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Nolition's CivIII Chronicle (Now Playing Game 3: Maya, Emperor)

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by Nolition, Mar 17, 2018.

  1. jiikoo

    jiikoo Chieftain

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    I see no pictures! (last post).
     
  2. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    "is irrigation generally superior to mining for all Agricultural purposes? Running specialists for production once cities become very large?"

    Mining is needed in places that will make structures and troops and have decent net shields. If neither is true, then water to gain growth and specialist. The later the game is, the more it makes sense to water new town, build or captured. As they will likely have high corruption and you probably have enough production in the core. Size of the city has no impact for me on irrigation or mining. A size 12 with 1 net shield can only be a farm.

    Specialist are really only taxmen or scientist to me. There are occasions, where I can use a policemen or an engineer, but not that common.
     
  3. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    "upon reading this sentence now I have to ask: you can "raze" your own cities to move them by building a settler? If this is the case - I was completely unaware."

    You cannot raze, but you can abandon a town/city/metro.

    You can use the command cntrl-g to make a grid. It is not as good nor as clear, but it works.

    Thanks for the good wishes.
     
  4. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Sorry to spam your story.

    You may want to do a search on Google civ3 popheads. You can find a small enhancement to the graphics for the F1 screen. The popheads as they are by default are sort of hard to see happy or not. The mod makes them standout.

    If you have a town like Verulamium, you can just flip the pop to a specialist to lower the odds of a flip. If I see it is a real risk, I will make the citizens a clown. If no real danger of attackers, then I leave only a trash unit for pacification. So as to not lose good units, should it flip.
     
  5. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    The good news about invasions for you is this map is a long thin landmass. That it should play like an island, except that they can come at you with numbers, but only from one direction. You can do some choke points. To make invasions by water a low concern, you need to have roads to all towns and ideally roads to most landing tiles. The exception to invasions is Theo, she has lethal bombardment from her Dromon. That can be dealt with by moving units out of the town.

    If you have an army with units of def 3 and is at least yellow, they can cover troops and not be attacked, except by patrolling units, till cavs. If your army is def 4, then it will not be attacked by any land units. I prefer to not get all the way to yellow, but so far it has been fine. Cav armies are not treated as def for some reason, but knights are. It is very rare for a mostly full health knight army to get attacked, but it does happen. If I end up with a pike army, after cavs come out, I only use the pike army to sit on cities to pacify.

    Sword armies, not reliable after knights iirc. I know I have lost a few in the past. They are just a stop gap in a pinch.

    Edit:
    I guess I should have mentioned, I am talking about armies in the field not in towns. Any army can be attacked in towns by any units.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  6. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

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    Forest chop-shields can only be obtained once per tile per game. So if the AI had previously chopped a tile, you cannot later get chop-shields from it by Plant+chopping it yourself; but if a tile has never been previously Forested, you can — provided that there is a town (in the Forest's BFC) eligible to receive them. Chop-shields can only be added to units and buildings, they do not contribute to Gr- or Sm-Wonders, or Wealth.

    CivAssist has a very neat feature on its map-screen that indicates which tiles are still available for chopping.
    Irrigating Desert around your core-towns is definitely worth it if AGRI, because for AGRI-Civs, irrigated Desert gives 2 FPT + 1SPT (like irrigated Plains) even before Rails, so the citizen who works the tile feeds themself, and brings in a shield + commerce — unlike non-AGRI Civs, where a citizen working (mined or irrigated) Desert must be fed using excess food obtained from another tile(s) in the BFC.

    Once Rails are added, an AGRI-Civ's Desert-food harvest increases to 3 FPT (again, like irrigated Plains), so it then becomes worth irrigating + railing around the Desert Specialist-farms as well (a non-AGRI Civ can just leave a Desert-farm at Pop1, with 1 Specialist eating the town's food, but an AGRI Civ could get the same town to Pop6, working 3 irrigated+railed Deserts and running 3 Specialists).

    But you should not be running Specialists in your core-towns if you can avoid it, expecially not once you've started putting up multiplier-buildings: all core-citizens should then rather be working tiles to maximise commerce (for conversion to beakers/gold).
    Yes, although it's not something that should be done routinely with your own towns (better to place it 'correctly' to start with!)

    (CivAssist also lets you plan your city placement ahead of time, to see where the BFC-overlaps will fall... ;) )

    But I quite often remove captured AI-towns like this. Doing so produces a Settler(Foreign) that costs me no maintenance, but can be used as a 'combat engineer', to found a Forward Operating Base adjacent to an AI border, or a beachhead-town on a new continent. I also do this when a captured town's general location is still close enough to my Palace to accommodate a productive city, but where the AI has 'misplaced' the town, e.g. 1 tile away from a river, or 1 tile from a coast, preventing me from Settling the better spot immediately.

    What was a surprise to me, though, is that even though a Settler normally costs 2 pop-points, with a non-AGRI Civ you can actually do this at Pop1 as well (as I say, the +1 AGRI-food bonus from the town-tile means that you can only get the net FPT to zero/negative, when an AGRI-town is at Pop2).
    Pressing "Ctrl-G" toggles the map gridlines on and off.

    It is also allegedly possible (according to a post made by Firaxian MikeB, long long ago, in a Civ3 forum far far away) to add the switch "GridOn=1" to the conquests.ini file, but this has never worked (for me) as advertised.
    Seconded.
    Your picture-links are broken for me, but I'm guessing from this...
    ...that Verulanium flipped back to Brennus...? I hope you didn't lose too many units...?

    But depending on how far along your irrigation-projects are, and how you currently stack up against him, I would concentrate on fully improving your core first, before declaring another war. You don't want those Desert-irrigating Workers to get captured by his Gallic Swords...

    EDIT:
    Having just posted this, I now see that all these questions had already been answered. Sorry for the duplication...
    Armies in the field may also be bombarded, if the AI has the units to do so.

    I once lost a full-health 12 HP Inf-Army, fortified in a Barricaded Fortress (I didn't build it, I just occupied it) on a choke-point directly adjacent to a city I'd just captured, to Ironclad-bombardment to redline, followed by an overland Cav-onslaught. Fortunately for me, Khan's Cavs were also forced to stop on the Barricade, and I had already railed up to that town, which let me bring my own Arty + Infs + Cavs to kill them all. The Mongols fell pretty soon after that...
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  7. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Yes you can bombard any army. I have lost many armies to bombers as well as having ships bombard them down to red and then having a land unit kill it. I try to avoid armies ending a turn on the coast, unless I know no ships can reach them or I have no choice. As to bombers, sometimes, you just have to go into harms way.

    "Having just posted this, I now see that all these questions had already been answered. Sorry for the duplication..." lol, done that many many times. Not a big deal and sometimes all aspects are not covered by the prior post. Especially at 3am. Not to mention that in my case, I have been known to have my wires cross so late in the day or any time.
     
  8. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    The Grid=1 does not work. If you use cnrl-g and then look at the ini, it will be set to 1. If you quit and load the game, the grid is not on. So it was intended to be a feature, but no one seems to have noticed it did not work. It is listed in the ini functions posted by Soren or one of the devs from years ago.

    Edit:
    I guess it does work as long as you set it each session, but it is not retained.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  9. Nolition

    Nolition Chieftain

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    I woke up to this, and went back and manually changed the codes from the last post. I will wait a day or two and see if they can resolve it before going back and changing all of the others.

    I will hopefully find some time to play some turns today, but it is the first day of the playoffs and I am a bit occupied with work. I've read everyone's posts and am mulling over things, contemplating and even trying to get some important things done in life before I leave for Europe next week.
     
  10. Nolition

    Nolition Chieftain

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    I don't mind! This is my hope - I see also that the We Love the X day reduces the risk of a flip. So using a number of entertainers to get it into this mode (and keep population low) should be effective.
    I agree. That ingame grid just looks strange to me. Oh well. Abandoning, yes. Quite interesting. I wish other civ games had this feature. Sometimes the AI is really baffling in how they arrange cities and I really want to move them, but don't want to raze because I need the foothold and don't want to lose infrastructure and population.

    This was probably what I noticed - lack of shields from replanting a previously chopped forest.
    And so begins Operation: Irrigation.
    Just a single Enkidu Warrior. Not the end of the world.
    That sounds shockingly persistent of the AI. I don't know if I've ever seen any of the AIs build ironclads.

    Spoiler Part 6 (hidden for quick page load) :


    Perhaps Education might help me with research deficit. It's costly to invest in that infrastructure, though. I don't even have cheap libraries in all of my cities at this point.



    Oh, great. I guess this means that two AIs are finished with the middle ages. The Hittites and the Dutch, in other words.



    It's time to get this war going so I can accomplish some of my more important strategic goals. However, things do not go exactly according to plan. His knights manage to kill my settler, overpower my worker escorts and generally wreak havoc. I'm out-killing him, but he is striking back as I progress into his territory. In a boneheaded move, I also managed to forget that I was at war with Korea and their horsemen were able to harass me behind the lines of combat.



    Entrement (his capital) falls under an onslaught of my Army and obsolete Swordsmen. The Pyramids is a nice bonus.



    Yeah, let's go for banking. It can't hurt, I figure. My research choices aren't feeling very inspired at this point - I'm pretty much just selecting mandatory techs. I don't know why I'm avoiding gunpowder. It's not really a conscious decision.



    The Hittites are making demands. I really want to reject it, but I am getting bogged down in fighting the Celts and cannot deal with even a small stack of Cavalry attacking me. He also has a bunch of units right up against my border, so I couldn't even play for time. I acquiesce, regretfully.



    This was also extremely regrettable. By this point, he had brought a not insignificant number of longbowmen to bear and I was on the verge of losing Entrement. The loss of war-happiness hit hard after I took this deal.



    At least this is done with. One less thing to worry about!



    I am starting to get sick of this mechanic! I was just in the process of retaking Verulamium. After this, I make sure that Entrement has only happy citizens.



    I managed to get some workers back, as well.



    Yet another bad deal for me. These are the two advanced civilizations, and the last thing I need is a boatload or two of cavalry being dumped on my coast.



    Finally, time to research gunpowder.



    I took a gamble on this one, definitely. But the pikeman died and I retook the city, losing all of my progress in building a courthouse. It could have been worse, though, and I have bigger concerns to deal with... You can also see the de-jungling effort, which I undertook because I was simply losing too many workers trying to irrigate while at war with the Celts. It was insanity, and I wish I knew the combat odds% that I lost in successive attacks.



    The more power to you, Brennus. I wasn't trading with them anyways.



    Having circumnavigated the continent, I disband the Curragh and change production over to a library. Lagash has been forced into a complete commerce-town because it's choked by my early city placement, but it can still contribute to my empire in the form of research. Which I badly need. I'll give it a few turns working those mines to complete the library quickly, and then exclusively work the coastal tiles.



    With the onslaught of knights steadily chipping away at my defences, I decide to temporarily halt the war in order to begin irrigation and re-stage some troops. This has been a long and bitter conflict, but I think it has overall gone acceptably.



    The Hittites were going to wreck my pet barbarians anyway, so I raided their encampment. Now I'm concerned that the dutch are going to stick a city there, just to annoy me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
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  11. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    I see you are building courts in lots of places. I do not know the lay of your land, but I would think that is not a good investment. To me, many players try to get corruption low and it frequently is a bad investment.

    Always evaluate every structure in terms of what it cost, what it yields. If the court gets a town one net shield for 80 shields and you are in a 1 net shield town to start, when is that going to be paid off? You still cannot build thing there. I would rather make some workers or settlers or a unit or beaker farm. You also have to consider how much longer is the game going to last and what will your needs be for the majority of that time. Tatung is a size 2 town that is not going to be growing very fast and will not be very productive. It has no water and will not have it for a long timer.

    As you now see, it is a wise plan to keep a captured town happy. Best done with specialist or rushing workers out.

    Like you mentioned, Banking is not the best choice at that time. It yields an expensive structure that you will be hard pressed to build many places for some time. You are running 50 taxes, 40 research on the pix I am looking at.
    This is killing you. What is the break down of you expenses? Try to reduce your overhead.

    The two likely big tickets are troops and structures. You may or may not be able to do much about the troops right now. Part of support cost is workers, make sure you are getting all you can out of them. Mainly reduce the times a worker waste moving back and forth. Gets roads on all worked tiles. Get tiles improved.

    Check on towns when they gain a pop to see if citizens are working the proper tiles. The gov likes to put pop on less than the best tiles.

    Create worker gangs for task. Don't mine in corrupt towns. Cut trees in corrupt towns and irrigate, if you have water.

    The big ticket is no useless structures. That is lib in places that have less than 8 net beakers and are not going to be making them. You cannot afford it. No temples in new towns in corrupt lands, build CxxC and you do not need border pops. Sell temples in places that do not need the happy bump.

    Try to pack in more towns for the unit support.

    Losing workers is a sin, lol. I make a strong effort to keep workers out of harms way, until late game. Then I have so many slaves, I can take some small risk for an important job.

    If you leave a unit on the camp hill no one can place a unit, no town will be built. I would get my settler to that site asap though. Set the pop to scientist and forget it.
     
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  12. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Do keep an eye on those jungle towns as the gov does place pop on jungle tiles. If you get disease in a town, you have two turns of dead citizens. It can be a pain, but in tough games, I will use CA2 to go to each town that grew to see, what was done. You will find the afore mentioned jungle tricks and things like moving to a tile with shields in a town that you want food for growth.
     
  13. Toxicman007

    Toxicman007 Custom User Title

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    One way I have used many times to discourage the culture flips is to spam workers/settlers from the city until the population is just 1. Then I can add my own settlers/workers to the city, giving it more of my people than those of whoever originally founded it. This can also be done with settlers/workers from a dead civ (like China in your game), as they do not create any risk of culture-flip since they literally can't flip back. In several games I have used this strategy sort of like a domino effect, where one civilization's citizens are all replaced by mine, and then the next are replaced by the (now dead) first civilization, and so on.
     
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  14. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

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    For WLTKD, the town must have Pop > 6, Happy citizens >= Content citizens, Unhappy citizens = 0.

    I know Specialists = Content for rioting purposes, but not sure if that applies to WLTKD as well. Resistors count as unhappy, as well, IIRC (possibly double-unhappy, don't remember the exact details), so no town will have WLTKD while still in resistance. Lux-resources make citizens Happy, but war against their parent Civ makes foreign citizens unhappy.

    While a war is still ongoing, one thing that you might think about doing on the first turn after you capture a town (while you can still safely garrison a large number of your invasion-troops inside it), is to tell the governator to "Manage moods". This will automatically convert any quelled citizens into Clowns on the following interturn, rather than allowing the city to riot because of all your 'aggression against our mother country'.

    Since all Specialists are content, it's better to use 'productive' Specialists (i.e. Scieintists or Taxmen) rather than Clowns whenever possible. So on the next and subsequent turns, those Clowns should be converted to Scientists (you'll have to turn off the governator to do this), along with any additional citizens quelled by any remaining defender(s). Specialists will likely starve away one-per-turn if the town is no longer producing sufficient food to support them (and you will therefore need to re-assign citizens every time that happens), but the sooner the resistance is quelled entirely, the sooner you can begin rushing Settlers/Slaves out of it to reduce the foreign population further, and increase your own workforce

    But if there is Forest, you can chop it for 1-turn Workers, even while the town is still in resistance.
    IIRC, that was @player1 fanatic's (slightly modded) .bix/.biq, where Ironclads became buildable with Steam rather than requiring their own specific tech (as in standard C3C) and were upgradeable from Frigates, and upgrades cost only 2 gold per shield-difference. So the AI tended to start building/upgrading them (a lot) earlier, and build (a lot) more of them.

    But even so, yeah, when I saw that stack (there must have been >20 of them, to redline an Inf-Army with all those defnesive bonuses), I still went a bit :eek: :faint:
    What are these, exactly? I've kind of assumed you're going for Domination/Conquest again, but you still lack Horses, which are pretty much essential to achieve this goal in the early/mid-game. Obviously the Celts have them, but you made peace with them before you reached their Horse-tile(s), so you are still not able to build Cavs.

    But if you're hoping rather to conquer with Tanks, then you should really be going all-out to improve the territory you already own, and fully develop all your towns to Pop12, while pursuing tech-research as fast as possible. So you would rather need to 'turtle' while putting up Ducts and Unis throughout your core, not engage in more military adventurism right now.
    See above. If you want Tanks, then yeah, you have to get through the Medieval tree as quickly as possible, so it's almost 'helpful' of the tech-leaders to have reduced the tech-costs for you, especially now that they're going to bog down in the Nationalism -> Fascism branch (if Willy now has Rifles, I would guess that Wang got Nat for free and traded it to him).
    One of the 'advantages' of a Desert/Jungle start, is that — provided you survive that long — you're almost certain to have both Salt (Cavs) and Rubber (Infs) within your borders when the relevant techs come in. And given that you have no fast units of your own yet, but are being attacked by Knights (and fell threatened by Cavs), Muskets are marginally preferable to Pikes as defenders, despite being twice the price.

    But you don't necessarily need Muskets in every town: maybe 1 Musket + 1-2 Pikes (and 1-2 Cannons?) at most in your land-border towns, 1 Musket or Pike in your coastal towns, and ZERO defenders in any (landlocked) towns that AI-Cavs can't reach in 1 turn. With towns separated CxxC, and a couple of decent attack-forces (e.g obsolete Armies) stationed in strategic locations, you should still be able to shift offensive and defensive foot-units around as needed to deal with any AI-incursions. Even at Emp, these will still be pretty lacklustre.
    Submitting was probably wise on that interturn, but I would be looking to end that 'deal' earlier than the full 20T, if possible (see below).
    But this not so much. First of all, you were still getting WH from Korea, which means less LUX%-spending ( and hence more SCI%).

    And (D=1) LBMs are a soft target on the defensive, even with their B=2 def-bomb. So if you have sufficient units to spare, Swords (A=3) and Maces (A=4) are quite capable of slaughtering LBMs — and Pikes (D=3) fortified in towns (D=4) can defend against them pretty adequately as well. But I'm guessing you didn't have those units to spare, possibly because you'd sent them back from the Celtic front to re-take Richborough and Verulanium...? If so, this was likely unwise.

    As @vmxa already said, as a general rule (at least, prior to Rails), all units (including Workers!) should ideally only ever march forwards/outwards from their place of origin, rather than backwards/inwards. So it would have been better to keep your Celtic-assault force on the front, because that's where the war is, and retake the flippers (perhaps a few turns later) with units newly built out of your core, which are already on their way to the front anyway!
    If possible, you might want to consider trying to engineer a 'Lazy Man's War' amongst Korea, Holland and the Hittites, to break at least one of those Lux-giveaways?

    Which of them is the biggest/most advanced? Pick that one (I'm guessing either the Hittites or the Dutch?) as Public Enemy No.1, start a war with him, and then persuade (using per-turn payments of gold and/or Lux) as many of the other 3 Civs as possible to gang up on him.
    e.g. Does Mursilis still have units in your borders? If so, you could position your units ready to attack his invaders, and tell him to 'Leave or declare': if he calls your bluff (which he probably would), you'd even get your WH back! Or you could just straight DoW Willy, and recruit Wang and Mursi to fight him on your behalf (maybe using the Lux(es) you're no longer paying to the Dutch).

    That way, they'll all waste their advanced/numerous units on each other (meaning fewer for you to fight later), while you'll likely only have to deal with occasional forays/unit drop-offs because you're further away. And if their wars go on long enough (Cavs vs Rifles, means they might), and WW gets bad enough, they'll drop out of Republic/ Democracy into a less economically powerful gov, which will cause further disruption to their research -- especially if one of them has also discovered Fascism by that point, causing them to lose pop-points throughout their territory when they revolt.
    See above. If it was the cheapest tech he could go for, Banking's not a bad choice in itself, because he will need it to advance to the Industrial anyway — and just because he has it, that doesn't then oblige him to build Banks!

    (NB @Nolition: Banks only amplify the TAX%-slice of your commerce, so are almost entirely useless if your LUX% + SCI% >= 80-90%, i.e. TAX% =< 20-10%. If you want to increase your income with what you've got, get more towns 'Ducted and to Pop7+, because each town you develop into a city, will save at least 4 GPT in excess unit-maintenance — never mind the additional commerce they'll bring in from the extra tiles worked).

    Sure, he could rather have picked Gunpowder for Salt/Muskets (and then Cannon), or Astro for Explorers to unfog the black, but if those techs are more expensive, then it might well be better to get more Ducts(=pop), Libs, and Unis up first. And he also has plenty of Iron, but no Horses yet, and Muskets are less cost-effective than Pikes, so going the standard warmonger-beeline for Gunpowder -> Metallurgy -> (optional) MilTrad doesn't really help him much at this stage.
     
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  15. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    You need Gunpowder to advance to the next age as well, so that point is not a counter point. Pikes are cheaper unit, but no longer cost effective as cavs are on the map. Pikes cannot really handle cavs and muskets are not all that good with them either, but have a better chance of surviving.

    My concern is that players will start building banks and further cripple their survival. Seen it over and over. It seems to me he has been at war a great deal of the time in this game and that was why I said Republic is not the optimal gov for that game. Republic is best for a start that is at least decent, his is not. I would want to have a good amount of green tiles in my area for Republic. The island like land mass and lack of resources meant a lot of fighting. You fight to get more land and resources, they fight as they see you are weaker. All in all a lot of war.

    This means a lot of units, not that good for a Republic low on lux. You pay twice as much for unit maint. You gain less in terms of MP. Your draft rate is half of Monarchy. Yes you gain commerce, but may not be enough to offset the negatives. Not to mention WW. The biggest thing in my book is Republic requires that you are pretty good at managing your empire, mainly workers.

    Not sure what getting more towns and pop have to do with the branch you research. You are going to research something and what ever it is, you still should be making towns and growing them to cities. As to libs, I find most players build too many and in towns that do not make them profitable at that time. Often starting one as the second structure, after a temple. The lib will not be making enough extra beakers for some time and that lib can wait till they have more pop, if at all. Later they make a court as the net beakers/gold is poor. Now you have even more maint cost and lost opportunity in terms of shields. All the shields put into those structures in a corrupt town could have made units/workers/settlers.
     
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  16. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    This is the link to the best popheads in Civ 3 Forum, "popHeads Smileys and CivColors Complete: All Epic, Scenarios and Conquests":

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...lete-all-epic-scenarios-and-conquests.122958/

    In addition to a very distinct facial expression, a small colored flag indicates the nationality of each citizen in a city.

    Very handy to have and easy to implement. You won't get Happy people and Content people confused again.
     
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  17. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

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    ...just here for the job/ handouts/ woman
    Yaaaay! @CommandoBob, in da house! :dance:
    True, but if Gunpowder was/is more expensive, that alone might be reason enough to do Banking first. Also, when the AI has Horse-powered units but the player does not, then almost by definition the player is going to be less able to exercise initiative, and more likely to take damage. A player still restricted to foot-units therefore can't rely on the 'minimal/zero town-defenders' tactic, because then his garrisoned attack-units would take the hits instead — and because attackers tend to have lower D-values, even if they survive, they'll still likely be too injured to make counter-attacks on the following turn. So the player will 'need' comparatively more (town) defenders, especially on the frontlines, but Muskets cost twice as much to build as Pikes, so only half as many can be built within a given timespan.

    To date, @Nolition's only been dealing with A=4 units (Knights, Maces, LBMs), which Pikes (plus some def-bonuses) should be able to cope with just fine, once the his attackers have killed/chased off the bulk of the incoming stack(s). Yes, once he's actually tangling with Cav-armed Civs (the Celts are his next target, and I don't think Brennus is there yet), then Muskets would be preferable (I did actually say that already!), but until then, max. 2 Pikes per immediately vulnerable border-town should be sufficient. And yes, this will cost more unit-maintenance than 1 Musket — but it's better to 'lose' the extra unit maintenance than the town!
    I agree, which is why I pointed out how useless Banks are for a longer, Science-focussed game (which this looks like turning into).

    Markets, sure, for the Lux-happiness boost (he has 3 Luxes within his borders already, so a Market will give him 4 Happies already), but not Banks.
    He does actually have quite a large 'green' area (most of his core is effectively green — including the Deserts, once he's irrigated them!), but a lot of his Grassland was/is still under Forests and Jungle. So yeah, more Workers/Slaves (and better Worker-management) would also be helpful (in future games).
    See above: 3 Luxes when most towns are still at or near Pop6 is not that low. More Luxes would obviously be better, though.

    And WH from AI-DoWs can partly make up for low Lux — provided you don't make peace sooner than you have to...
    Not with which branch you research, no — but with how fast you progress through the (more expensive techs in the) tree, absolutely.
    Anyone who builds a Temple before a Lib, and/or completes a Lib before a town is bringing in at least 10 (uncorrupted) commerce per turn, is kind of asking to lose the game... ;)

    Where's that quote from @Bede when you need it...? Ahhh... found it...
    Quite.
    Which is why I do it the other way round: I'd rather garrison an outer-core town with units built from my inner (Barracks)-towns/cities, while it builds a Courthouse.

    On which subject @Nolition, why are you currently building a Courthouse in Tatung, rather than Settler-disbanding it and moving it to the Hill as advised? The point of that instruction was to allow you to pass the Desert-irrigation canal (from Celtia) directly through the Hill, to the already cleared Grassland SW of Umma, rather than having to spend multiple extra Worker-turns clearing the Jungle NE of the Mountain.
    No arguments here, either.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  18. Nolition

    Nolition Chieftain

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    That pretty much sums up my thought process. Get corruption as low as possible, and a bit too much "rule-think". Courthouse first, always. Your next paragraph convinced me that this is not the best investment for my shields.

    Science: -106
    Entertainment: 0
    Corruption: -54
    Maintenance: -45
    Unit Costs: -20
    To Other Civs: 0

    I will be doing some management of this and see if I can grow/add to my cities for more unit allowance (emphasizing food for growth) and especially focus on seeing if there is anywhere that I can reduce maintenance costs when I open the game.

    I'd say you are absolutely correct. No banks. Definitely not worth it, especially with the game in the state that it is.
    Right, I wasn't thinking of this when I was playing that last set of turns. I'll probably see if I can cover the area until the settler arrives.

    It certainly makes me crazy. Needless waste!

    I hadn't thought about temples being a common waste before, but I can see how it's really not useful. With that post from Bede, as well. And by sticking a town or two to fill the gap (there is a rather large one that can be seen) I can also get the town-number up and increase unit allowance and throw a few scientists in for research rate.

    I'm not totally sure if I understand the ethnicity aspect of this game. If I produce workers out of a city with a foreign ethnicity, will they be these half-effective slave workers? How does the game determine which ethnicity to remove from the population in a town if it's a mix?

    Ah, that's what I wasn't taking into account. Oops.

    Right, this follows from above. If there's no benefit to keeping the small town all-happy, those entertainers aren't useful. May as well be scientists.

    I suppose that that is the moment where you do have to at least give the AI credit for coming in numbers.

    You ask the tough questions! My goal was to get to their source of horses, which was ultimately not realized in that last war. Basically, I want to be able to build cavalry upon researching Military Tradition and not have to worry about trying to secure horses. I also am envisioning an endgame where I am forced into a war with the Hittites to attempt to stop them from winning by Spaceship, and am thinking that I must push close enough to their territory that I can attack them when it becomes necessary. Of course, I'm nowhere near the point where I could even hope to win that conflict.

    This is an alternative plan, though. I have been operating on the unwritten assumption that I am hopelessly out of the tech game and have no hope of closing the ground because of how far ahead the AIs have blazed. Getting to tanks... is another way that this could work.

    I can plead not-guilty on this one! :) The units that were retaking Richborough and Verulanium were freshly produced. The problem was, basically, that I was losing pikemen at a slow but steady rate on the front lines. My replacements were not enough to make up for my losses, and my army was never able to heal fully due to the fact that I was constantly having to take out attacking knights with it and being very cautious to avoid redlining.

    Would this be worth paying to establish embassies? I will admit - I have avoided this because I don't see much benefit for spending that gold when I'm already economically backwards. I will look into options when I open the game up and see if any of them are willing to join me against the Hittites (who are more advanced and stronger than the Dutch this game).

    Re: Tatung. Honestly, I am not sure what I was thinking in not moving it. Probably a function of the extreme sleep deprivation of the last week. I know that I considered it but something else happened and I think I just never actually changed the build and forgot about the city. Oops.

    Thank you!

    I hope to be able to play tonight in a few hours. I've just been so busy with real life concerns that my free time has suffered a lot, and I haven't been able to fit turns in like I'd prefer to. This game is also a lot more challenging than the last, which is making it take longer! That's the fun of Civ!
     
  19. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    "I'm not totally sure if I understand the ethnicity aspect of this game. If I produce workers out of a city with a foreign ethnicity, will they be these half-effective slave workers? How does the game determine which ethnicity to remove from the population in a town if it's a mix?"

    Yes, but still better than nothing and better than a flip. I do not mind a flip, if I am still at war with the owner. I just take it back, but at peace no can do. Honorable, no breaking treaties.

    "This is an alternative plan, though. I have been operating on the unwritten assumption that I am hopelessly out of the tech game and have no hope of closing the ground because of how far ahead the AIs have blazed. Getting to tanks... is another way that this could work."

    You are still alive and that means you can win. You can make armies and the AI does not. So you can do a lot of damage in a hurry with a bunch of fast moving armies.

    You can use the pointy stick research as you have already. Later you can steal techs, if you can get some cash. This may not be easy given where you are now and the AI may not have cash for you to take in grabbing towns.

    As to embassies, it depends. If not at war, I will try to get one, so I can maybe steal or at least have some information. As the AI gets more towns the price goes up for them iirc, but they are not mandatory.

    Yes the game turns get longer as you go and the higher the level (they have more units to move around). I played a lot of 250x250 31 civs on emperor as AW. Some times the animation for a settler took up to two minutes. If you have a lot of water and a lot of harbors are in the game, it really slows down. That is why Civinator made no harbors in CCM.

    Had some real long turns on sid, with over 800 attackers hitting my beach head town on the IBT. Go get some snacks and come back to see, if the town fell or not.
     
  20. Nolition

    Nolition Chieftain

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    I did end up playing. Oh boy. Here's the writeup:

    Spoiler Part 7 (hidden for quick page load) :


    No shields wasted, and settler done in one turn.



    I decide to buy that Embassy. The Dutch are not willing to go to war, no matter what.



    Same story with the Koreans.



    Unfortunately, I don't have any saltpeter. Which kind of makes the whole pikemen/musketmen discussion moot. I feel like I should have known that of course there are no resources within my territory. Par for the course! Haha.



    I stick a settler up on the hill and turn my attention to settling the desert and engaging in the massive irrigation project to bring fresh water to my core cities.



    Barbarian encampment in the desert!



    Just as I was settling in to this "get to tanks, conquer" plan and building libraries/universities, irrigating, etc. the Dutch decide to throw a wrench in my plans.



    Chemistry really is not going to save me. Neither is physics, but I'm researching it anyway.



    Despite the initial Dutch waffling, things are beginning to heat up. You can see the beginnings of their buildup outside Entrement. Just ancient units on this turn, but the cavalry and riflemen are not far behind! I settle Kuara in the desert.



    Entrement falls.



    But I retake it with my army. This was probably a mistake, because...



    They slay my army and retake the city again.



    This does not seem to be an adequate consolation prize.



    My garrisons were already slightly out of position due to having to cover the workers when I discovered a second barbarian encampment unexpectedly, and the Dutch cavalry was quickly able to cross the neutral roaded desert and capture Verulamium. This city is proving to be no end of trouble.

    So there we have it.

    Will I still be able to build the Military Academy even though my army is dead?
    Yikes!
    Yes, I am trying to stay positive at this point! I may not see a path to victory at present, but that does not mean that everything is truly hopeless.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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