Non-terrain specific pantheon beliefs

[Poomermon]

In my opinion it is usually better to take those beliefs that have synergy with your terrain. Like if your city is on a desert with river the obvious pick is desert folklore. But what do you pick if you don't have much anything specific terrain near your city? So what are your thoughts on those "neutral" belief listed below?

Faith healers - +30 extra heal when adjacent to a friendly city
Fertility rites - +10% faster growth
God of craftsmen- +1 production in cities with 3+ pop
God of war - Gain faith if you win a battle within 4 tiles of your city
Goddess of love- +1 happiness from cities with pop 6+
Goddess of protection - +30% city ranged strength
Messenger of the gods - +2 science for cities with trade routes
Monument to the gods- +15% production to ancient and classical wonders
Religious settlements - +15% faster border growth
Sacred waters - +1 happiness from cities on rivers

I personally like messenger of the gods belief a lot. It gives a decent science boost early on and stays relevant to the late game for wide empires. Goddess of love seems to be the best for the late game but is pretty much worthless early on. Fertility rites might be good for tall empires but I have not tested it yet. What are your thoughts on those beliefs?

 

[civnoob13]

If there's no specific terrain bonus I can get I always go for fertility rights (unless I'm Byzantine, in which case messenger of the gods). A boost to growth is a boost to science, production, gold, and everything that comes with it. I've heard a lot of good about faith healers but have never tried it personally. I like sacred waters because I nearly always expand next to a river. Monument to the gods seems a little weak, it should probably give a 10 or 15% boost for all eras rather than just ancient and classical IMO. Religious settlements stands out for me as by far the worst of them all.

 

[Lyoncet]

One huge thing to consider is if you plan on founding/spreading a religion. If you do, there are some things you may not want to take, like Faith Healers if you're planning on conquest. It's great to be able to heal up quickly after taking an enemy city, but since the one tactic the AI seems to understand is "crap I'm almost dead so I should fortify until healed," that could cause a lot more headaches than it would solve. Other Pantheons, like Messenger of the Gods, dwindle a little in their effectiveness later on, so you don't need to worry as much. Not to say that MotG ever gets bad, just that it becomes a smaller and smaller percent of your tech pie as the game progresses. Same with one like God of Craftsmen – in the early game, getting an extra 1 is a huge benefit, even if you need to wait until 3 pop (which usually isn't long). But once you have workshops everywhere and your cities are size 10, it's not a huge deal.

Also, I agree with Poomermon that Religious Settlements is probably the worst pantheon and likely the worst belief altogether. The number of tiles you want and can work and won't pop naturally and can't afford to just buy is already small enough in any game. Getting those couple tiles 15% faster isn't going to do anything for you. Ever. Just take 1 Tradition and save yourself the pantheon.

 

[thadian]

i like messenger of the gods a lot, good for carthage colonies with free harbors, great for wide empires that struggle to get a library in each city and only gets better as the game goes on - even for tall empires with <4 cities, i take it unless i am going for terrain specific.

Terrain specific to me, means also that i will pick fertility rights if i have a LOT of grasslands and see a "big food" opening potential to combo up a lot of great people.
Uusually i land a lot of early merchants which turn into custom houses and make me rich while aiming toward commerce.

God of war - there is something to be said for traidition, god of war, faith healers, just war, autocracy, honor, great generals/admirals, ethiopia, etc... i also consider this terrain specific, depending on the geopolitical terrain of how close my neighbors are. Once in a warmongering game can be fun.

 

[Yzman]

How is sacred waters not a terrain one? I would say its one of the better terrain bonuses because cities so often start on rivers.

 

[Buccaneer]

Messenger of the Gods assumes trade routes, which (except for Carthage) doesn't always happen. If it does, for tall empires, it can come later when gold has been stabilized, which by that time, the bonus becomes nearly irrelevant.

I'g do with Faith Healers or Fertility Rites.

 

[tibbles]

Am I missing something for Messenger? The bonus sounded kind of small to me. Real early game, trade routes cost more to maintain than they make, so that's like trading 2-3 gold for 2 science. By the time I'd have a wide empire all connected, 2 per doesn't sound like much. But I see a lot of posters praising it.

Then again, I suppose if the above list was the only possible set of options, it'd be my 2nd or 3rd choice behind Fertility and situationally Faith Healers.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Messenger of the Gods works well with the Arabs, Iroquois, or Inca, who can maintain large trade routes cheaply.

 

[Glassmage]

Religious Settlements is good to steal lands you want. Plop a city near a city state with Mt.Fuji and you can steal it easy.

 

[Barghaest]

I've used both Messenger of the Gods and Gods of Craftsmen (someone else beat me to the terrain specific best for my area - both games ). I found Messenger of the Gods quite useful for keeping pace with Korea a little better and Gods of Craftsmen was VERY useful since most of my early cities had low production areas (great coastal sites though and I was REALLY miffed at losing God of the Sea! ).

I've fought against AI who chose Faith Healers and lemme tell you it was NASTY (especially trying to spank their galleasses so I could establish a foothold on the new continent ) and I had to do a lot more tactical maneuvering, fire concentration and bring a lot more numbers to overcome their defenders who just fortified every turn (even with a slight tech advantage).

 

[Harv72b]

Messenger of the Gods should be your default pantheon as Carthage, plain and simple. Unless your starting terrain screams for a different one (and it won't often), you're just insane not to choose it. For the commenters above who said it seems like a small reward or that it dwindles over time, it also gets you to the point where it can dwindle much faster (especially if you're rexing). +2 /trade route in the early game is huge, and can make the difference between getting a crucial early wonder or not, or even just getting libraries into your cities a few turns earlier and creating a snowball effect for the rest of the game.

With other Civs it's a bit more fluid. You left my favorite fall-back pantheon off the list--I forget the name, but it's the one that adds +1 per shrine and can be really useful in the early game, while again creating a snowball effect. I can see Goddess of Love being beneficial for a civ like India (although for some reason I keep seeing the AI pick it as Attila ). Ethiopia or anyone playing a primarily defensive style can benefit from Faith Healers or Goddess of Protection.

Really, Monument to the Gods is the only one that I see as a total waste, except maybe for someone looking to build a complete collection of wonders on Settler.

 

[Babri]

Religious settlements is not as worse as ppl think. In my game as Ethopia I took religious settlements & went for tradition. Now my city borders expanded explosively, my 2nd city even took those tiles which were near to Persian capital than my city, but still I got all of those tiles including some nice ones having luxuries. This allowed me to keep my UA functional as well as I had a quite sizeable empire with only 3 cities.

 

[yorkgrass]

Some new thoughts about Monument to the gods, it maybe weak comparing to others, but most of the time it will only benefit the founder, since the religion spreading will not start until late classic era. (most of the time in my games anyway) So I can spread the religion more freely without worring that opponents will benefit from it more than myself.

 

[sendos]

How is sacred waters not a terrain one? I would say its one of the better terrain bonuses because cities so often start on rivers.

This. May as well cross that pantheon off the list. Here are my thoughts on the non-terrain pantheons. Colour scale from green (good) to red (bad) enabled:

Faith healers - Effective with defence and warmongering, but if you spread your religion, your enemies can use this pantheon against you. Then it would be really difficult to defeat your enemies at times. In multiplayer, I also don't recommend getting this, because the first thing a pro opponent would do is get religious tolerance and then keep your religion at bay, but still offer some pressure within their cities. Basically, they steal your pantheon and reap the epic defensive/recovery rewards. However, this would be very powerful if pantheon founder could use this ability from enemy cities with your religion (or does it already do that? I do not know. )
Fertility rites - this pantheon is rather useful indeed and is suitable for either tall or wide play.
God of craftsmen- This pantheon is horrible. It's only 1 ! So what? How about +1 per 3 followers, rather than +1 for 3 or more followers?
God of war - very situational. If you're next to warmongering civ, I recommend it. Otherwise, this is quite a useless pantheon.
Goddess of love- Obviously, this pantheon lacks a bit of love. Only +1 per city, assuming the religion spreads well and your (presumingly wide) empire has a bit of height. In some cases, such as war and really bad , it could make a difference.
Goddess of protection - I'm sure this pantheon makes a difference in times of war but when I see the damage calculation, it looks like as if the city ranged strength buffs are broken. For example: 8 + 30% = 8.30 . Why is it not 10.4?
Messenger of the gods - This is an epic pantheon! It counteracts the science penalty when expanding. Do not get this if you are going tall, though.
Monument to the gods - Unless you are ahead in science at the start of the game, which is unlikely, maybe it's good to get this. Otherwise, it's useless after medieval era.
Religious settlements - It helps a bit for wide empires but tradition, along with Shoshone UA, overshadows this pantheon. Of course tradition + this pantheon would be expansive overkill but if your borders aren't really contested, it's not worth it.

 

[yorkgrass]

This. May as well cross that pantheon off the list. Here are my thoughts on the non-terrain pantheons. Colour scale from green (good) to red (bad) enabled:

Faith healers - Effective with defence and warmongering, but if you spread your religion, your enemies can use this pantheon against you. Then it would be really difficult to defeat your enemies at times. In multiplayer, I also don't recommend getting this, because the first thing a pro opponent would do is get religious tolerance and then keep your religion at bay, but still offer some pressure within their cities. Basically, they steal your pantheon and reap the epic defensive/recovery rewards. However, this would be very powerful if pantheon founder could use this ability from enemy cities with your religion (or does it already do that? I do not know. )
Fertility rites - this pantheon is rather useful indeed and is suitable for either tall or wide play.
God of craftsmen- This pantheon is horrible. It's only 1 ! So what? How about +1 per 3 followers, rather than +1 for 3 or more followers?
God of war - very situational. If you're next to warmongering civ, I recommend it. Otherwise, this is quite a useless pantheon.
Goddess of love- Obviously, this pantheon lacks a bit of love. Only +1 per city, assuming the religion spreads well and your (presumingly wide) empire has a bit of height. In some cases, such as war and really bad , it could make a difference.
Goddess of protection - I'm sure this pantheon makes a difference in times of war but when I see the damage calculation, it looks like as if the city ranged strength buffs are broken. For example: 8 + 30% = 8.30 . Why is it not 10.4?
Messenger of the gods - This is an epic pantheon! It counteracts the science penalty when expanding. Do not get this if you are going tall, though.
Monument to the gods - Unless you are ahead in science at the start of the game, which is unlikely, maybe it's good to get this. Otherwise, it's useless after medieval era.
Religious settlements - It helps a bit for wide empires but tradition, along with Shoshone UA, overshadows this pantheon. Of course tradition + this pantheon would be expansive overkill but if your borders aren't really contested, it's not worth it.

looks like we have to state under what difficulty the game is. to me, I'm under king or emperor difficulty, so I always manage to have science advance, so the monument ot the gods is a must have.

 

[Ravellion]

The new God King pantheon is quite good if your terrain is useless. I mostly take it if religion is likely not to be (a major) part of my game plan.

 

[loserforsale]

This list ought to contain Ancestor Worship.

Ancestor Worship - possibly useful if you're opening with Piety or Liberty. If you're going tall, then there are other pantheons which will tend to give more culture than this.
Faith healers - I've never seen the use of this, but other people seem to like it.
Fertility rites - If there's nothing else, then this isn't bad. It's also one of the longest-lasting pantheons in terms of its usefulness.
God of craftsmen- This used to be popular for ICS. Now that science costs have killed ICS, it's less useful. That said, there aren't many pantheons which give extra production; I could imagine this might be good in a jungle start if you miss out on Sacred Path.
God of war - How much fighting do you really do nowadays in the early game?
Goddess of love- This could be useful in the long-term, but in the early game you're unlikely to be getting more than 1 happiness from this.
Goddess of protection - Even if 30% represented an appreciable increase in the city's ranged strength, this would still be pathetic.
God-king - I like this one. If you're not expecting to keep your pantheon then this is an excellent one in the early game, whose benefits become less noticable as the game goes on, so if you're not planning on getting a religion (e.g. you picked up a faith ruin or ran into a few religious city-states) then this is a great way to go.
Messenger of the gods - A nice boost if you're going wide, but given that going wide now increases tech costs, the best use of this - for ICSing - is gone.
Monument to the gods- like God-King, useful if you're not planning on keeping it around.
Religious settlements - generally not all that good; that said, if someone forward settles on you, this might possibly be good if you don't want to go to war but need to claim the tiles in the middle.
Sacred waters - +1 happiness from cities on rivers