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Noob questions - how to win on Regent?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Praesidian, Dec 5, 2004.

  1. Praesidian

    Praesidian Chieftain

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    Just graduated up to Regent, but I'm having some trouble winning. Hopefully someone can identify my strategic errors.

    My first game I started on random everything, and I came out as the Babs in a decent area. Within founding my first 4 cities, I came into contact with the persians. Normally, I am more of a builder. I like to space my cities out very generously, and RARELY make war. However, I figured I'll have to change some time, so I put my cities in intermediate spacing (not quite ICS, but i have a few that are 2 tiles away, most being 3-4 from the next city), and I immediately went for iron working instead of republic as I usually do. After aquiring a fair army of swords and horsemen, I attacking the persians to the south of me. I took most of their cities, and sued for peace a bunch of times, taking 4-5 techs and gold, and then attacking the next turn. I realized it would hurt my rep, but I really didnt care at this point since it was obvious I was WAY behind in the tech game. It turns out the map was 1 LAAAAARGE continent, which me, aztecs, persians, and the americans were on, and 2 other islands where the iroquois and english were, and where the aztec captial was. I finished off the persians and took all their techs, putting me in a large tech lead which I held the whole game, having tank tech far before anyone else, and having my size 25+ cities building crazy wonders. After refining I realized I had no oil (a first, since I had every other resource in my territory, including aluminum and uranium later in the game), so I build up a good army of infantry and tanks and stormed an aztec city directly to my south, taking the very oil supply I had traded them for to make the tank army that took it (oh the irony!). Many long and bloody turns later I had take out the aztec presence on the main continent, and had made a good peace with the americans who inhabited the other part (but were getting their butts kicked by aztec, iroquois, and english attacks). Thus began my next war against the iroqois and english island (pretty small actually, but very well defended). Long story short, even with tons of Modern Armor, my landings failed, and UN was build before I could finish them off, with Hiawatha being elected. I attacked their island MANY times, but every time I couldnt sustain the attack and keep armor pouring in because all my cities would go into irreversible disorder. Even with govs moderating the happiness and my lux meter jacked, I couldnt wage war for more than 5 turns, if that. I even waited a good 40 turns before going into battle again, trying to erase any previous war weariness. What was the problem?

    My next attempts all failed for the same reason: no techs, and no resources. Even with CRAZY ICS spacing, great land and more cities, I still got SOUNDLY beaten in techs, missed all the wonders I was building (even after cascading), and had little to no army. My cities on the boarders even with every cultural improvement I could put into them were deposing. I tried another time trying to use the same stratagy as my first game (war and sue for techs to stay even), but the early war I waged against the zulu put me so far behind everyone else that even with my dominance in cities, I was still 10+ techs back. Couple that with the lack of coal when I reached the industrial age after pouring 2k into buying techs, I was still losing ground due to a strong Indian culture right next to me.

    Help me! Its hard for me to describe exactly what went wrong, and even harder for you all to indentify it, but hopefully I have made some sense, or enough that you can point me in the direction of some good information. Anyone have any new-to-regent tips?
     
  2. Rosschild

    Rosschild Chieftain

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    Hey Praesidian,

    I'm fairly new to Regent too, so I don't know that I'll be much help. I'm more of a builder too and I'm generally pretty bad at conducting wars. However, just a thought regarding all of your failed Armor landings: are you just using Armor? I haven't tested it extensively myself, but from reading other posts, it seems the thing to do may be to start using artillary and/or radar artillary before an attack on a city. Use them to redline the defenders then attack with full strength Modern Armor. There also seems to be mixed feelings regarding the usefulness of naval bombardment of costal cities, but maybe using bombers (stealth or otherwise) would also help. Again, I haven't tried these techniques myself, but I gather they may work from reading other posts.

    One other thing that may help you: I got the impression that you build a fair number of Wonders. I used to as well, but again, by reading many of the threads on this site, I figured out that this isn't necessarily a good thing. Wonders are expensive to build and I've found that I can put those shields to much better use. Ision's 4 Rules of Wonder Addiction (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=71238) helped me out a bit.

    Well, that's my $0.02 and hopefully, one of the (much) better players than myself will chime in with a more useful response soon.

    Oh, and welcome to CFC! (I'd put in some neat graphical smilies here, but I don't know how. Told you I'm new here myself. Again, I'll hope one of the more experienced players can pick up the slack here ;) ).
     
  3. Tomoyo

    Tomoyo Fate

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    :nono: When you're behind, your rep becomes more important.
    Try using a more WW-tolerant gov't, like Repblic or Monarchy.
    You don't need ICS.
    Do you have enough roads/marketplaces?
    Get off of your wonders.
    Umm... no comment.
    So you are a perfectionist. Don't put your cities in positions where they share tiles with an AI city unless you know that your city can get ahead in the culture race.

    60% or the time, the problem with commerce is not building enough roads. 30% of the time, it is because you build too many city improvements, which also explains your military problem. I could give you a lecture on combined arms and poor man's war, but I'm too lazy and scoutsout is more of an expert than me.
     
  4. Praesidian

    Praesidian Chieftain

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    Ross - Thanks, good tips. I actually dont build wonders that often, I just TRIED for them a couple times, I never actually got ANY on my early fails.

    Tomoyo - Thanks to you as well, good tips, though I dont think I explained myself clearly enough:

    I wasnt behind in this game, so I didnt need a rep. In my other two games I had GREAT reps, and I still got screwed when trading.

    I was republic the whole game... despotism directly to republic with no change. Should I have gone to monarchy?

    Why not? I feel like it gave me a good bit of extra commerce, and more population. Like I said though, I wasnt at quite ICS... i had 2 or 3 tiles in between each city on all 3 games.

    If its one thing i pride myself on, its having fully improved terrain. I had roads on every square, and libraries/marketplaces in every city.

    Like I said, I used to build a lot of wonders, but in my regent games I havent at all. My most successful game (the Babs game), I build NO wonders until I had such a huge lead on techs I could afford to. In all my other games, I didnt even try for any wonders, with one exception (great library, but only because I had literacy many turns before anyone else, and London wasnt a good settler factory... I missed it by the way).

    Thats not the problem - my cities were placed and then the AI built cities on my boarders, or we founded cities around the same time... or the boarders just extended to meet each other.

    On a side note, in all 3 games I've seemed to had a problem with production. After switching to republic, I irrigated everything, no mines except on hills. Obviously I'd lose production doing this, but I feel like this strategy in my bab game where all my cities were 20+ and generating HUGE science and gold, helped me get as far as I did, regardless of a slower production rate (I still pumped out modern armor in 2-3 turns though). What do the better players do, mine and irrigate 50/50?
     
  5. Tomoyo

    Tomoyo Fate

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    I, as well as most high-level players, maximise production if I am playing a builder's game. It is hard to tell exactly what you are doing wrong though.
     
  6. Praesidian

    Praesidian Chieftain

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    Here's a screenshot from my most recent game as the english. I have FAR more cities than the Indians and French (only two civs I know at this point), but they are so much farther into techs than I am that its not even funny. If that damn staltpeter had fallen into my area I could have cav rushed the Indians, but just my luck...

    There are 3-4 more cities off to the left and a couple above and below the screenshot, but this is my heartland.
     

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  7. Tomoyo

    Tomoyo Fate

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    :dubious: Oh me my! That is irrigated.

    1) Not so much irrigation. I know it boost your population, and therefore, your income, but it will be very hard to produce stuff or change it back to mines when your cities top off. Also, size 12 cities like Richmond shuld be mined, not irrigated.
    2) Colloseums? I normally don't build them except in dire situations. You would be much better off spending the shields on military.
    3) I'm sure if I see it right, but my "fog"-gazing shows me that the tile N-NE-NE of London is not able to be worked by any city.
    4) Suicide Galleys. You need to contact the other civs. Now. Actually, preferably sooner, but as soon as you can.
    5) Do you have libraries? If not, you should turn off research and buy techs.
    6) Are you trading? Tech trading is important to keep up, and lux trading can help some of the overpopulated cities that you will inevitably have.
     
  8. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    Look at the world map.Too much darkness.
    You need to scout much more.
     
  9. Tomoyo

    Tomoyo Fate

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    Oh, and by the way, can you give us a zoomed out screenie? I want to dot map it and sow you how I would have put the cities.
     
  10. Praesidian

    Praesidian Chieftain

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    What should I be building then... pikes?

    There's another city there, its being used :).

    Interesting... yes I do have libraries, but even so I am FAR behind.

    I trade in the sense that I try to stay within sight of the other guys by buying techs, but with the exception of early on I did not trade my own techs very much.
     
  11. Praesidian

    Praesidian Chieftain

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    How do I zoom out?
     
  12. Rosschild

    Rosschild Chieftain

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    Tomoyo is right and I'd like to add to point (6). If you don't have many luxuries hooked up and aren't trading for them, this may have been a contributing factor to the WW you mentioned in your first post.

    And yes, as others have mentioned, you need to get out and explore. Just curious, what version of the game are you playing?
     
  13. Praesidian

    Praesidian Chieftain

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    regular Civ III, 1.29f
     
  14. Rosschild

    Rosschild Chieftain

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    I believe the 'z' key zooms out.
     
  15. Praesidian

    Praesidian Chieftain

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    Here ya go.

    Btw - I was building the coloseums to try to get Punjab by culture - Its near my homeland and those cities around it are good cultural centers, IMO. With saltpeter I could obliterate the Indians... they're tiny!
     

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  16. Flintlock

    Flintlock King

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    If you're getting chemistry, or any tech for that matter, in one turn, you can proabably turn the science slider down a few spaces, and still get the tech in one turn.

    Someone here asked about the smiles, which I don't think has been answered yet :hmm:, below the quick reply window, there's a "posting rules" box, click the word smiles there to open a list of them all.
     
  17. Tomoyo

    Tomoyo Fate

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    I like to use mounted attack units as a mobile defense force, with small garrisons of defensive units on the borders. In your case, you should build knights.
    When you're behind, a) you need to get more contacts, and b) you should turn off research anyway and build markets and banks.
    You probably should have traded those too, though.

    I still think that the main problem is that you don't have the contacts needed.

    (BTW, do you have a Forbidden Palace?)
     
  18. Praesidian

    Praesidian Chieftain

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    Yeah I normally do that.

    Hmm... interesting...

    Nope.
     
  19. Tomoyo

    Tomoyo Fate

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    Firstly, build a FP. York looks like a good spot.

    Just for kicks, here's where I would have put my cities, at a glance. It was kinda hard without a grid though.

     
  20. Rosschild

    Rosschild Chieftain

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    While Tomoyo is busy coming up with a dot map, I'll give you my take on tech trading, as it's something I'm getting better at and doing so is improving my game. Early on, explore and meet as many civs as you possibly can. This includes sending suicide galleys out into the ocean in the hopes that they'll get to the other side before sinking. Also, every few turns (or every turn if I've just learned a tech myself) check with all the AIs you know and see if they have anything new. If they do, I generally do whatever it takes (within reason) to buy it from them. Usually it involves trading another tech or two.

    So how do you get those techs to trade? What I do is research deep into the tech tree, while the AI tends to research broadly (get all the first tier techs then move on to the second tier). Trade your third tier techs that you researched deeply for one or two first and second tier techs. It also helps to research the techs the AI tends to avoid (I've noticed it stays away from Literature in the AA).

    Finally, before I start trading, I check with everyone I know to see who knows what. I'll buy a tech from one AI and sell it to another (either in exchange for more tech or for gold). Basically, I try to become somewhat of a tech broker. Bonus points if one of your suicide galleys makes it to another continent. The AIs on your own continent will not attempt the journey if there's a chance their galleys will sink, so by having the only contact between the continents, you get to be a tech broker for the world. This is a very nice position to be in. :)
     

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