non-tradable advancements tech

[Theov]

In my mod, I've tried to make the Ancient Age a little more interesting, by making the first two 'columns' of techs untradeable.
This means you'll have to research all of these techs yourself.

I did this, because I could develop Philosophy, slingshot the Republic and then trade everything within only a few turns.

Now, I wonder if someone else has done this.

I might bring it back to just the first column, because otherwise, this whole age takes too long...

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

I would be very interested in what you find with this, Theov. I considered doing the same for my own mod. Especially, how this would affect play on high difficulty levels where tech trading is vital to survival.

 

[tjs282]

I once made a small mod where the 'super-unit' military techs were untradeable: Iron Working + HbR in the Ancient Age, Metallurgy + Magnets + MilTrad in the Medieval, Nationalism + RepParts in the Industrial, Fission + Synthetic Fibres in the Modern. Didn't play-test it very much, though.

 

[timerover51]

I have been thinking about doing an entire biq with all technologies untradeable. I already have some as untradeable. I will post a list.

 

[Civinator]

Setting the early techs in era 1 untradeable in my eyes weakens the expansionist trait massively, as one of the advantages of that trait is to have early contacts to other civs to trade techs.

In the CCM mod about two thirds of the era 3 techs and the complete era 4 techs are untradeable to trigger more spying actions (and more wars by them) and to stabilize the economic system for many civs a little bit, which run into bankruptcy by buying techs from other civs.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

That makes sense, Civinator, although for my purposes it won't matter as all civs will start with the expansionist trait.

I have to say I haven't gotten into Era 4 of CCM since my games tend to be resolved by mid-Era 3. I will need to make an effort to do so and see how it plays out.

 

[Theov]

Setting the early techs in era 1 untradeable in my eyes weakens the expansionist trait massively, as one of the advantages of that trait is to have early contacts to other civs to trade techs.

In the CCM mod about two thirds of the era 3 techs and the complete era 4 techs are untradeable to trigger more spying actions (and more wars by them) and to stabilize the economic system for many civs a little bit, which run into bankruptcy by buying techs from other civs.

Popping those tech huts now becomes a major benefit. You cant trade it away thiugh, thats true, but the opponent cant trade them with each other either.

I am now gearing towards making only the first tech collumn untradable. Two is too much and slows down the game too much. Cities are well developed by the time you get further down the game.
But it does feel better.
Still roading your first core and already going to another age, which is possible in the unmodded game, just feels weird.

 

[Civinator]

Popping those tech huts now becomes a major benefit. You cant trade it away thiugh, thats true, but the opponent cant trade them with each other either.

The goody huts are only one part of the expansionist trait. The other part are the early contacts to other civs for trading techs (even received by normal research or by starting the game) by the additional scout unit.

 

[Civinator]

I have to say I haven't gotten into Era 4 of CCM since my games tend to be resolved by mid-Era 3. I will need to make an effort to do so and see how it plays out.

This is mostly the same for me (and in most succession games), too. My guess is, that this is related to the MV 3 units coming into game in era 3.

 

[Theov]

The goody huts are only one part of the expansionist trait. The other part are the early contacts to other civs for trading techs (even received by normal research or by starting the game) by the additional scout unit.

Map knowledge is another big one, too.
But yeah, it might hurt the exp a bit

 

[Ares de Borg]

I've got the "Dark Age" Tech at the start of the Medieval Era in my mod. It's kind of a gate keeper tech: Non-Scientific Civs have to go through it by themselves, while scientific Civs get boosted through it. It does work.

 

[Alekseyev_]

Setting the early techs in era 1 untradeable in my eyes weakens the expansionist trait massively, as one of the advantages of that trait is to have early contacts to other civs to trade techs.

In the CCM mod about two thirds of the era 3 techs and the complete era 4 techs are untradeable to trigger more spying actions (and more wars by them) and to stabilize the economic system for many civs a little bit, which run into bankruptcy by buying techs from other civs.

I would argue that when editing a biq to make techs untradeable, you also have the position to buff exp in other ways. Like half-price granaries, cheaper settlers (for example like in Rhye's of Civilisation, where settlers become more expensive with each age but less so for expansive civs).

 

[tjs282]

In unmodded Civ3, the Exp trait doesn't provide 50% shield-discounts on "Expansionist"-flagged generic buildings (nor do the Comm or Ind traits for buildings with those respective flags).

So if you wanted Exp Civs to have cheaper Granaries, you'd need to mod one in, and make it dependent on an Era=None tech (or resource) that only Exp Civs have (or can see).

 

[Alekseyev_]

The Exp trait doesn't provide 50%-discounts on buildings (nor do the Comm or Ind traits).

So if you wanted Exp Civs to have cheap Granaries, you'd need to mod one in, and e.g. make it dependent on an Era=None tech (or resource) that only Exp Civs have (or can see).

Good to know, I wasn't aware. I only knew commercial that the commercial flag doesn't reduce the price and is instead used for the pays-trade-maintenance wonder effect.
Are there other flags without any effect?

 

[timerover51]

I am going to try this out on the Age of Discovery (World Map) scenario. Because you have so many AI civilizations, all pretty much in contact with another, in the past games by turn 20 all Advancements have been researched. The last game, as a result, the AI civilization China was in the lead, and it cannot even produce colonists to expand. They do have a lot of valuable luxuries though, and once the Mill advance is researched and spread around, getting a lot of victory points fast is easy for China. I may make some other changes as well to the scenario.

 

[Theov]

I would argue that when editing a biq to make techs untradeable, you also have the position to buff exp in other ways. Like half-price granaries, cheaper settlers (for example like in Rhye's of Civilisation, where settlers become more expensive with each age but less so for expansive civs).

I made the scout ignore all MP penalties, so they always walk 2 step regardless of terrain.
They also can build colonies and outposts.
Perhaps I can also allow them to be added to the population like a worker, so they are not useless after discovering the whole continent, but I'm not sure about that last one.
But making them 'real' scouts that move anywhere unchallenged works a lot already,. And colonies and outposts make them at least useful afterwards.

 

[Theov]

I am going to try this out on the Age of Discovery (World Map) scenario. Because you have so many AI civilizations, all pretty much in contact with another, in the past games by turn 20 all Advancements have been researched. The last game, as a result, the AI civilization China was in the lead, and it cannot even produce colonists to expand. They do have a lot of valuable luxuries though, and once the Mill advance is researched and spread around, getting a lot of victory points fast is easy for China. I may make some other changes as well to the scenario.

I'd love to help on this scenario.
It is one scenario (Age of Discovery but played on a world map) I want to play.

 

[timerover51]

I'd love to help on this scenario.
It is one scenario (Age of Discovery but played on a world map) I want to play.

I will post a biq when I have the chance. You will need the Age of Discovery (World Map) files as well. I have modded them a bit. I say when I have the chance is that tomorrow I have cataract surgery, so I might be out of action a couple of days.

 

[Theov]

I will post a biq when I have the chance. You will need the Age of Discovery (World Map) files as well. I have modded them a bit. I say when I have the chance is that tomorrow I have cataract surgery, so I might be out of action a couple of days.

Looking fwd to it.

All the best with your surgery. Wish you a good recovery.

 

[Ozymandias]

Two comments:

1. I also find it quite annoying how the AI Civs so "unfairly" utilize Tech swapping, but I think that making more "surgical" selections of which Techs to make untradeable should be different for the overall, desired play balance for each mod (note @Civinator's comments in Post #5.)
2. I generally hold off on Map Trading until the Second Era, as the AI can go so crazy with them that you might as well play without any Fog of War at all.

Just my dos centavos.