Noob not understanding economics, happiness, warfare

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by hunterx, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. hunterx

    hunterx Chieftain

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    So I have probably knotted about 10 games under my belt, with only one getting over 220 turns...most I give up around 150.

    I just don't understand how to keep my citizens happy, while also keeping production of military at a level to match my opponents. I've mostly been playing Tiny or Small maps (either 4 or 6 civs).

    This current one I play as Arabs. Here is my city breakdown
    Mecca 9 pop; Medina 6 pop; Baghdad 2 pop; Damascus 3 pop; Najran 1 pop.

    All of them are connected to roads, I have never declared war on anyone. I have +27 happiness from 15 luxury, 2 social, 1 natural wonders, 9 difficulty level. I have 31 unhappiness from 10 # of cities, 21 population. At this time, England wiped out Greece and is in the process of wiping myself and China out. From early scouting, England has over 12 cities with an average pop of about 7 or 8. Not to mention they have about 15-20 military units.

    How in the world do they do this?? If I pump out another military unit my gold flow will be negative.

    Are there ratios in the game that I should be following? Military unit per city, per pop? Cities per total pop?

    I am so frustrated :(
     
  2. Snapp

    Snapp Chieftain

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    Without going into much detail you could try:

    Make more cities early, if you aren't attacking, and you aren't going cultural victory, try to get as many cities as your happiness can handle.

    Make some of these gold focus, only make trading posts around them. Gold should be NP then.

    Note: This is not Civ IV, cities do not cost gold, a new city actually gives you gold.

    To handle happiness, take as many luxuries as you can and improve them, then build coliseums in all cities.
     
  3. Scarpa

    Scarpa Prince

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    Just one colosseum would put you at even happiness and would only cost you 3GPT. As for cash flow issues, markets are 'free' and helpful. Trading posts are good too. I always settle on rivers to get that extra cash.
     
  4. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    keep dropping difficutly level down until you can handle the game. you get a very large happiness boost at easier levels, try that out first to figure out the mechanics of it then ramp it up one level at a time.
     
  5. guenzak

    guenzak Warlord

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    I very much agree with the above. And...

    Economics...Trading post, trading post, trading post. If a tile doesn't specifically lend itself to a specific improvement then build a trading post

    Happiness - Trade excess luxury resources for ones you don't have. For example, you get a bonus to happiness for wine but if you have a 2nd wine resource you get no added benefit. Trade it to another civ for a luxury resource you don't have.

    warfare-Often you military doesn;t have to be at a level to "match" your opponent's. You can most often have fewer units but you can have a better military position if you are smarter about which unit you make and how you use them. You don't necessarily have to have the same amount or more.
     
  6. Preston85

    Preston85 Chieftain

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    After having the game 4 days and in my second proper game (Normal Difficulty) i'm finding specialization of cities is even more important in Civ 5 than before, you don't have the time or gold to build everything in every city and many of the buildings, improvements and techs have changed so make sure you read there descriptions.

    In my current game (Romans) I only had 3 cities before going to war with Ballistas and Legions and killed both AI's on my island. I teched for Colosesum and Theatre to help with happyness of keeping there cities as puppets (razed 1, kept 4). So I had control of the island with 7 cities, since then i've settled 3 more and instantly built happyness buildings in them (Purchased).

    A few points to try in next game:
    1. City radius can be really large so spread your cities out, look for luxuries you do not have already or for horse/iron if you need them. Prioritise the techs to hook them up.
    2. You really only need 1 production city until later in the game. Granery, Barrack, Stables, Armoury etc, Monument and Happyness if you have a break in unit production. Just do Farms and Mines.
    3. Commerce cities should just be Farms and Trading Posts (needs a few production to build things, so maybe a mine or two). Build Monument, Granery, Water Mill, Market etc.
    4. Don't really need lots of science buildings, Library needs large population to be worth it and unless you have low number of cities and pleanty of happyness the returns are limited.
    5. Commerce is really important, you can't whip to finish things but you can buy things from the start (and put some turns of production into them does not lower it so just buy it straight away and don't waste production turns). I buy units and happyness buildings the most as they are the "NEED ASAP!!!" stuff in my games.
    6. You don't have to completely fill the map with your borders so don't Rex like mad or settle a new city just for a bit of fish and deer in the tundra, its pointless.


    Read some of the Walkthroughs or watch "Lets Play" games on Youtube, really helped me pickup the changes from Civ 4.
     
  7. hunterx

    hunterx Chieftain

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    Thanks for all the thorough replies. I think my mistake is that although I might have a lot of workers, I usually automate their jobs instead of building specific things (posts, farms, mines). I guess I need to micro that better.

    If I get short on gold, I can build a few more trading posts at the expense of maybe a farm or two...

    If I get short on happiness, I can trade for luxory resources or buy happiness buildings (usually I can't buy anything b/c money shortage)

    How about conquering those city-states...I usually annex (right word?) them but it makes my civ really unhappy. I can throw in a courthouse but that's extremely costly. Should I just puppet them?

    I am completely raw to this game, never played another Civ game except on the iPhone (Civ Revolution) but that didn't last long b/c I bought this :)
     
  8. guenzak

    guenzak Warlord

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    Puppueting is the way to go unless you have a specific reason to annex the city. Granted, you don't have control over hwat the conquered/puppeted city builds but you get all the gold they produce, happiness bonuses from resources, and no negative happiness from being a conquered city.


    Whoops...edit...I mean less negative happiness not no negative happiness
     
  9. renkenbd

    renkenbd Chieftain

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    Conquering City-States is a bad idea in my opinion as they offer much more advantage as your ally.

    Also, I gave up on the automated workers after my second game. It seems that especially in this iteration of the CIV franchise, managing each worker manually is the way to go. Don't build too many or you'll go crazy <grin>.
     
  10. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    -Never automate workers until you really know what to do.
    -1 worker per city is a good general rule.
    -Policies : Fast settler grow or fast army set-up? Choose between and stick it until you reach a certain goal.
    -Need happiness? Build colisseums and circus where you can.
    -You are outresearched? Make research agrements, build libraries-universities, work science specialists. Very powerful. You can have free techs with them.
    -Explore, park units in strategic views to counter barbs, learn forces and weakness of each type of units.
    -And many more tips from this forum.

    And the most important....play,play,play,play,play,..........and play this game again.
    Someday you will wake up and you will remember when you were a noob.:)
     
  11. ClarenceSeedorf

    ClarenceSeedorf Chieftain

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    Start library building as early in the game as possible. I prefer buying mine when Writing is just completed. Also put at least 1 specialist in it.

    If you outtech your rivals at an early stage, you will need fewer military units to conquer (or to defend) and this is better for your goldflow and production in cities. (Which can then focus on useful buildings or wonders).

    I prefer trading or conquering resources for happiness instead of building collosseums, but with large empires happiness buildings will be necessary so eventually it doesnt really matter. But in the beginning of a game it can mean the difference between a positive and negative GPT.

    On higher difficulty levels...dont be too passive, AI will eventually attack with a big army and if you have been focusing too much on buildings and wonder production you will be conquered.

    It's about getting a head start and trying to hold it throughout. In my view getting this head start lies in establishing an as high as possible science production in the beginning of the game.
     
  12. dubrown

    dubrown Prince

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    There's certainly different strategies you can use and some strategies like "ICS" is described in lenght in other threads on this forum so I'll not go into it here, Ill stick to a few comments about earlier suggestions.

    - Workers, 1 per city is to overdo it in CiV, the upkeep cost alone costs to much. But in the early game, it's good to have many workers to quickly build up the cities, but as soon as you have workers you don't need, delete the extras, you can always build/buy a new one if you need more later on. And never automate a worker, micro them yourself is always the better option.

    - Cities, although cities in CiV can have a huge radius of 3 hexes they can work, it's often better to have your cities closer together. Spamming cities and keeping them at a low population is with the current ruleset one of the best strategical options. How to do it correctly, read some of the "ICS" strategy threads around. Although if you aim for a cultural victory, very few cities is the best option.

    - Puppeting cities instead of annexing right away is often the best solution. Make sure the puppet city has some production, enough food not to starve but also not enough to grow and then fill the land around it with trade posts and you'll have gold enough. Puppets alone can contribute quite alot to your total economy so you can focus on other things in your core cities. More often than not you can play a pretty successfull game on higher difficulties with only a few core cities you control and then puppet the rest. Of course annexing can have a purpose in some cases but more often it's better to puppet or raze the city and build a new one of your own.

    - Happiness - Unless you really want the golden ages that builds up from excess happiness (which can be great sometimes) you can get away with a low happiness, just keep it above -10. How to get happiness? Connect as many luxury resources as you can, Trade for luxury resources you don't have with the AI as often as you can, get collosseums in all your cities (if the tech is available and your empire need happiness, puppets usually focuses on happiness buildings), Ally with city states that provides resources you don't have
     
  13. wurstburst

    wurstburst Prince

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    Another suggestion is to go to war more, early on. Puppet whatever you capture. This has the dual benefit of helping your empire and hurting your opponent. Those puppeted cities will prioritize building happiness buildings when necessary, freeing up your core cities to build the stuff you need (units, research buildings, money buildings, etc.). Don't build any happiness buildings in your core cities, if possible. If you really get in a pinch and need to stay above -10, rush buy something. Never worry about being above 0 in happiness. Anything above -10 is usually enough. In my games, I typically bounce around between -9 and +9 happiness. As I get extra happiness from luxuries or new buildings, I usually go to war to get some more puppets to suck up the happiness.

    Don't conquers CS. All the CS will go into permanent war with you and you won't be able to get their benefits. Ally a few maritime CS if you can.
     
  14. scytheavatar

    scytheavatar Chieftain

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    As for roads, do not forget that it costs money to maintain them. Do not bother building them if your cities are more than 5 tiles apart.
     
  15. hunterx

    hunterx Chieftain

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    I took down Rome last night and made it a puppy. It really makes a difference!

    As for City-States...how do you go about making (and keeping them) an ally? I'll go kill some Barbarian camp and become friendly, then the next turn they hate me again.

    If I am next to 2 CS, and one asks for help to defeat the other...do I bite and do it or should I just ignore it?

    Diplomacy is complicated. Glad i'm just a peon in life!
     
  16. LordTC

    LordTC Warlord

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    There is serious merit to a strategy of annex, build settlers, then raze and replace, this is largely becauase the courthouse is extremely expensive, and the happiness penalty for occupied settlements is severe.
     
  17. dublos

    dublos Chieftain

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    I never go to war against a city state. When one city state whines about another and wants me to teach them a lesson I ignore that request. If you battle too many city states (even at another city state's request) ALL the city states will declare on you and that's always ugly.

    you keep a city state your friend by paying them.

    I usually just keep an eye on them from the diplomacy button and refill the bar when the ally bar is half way down.

    I'll do the quests at any point in the game, but I won't work to keep them an ally till I have about 1000 coins to dump on them at once.
     
  18. guenzak

    guenzak Warlord

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    It is almost never worth it to go to war with a CS even if another requests that they be eliminated. That is one request you should just ignore but all the others will gain you favor with them.

    The best/easiest way to keep them a friend or ally is to gift them gold. Ally give you increased benefits with the CS so that is something to shoot for if possible. It costs more gold to get to ally status but the same amount to maintain it once you are there as it does to maintain a friendship. So get there if possible.
     
  19. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

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    If you go the route of allying with the CS (which is far more better than fighting them). Do one at a time each time you get 1000 coin. If you do this, you can get at least 10 before you have to spend money again on one. Each one will give at least one luxury and that will help both in happiness and gold. You will be surprised that as you grow, you will automatically do things that they want and sometimes you never have to spend any coin on them again. If you give them the minumum gold, it seems to waste more time trying to catch up again. Don't just ally with Maritime, the Military one will provide units and the Cultural ones will give you culture points.
     
  20. wapamingo

    wapamingo Prince

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    all very good advice from everyone.

    One thing I found with civ5 is that it's very unforgiving.
     

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