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Non-financial coastal cities

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by PartAnon, Jan 27, 2010.

  1. PartAnon

    PartAnon Emperor

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    Because I tend to favor commerce over production, it hasn't been until recently that I realized just how crappy non-financial coast was. Still, if there's a coastal location and a seafood resource, I will settle it, work the seafood and some land, and then spend almost half of the game whipping away coastal tiles to build infrastructure. At some point I will grow the city onto the coast, but I don't know if I tend to do it too early or too late. Not counting wonders such as the Colossus or Moai, when do you decide to start growing onto the coast, if at all?
     
  2. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

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    Pretty late in the game - seafood is obviously useful, but 2F 2C isn't much to write home about in a tile you can't improve. Unless it's a small island city to generate trade routes, not much need for those coast tiles.
     
  3. Leventis

    Leventis Warlord

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    How does fin make coastal any better?
     
  4. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

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    1 extra commerce at least makes them a bit more palatable, but still, vast majority of improved land tiles will be better.
     
  5. Leventis

    Leventis Warlord

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    Yeah I know, but I mean you still have to whip pop to get infrastructure up. Coastal cities are still great for resources and trade routes. If you're settling them just to work a 3:commerce: coast then you're going to have problems.
     
  6. PartAnon

    PartAnon Emperor

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    So does that make the Colossus kind of useless without FIN?
     
  7. Leventis

    Leventis Warlord

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    Talking w/o wonders, dikes, etc according to your OP.
     
  8. ilikepies

    ilikepies Warlord

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    Coastal cities can actually be very capable if you're Financial. Still, cottages, mills, workshops, and farms will make much better tiles, UNLESS you happen to be a water leader. Portugal and financial leaders can make 3 food 3 commerce coastal tiles in any city without adding wonders or resources, Carthage can make 3 food 3 commerce tiles, plus one trade route tiles without adding any wonders or resources, and the Netherlands can make 3 food 3 commerce 1 production tiles without adding any wonders or resources. When added to the trade route bonuses from having coastal cities, that isn't bad at all, especially if you manage to get fish and wonders. I remember one game as Willem where I ended up with a city that had coasts with 3 food, 4 gold, and 2 production, plus some fish squares.

    If you're not financial/Portugal(Portuguese UB makes up the difference) though, they're only good if they have seafood or you don't have better places to settle
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Since when did any coastal city get the ability to have 3F coast?! Pretty sure that's impossible without some worldbuilder help (aka giving both a lighthouse and a trading post).
     
  10. Wlauzon

    Wlauzon Prince

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    There are a few good coastal starts, usually where the land has kind of a harbor or deep indent. That way most of your squares are still land but it does give sea access for building wonders and ships.

    But in general most coastal cities will be inferior to internal ones.
     
  11. NonPrayinMantis

    NonPrayinMantis Warlord

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    There is a random event that gives one non-resource coastal tile +1 food (Sea turtles, I think). But I know that you play with random events off.

    NPM
     
  12. PartAnon

    PartAnon Emperor

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    Yes, but if even FIN coasts are marginal as you suggest, then it makes non-FIN coasts even less appealing, with or w/o the wonders. I don't know how many times I've built the Colossus as non-FIN and thought that we were okay until Astro. Wrong!
     
  13. Leventis

    Leventis Warlord

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    I'm not saying fin coasts are marginal. I don't have a problem with coastal at all. All I'm trying to say is that fin or no fin really has very little effect on your coastal tiles at all. Slightly better with Fin, but that's it -- settle the damn city and move on :).
     
  14. DigitalBoy

    DigitalBoy Emperor

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    Coast tiles aren't amazing and certainly not competitive with grassland cottages in the long run, but they're still self-sustaining tiles that provide 2:commerce:. If food is sufficiently poor enough to make cottage spam unfeasible, working coasts is better than nothing.
     
  15. NonPrayinMantis

    NonPrayinMantis Warlord

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    I agree. IF you have used all the land tiles available to a city, AND you have not reached your health/happy cap yet, you might as well use the costal tiles and grow larger, picking up a new coast tile as you increase in pop.

    Of course, feel free to whip off excess population from costal tiles if you need to.

    NPM
     
  16. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Per DaveMCW:

    Riverside cottage > Colossus coast > non-riverside cottage > non-colossus coast.

    What this tells us is that coast can indeed be a very strong play with colossus on some maps, and that a city with it isn't TOO gimped, given that it can get better trade routes, more health than anywhere but freshwater, and build boats.
     
  17. Bostock

    Bostock King

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    Speaking more generally, I've come to bide by the rule that it's not the worst five tiles that matter, it's the best five tiles. So unless I'm getting about six or more coastal/sea out of the siting, I don't avoid coast. By the same reasoning, I don't always even avoid "one-off-the-coast", if that improves my Best Five Tiles and I'm not losing seafood/lakes.
     
  18. Nilmerf

    Nilmerf Warlord

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    My rule of thumb is to work 2C coast once Astronomy hits. The overseas trading will not only increase your happy/health caps, but slowly growing the city will produce bigger trade income as well. The extra pops can be turned into Rifleman or whatever if need be.
     
  19. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    Coast squares are food-neutral with the lighthouse, with a single food resource you can serve your production needs by whipping and have enough commerce to more than recover the maintenance/upkeep.
    They aren't a high priority without the Great Lighthouse but worth founding.
     
  20. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Also, don't forget that you need at least one coastal city for neighbour-independent intercontinental (resouce) trade.

    I don't know what I hate more - settling plains riversides (and I mean all plains, not a single grassland tile) or seaside cities without seafood.
     

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