me. It seems like used to be for most of the first few games the starts and maps were designed to be helpful to player but last few games they seem more like chosen to be extra obstacle. Which is good for most players here I guess. I mean even though it started out as noble level series I think pretty much EVERYbody who started out on noble is on to like monarch or emporer now so playing extra tuff maps is probably fun challenge but for plain old noble players like me I get crushed BIG time :( .

    Kaytie
     
  13. Groogaroo

    Groogaroo King

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    970
    Location:
    London
    Well... I'm having a funny game here and its only 2000BC. Something very interesting happened in my game and I managed to document the event.

    Update 2000BC - Monarch/Epic


    Spoiler :
    Well I'm having a bit of a slow start. Settled in place, starting build was Scout > workboat > worker, teched fishing > Archery > Bronzeworking, met Mansa and Monty and then this happened...





    Ouch! if you look at the pic I don't even have a Garrisson troop in Aksum! :cry: I switched to slavery in a last ditch attempt to try and save the game but... The Barbs decided they didn't fancy my undefended capital and wondered off :confused:



    Out of curiosity I decided to follow them and guess where they end up?



    and...



    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    After all this took place I decided to chop out the great wall, there was a lot of space on this map before Mansa died but now its huge! Here's my known world,



    So I think its time to start getting some cities up fast. I'm going to make sure I leave plenty of space for barbs to get through and bother Monty.
     
  14. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,922
    Location:
    Orem, UT
    @ KaytieKat

    Spoiler :
    I've got to agree that the map sucks big time for Creative. It also sucks with the only food source being cows. I'm pretty sure I'm going to get steamrolled by Montezuma, too, but I do have one city that's dedicated to making military units and nothing else.

    One interesting things about the map, though, is the ability to settle on the coast and have access to inland lakes, allowing for 3 food 2 commerce tiles when you build a cheap lighthouse.

    But yeah, I've had a hard time with the last couple of Noble's Club games, as well.
     
  15. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    13,818
    Location:
    Lisbon, Portugal
    @Kaytie and Bandobras
    Spoiler :
    I have to admit that this map is not your ordinary map ( I told it to Bleys very explicitely and let him to decide if he would put it or if I would make another ) and my idea was to showcase some more "hidden" forces of the traits of Zara.... This map has few food, surely, but has a good deal of lakes and chokepoints and lots of woods, making easy to chop for protection or infra. This, like bandobras said, is also a good map for the cheap lighthouses and libraries of Zara ( and for a chopped colllosus ).

    About Monty: well, you all know the drill... Monty is the usual nutjob and it is almost assured that he'll attack you sooner or later. His land is not that good and if you can outtech him things will be allright ( if he founds a religion you can direct him vs mansa easily )

    To end: In spite of agreeing that this particular map is not that easy, I think that the problem comes from the players being unfamiliar with this kind of maps ( both the João tectonics as this one ( Planet generator, gently ceded by BUG 3.0 ). To say the truth I runned the João Map in real Emperor and I didn't finded it more hard than most of the fractal maps, simply a little diferent in terms of strats. And ( atleast IMHO ) this kind of clubs need to serve varied maps: besides breaking the monothony, it serves to show how to cope with various situations.....
     
  16. schwartz

    schwartz King

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Messages:
    823
    Location:
    Detroit, MI, USA
    @rolo:
    Spoiler :
    This map is understandably giving people a rough time. My settling plan is using lakes as a "poor man's" food resource (3F with lighthouse) but I think that Mansa will beat me to Colossus given his tech rate here. (I'm trying, though :p)

    Spoiler Emperor/Normal, 4000 BC - 275 BC :
    Noticing that the capital is going to be hammer poor, I move 1S so as not to lose the hills.
    Start with a worker (15) and bronze working (16). Will probably pull off a rush if we have a neighbor.
    Scout got eaten by lions on turn 10 :lol:
    Bronze popped 3N and I feel like an idiot for moving. A new city in the north will grab bronze/clams (this is what I had in my notes, but I changed this to the fish+bronze city further west, see map)
    Meet the nearest neighbor, Montezuma, coming from the south on turn 24.
    Teched fishing after BW and got a workboat out after the worker (helped by a chop, then teched off sailing (GLH is in my plans here.)
    Also met Mansa in this round on turn 31 and drew the herbal medicine event on turn 46 (still one city)
    Got the GLH in 1120 and then had massive barb problems (pillaged my gold, and made trouble in general, as usual)

    Played up to 275 BC where I just settled a 4th city and have plans to keep expanding and generating some GSs to get my way back into the tech race (Mansa already has compass, alpha, and some others on me.)
    Map:

    You can see I'm working some cottages right now, even though they'll likely end up as farms later to fuel the TRE with big cities. Also, expect a HUGE settling run in the next round (I'd like to get 12~ cities peacefully, if not more)

    @Kaytie/Bandobras:
    Spoiler :
    I agree that the maps have been getting tougher and I don't necessarily agree with the decision.. I got eaten up in the De Gaulle game (granted I did play emperor and I wasn't ready..) and in the Joao game I had a rough time even though I was able to steal everything off of Izzy before she even got archers (monarch light) but still managed to scrape a win. I'd like to see a more "standard" type map for the next game, since the whole point of the series is supposed to be a more laid-back learning experience, but it's turning into something different, IMO.
     
  17. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,573
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    I agree rolo, which is why I let the map stand as is. Its easy to play maps where you have 2 food resources every 5 tiles, this map requires a MUCH bigger understanding of city placement and strategic play rather than basic principles that most of us already know.

    No worries though guys, we will go back to more standard layouts next round. I actually thought the Joao game was a piece of cake, but I closed Izzy off early and had an easy time from there.

    This does prove what I have been saying all along, that "Difficulty" is not defined solely in the level you play, its a combination of factors that include map, speed, AI positioning, starting land area, etc. ALL those things come into the picture when talking about difficulty.
     
  18. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,922
    Location:
    Orem, UT
    I would have been ecstatic to be Wang Kon on the map.

    Spoiler :
    A psycho next door and good hills to settle on is a Protective dream.
     
  19. schwartz

    schwartz King

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Messages:
    823
    Location:
    Detroit, MI, USA
    IMO, the whole point of the NC series was to learn basic principles to get people through the Noble/Prince difficulties. For those of us who've improved since the beginning, well, we can just choose monarch/emperor and play there, which, for most, is hard even on a normal map.
    That said, I love a good challenge, so this map suits me just fine; although I do see where it would put some (if not most) people off.
     
  20. Groogaroo

    Groogaroo King

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    970
    Location:
    London
    To be honest I don't mind these unusual or tougher maps (although I'm kicking myself for picking this game to try Monarch!). :hammer2:
     

Share This Page