North Africa and Spain

[AtlantaMarty]

I really love this mod, but I had one question: Why are North Africa and Spain not included on the map when they were very important to Islam from 711-1492? Would it be possible to add them?

PS: I really love the way you added Semidesert, Salt Flats and Titles. They are really cool!!!

 

[DC123456789]

I think the main reason is that the map would be huge, slow, and the game would probably be considerably less polished at this point. But I think mainly because it would probably crash a lot of computers.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

I think the main reason is that the map would be huge, slow, and the game would probably be considerably less polished at this point. But I think mainly because it would probably crash a lot of computers.

Thanks for responding. How would it be less polished? And how would it crash computers (as opposed to just making them slower)? And why were India and Persia chosen instead of North Africa and Spain?

 

[DC123456789]

First of all, I'm not speaking for Embryodead, but including North Africa and Spain would double the size of the map, if you do it correctly. That in itself would seriously slow the game, and it would probably become unplayable for those with slower computers. Not to mention that it would also take much longer to fully polish everything. As for your third question, Persia and India had more interaction with Mesopotamia, the Levant, etc. Also, this is the RFC modmod for the medieval Middle East, and Persia is considered part of the Middle East, whereas North Africa and Spain are not.

 

[embryodead]

Why are North Africa and Spain not included on the map when they were very important to Islam from 711-1492?

The mod isn't about Islam, it's about the medieval history of the Middle East, an idea inspired by TW mod Broken Crescent.

After the fall of Umayyad Caliphate, Cordova and Berber dynasties of North Africa are more significant in the history of Europe than Middle East. Likewise, North Africa and Spain are covered in RFCE.

And why were India and Persia chosen instead of North Africa and Spain?

Because if I did it the other way round I'd have the same map as RFCE, just with Northern Europe cut off

 

[DC123456789]

TBecause if I did it the other way round I'd have the same map as RFCE, just with Northern Europe cut off

Not to mention an obscene amount of desert (literally the entire Sahara).

 

[AtlantaMarty]

The mod isn't about Islam, it's about the medieval history of the Middle East, an idea inspired by TW mod Broken Crescent.

After the fall of Umayyad Caliphate, Cordova and Berber dynasties of North Africa are more significant in the history of Europe than Middle East. Likewise, North Africa and Spain are covered in RFCE.



Because if I did it the other way round I'd have the same map as RFCE, just with Northern Europe cut off

Thank you for your response.

Would it be possible for someone to make a modmodmod including north africa and spain, and maybe extend the map a little farther (5-10 tiles) in the other directions as well?

 

[DC123456789]

Well, there's technically no reason why you can't...

I imagine that since the modmod is practically in a finished state it wouldn't be really hard, besides editing every single map and balancing the civs presently at the border, provided you already know a thing or two about RFC modding.

 

[Theodorick]

There was an attempt at making a modmod which would include Greece, North Africa, Southern Italy, and Spain, but I am pretty sure the guy abandoned it.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

@Theodorick, thanks for your reply, do you have a link to the thread for the modmodmod?

And If I was to add North Africa, Spain, Greece, Southern Italy, and extend the map 10 tiles in the other three directions (North, South, East) does anybody have any ideas for what civs I should add, as well as religions, and provinces, and titles, and techs.

Here is my idea for map expansion

 

[merijn_v1]

That map is basically the RFC Classical world map, but without the far eastern part (Indonesia, China and Japan). And this map is a little more south. (More Sahara desert, less tiles in the north)

 

[SanJose]

Adding Spain and Maghreb with 10 tiles in the other three directions (North, South, East) = domino effect for many options (for example: territorial quest of UHV [Fatimids, Ottomans, ByzEmpire], total rebuild for Crusaders, Trade Companies).
Map expansion without Venice and Genoa bad.
P.S. Of course, I will help with playtesting and ideas

 

[teriaky]

I believe adding them to this mod would not be a good idea. Except for the Fatimid conquest, the Maghreb and the Middle East had little military interactions. Sometime, Egypt controlled Cyrenaica. Most of the times, it was the states in the Maghreb who controlled it. Maghrebian states and Egyptian states respected each other and used nature as their frontier. For exemple, at one time, North Africa had only 2 states: the Ayyubid Sultanate and the Almohad Empire. There respective rulers, Saladin and Yaqub al-Mansur, were good friends.
I believe the Western Med deserves it's own modmod. Medieval Italy, Iberia and Maghreb (and southern France) could make a very interesting scenario, and the map would be large enough to accurately describe what was happening there (notably an accurate/plausible evolution of the Reconquista). It could start in 756, when Abd-ar-Rahman I declared the independence of Al-Andalus from the Abbasid Caliphate. When it comes to civs, I could picture:
Iberia (5-11)
- Emirate/Caliphate of Cordoba
-Kingdom of Asturias/Leon
-Kingdom of Castille (Could be merged with Asturias/Leon)
-Kingdom of Aragon
-Kingdom of Portugal
-Kingdom of Navarra?
-Taĩfa of Seville and/or Badajoz and/or Zaragoza and/or Toledo(unplayable)?
-Kingdom of Granada
Maghreb (7-8)
-Aghlabid emirate
-Fatimid Caliphate/Zirid Dynasty
-Hammadid dynasty?
-Almoravid Empire
-Almohad Caliphate
-Marinid Dynasty
-Kingdom of Tlemcen
-Hafsid Caliphate
Italy (9-10)
-Papal State
-Duchy of Milan
-Republic of Pisa
-Republic of Venice
-Byzantine Empire (unplayable)
-Emirate of Sicily
-Norman Italy (Kingdom of the two-Sicilies)
-Republic/Duchy of Florence
-Republic of Genoa
-Duchy of Savoy?

And finally, everyone's favorite big blue blob: France.

 

[SanJose]

teriaky, no Ghana(Wagadu)Empire, Mansa Musa, Songhai Empire and Trans-Saharan trade?

 

[teriaky]

I love west African empires, but I don't think they would have a place in a modmod based on my suggestion. A map including West Africa would mean that half of the map would be covered by the Sahara desert. Plus, West African empires kinda had a monopoly on there region. A game as them would be boring. However, trans-Saharan trade should/would definitely be represented (probably like a corporation).

 

[AtlantaMarty]

Change of plans:
I just want to extend the map a little west to add greece, the balkans, and some of lybia.
Here's my idea for the provinces in greece and north africa

 

[DC123456789]

That makes quite a bit more sense, and actually isn't a bad idea. Byzantines will need quite a nerf military-wise (but boost economic-wise) with all those extra cities.

Epirus should include include all of present day Albania though, and Bulgaria should be a lot bigger (all of present-day Bulgaria). Balkans should be renamed Serbia, and don't forget about the Aegean islands.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

That makes quite a bit more sense, and actually isn't a bad idea. Byzantines will need quite a nerf military-wise (but boost economic-wise) with all those extra cities.

Thanks for your feedback. I don't think they need a military nerf, they already start with only one unit per city, except Constantinople (2 units, a ship). I agree with an economic boost.

Epirus should include include all of present day Albania though, and Bulgaria should be a lot bigger (all of present-day Bulgaria). Balkans should be renamed Serbia, and don't forget about the Aegean islands.

I am not planning on expanding the map north any, that's why eprius and bulgaria are small, I just forgot to crop the picture. The Agean Islands will be one province, I just couldn't figure out how to label them on the map. You're right about serbia.

Also, everything in africa added to the map except for libya will become part of sahara province.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

For the Cities that will be added to the Byzantines, I think Athens, Salonica, Mystras, Patras, Larissa, Kavala (Christopolis), and Philipopolis/Plovdiv should be added in Greece/Bulgaria. What do you think of this?

I was thinking of adding Halicarnassus and Samsounta to Anatolia, is this a good idea?

For Libya, I was thinking that Benghazi and Tobruk would be settleable. What do you think of this?

 

[SanJose]

No cities on Crete?