Norway: Honorary Communist/Socialist state, with tons of Millionaires!

[Cheetah]

http://www.dn.no/privatokonomi/article2167706.ece

The World Wealth Report - by Capgemini and Merril Lynch - is a yearly survey of the worlds richest people.

And lo an behold: Norway is the country with the highest ratio of dollar millionaires! The country with all the taxes, 25% VAT, an actual socialistic government for most the last decade, with all the government programs and all the fees - and a little oil I suppose.

A dollar millionaire is defined here as someone who has 1 million USD in cash or "investable money". I.e. the value of houses and cars and such are not factored into it.

In total, 85,300 Norwegians have an "investable" wealth of more than 1 million USD. Or 17 for each 1000 Norwegians.

In comparison the USA has 10 per 1000 citisens, Japan has 14, Germany 11 and Denmark 8.

Still, in sheer numbers, the USA is still leading, with 3.1 million people being dollar millionaires. Up by 230,000 since 2009.

The number of dollar millionaires in China increased with 12%, up to 534,500 people.

Globally the number of dollar millionaires grew with 8.3% to 10.9 million people by the end of 2010.

In total, those 10.9 million people are worth about 42,700 billion dollars, or 40% of the total wealth in the world.

 

[emzie]

NORWAY #1

though I am curious how someone builds that wealth despite high taxes. Mostly oil money?

 

[Racsoviale]

Congratulations brothers in the north

 

[BuckeyeJim]

I'd be interested to see what the results would be if you accounted for assets.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

How is Norway an "Honorary Communist/Socialist State"?

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

I would rather be the poorest rich guy then richest poor guy.

 

[Cheetah]

How is Norway an "Honorary Communist/Socialist State"?

It was more a tongue-in-cheek. We're far more socialist than, say, the USA, and we all know how diffuse - or even non-existing - the line between being 'more socialistic than the Republican Party' and being a totalitarian Communist hellhole is.

Also, a Swedish minister of industry remarked during the 90's that Norway was the last Soviet state left.

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I simply find it interesting that we are still able to have so many rich people here, despite the high taxes, not enough backing of talent and entrepreneurs, and all the other things one can complain is wrong in Norway...

Also, that 10 million people have 40% of the worlds wealth is something else that is quite interesting - if already well known.

 

[sumit1207]

The winners of capitalism redistributing wealth amongst themselves. "Honorary socialist" hahaha

 

[Holycannoli]

1 million USD in cash or "investable money"? Does that mean they have a million dollars sitting in a bank or something just waiting to be turned into assets?

I want to know why they didn't include millionaires with assets instead of just cash, and how many of those millionaires with cash also have comparable assets (vs just having wads of cash but no comparable assets).

Most millionaires don't just have wads of cash laying around doing essentially nothing.

 

[Cheetah]

1 million USD in cash or "investable money"? Does that mean they have a million dollars sitting in a bank or something just waiting to be turned into assets?

I want to know why they didn't include millionaires with assets instead of just cash, and how many of those millionaires with cash also have comparable assets (vs just having wads of cash but no comparable assets).

Most millionaires don't just have wads of cash laying around doing essentially nothing.

Sorry if I was unclear. The point is that the "traditional" measurement of net worth - i.e. total value of all property minus all debt - is not as useful a measurement in many settings as it should be. Using such a measurement means that more or less every homeowner in Norway and many other countries is a millionaire.

The term dollar millionaire is to specify that we're talking about someone with net investable assets, or working capital of 1 million USD. From Wikipedia:

Net worth vs. financial assets
Recently, there has been some controversy over how to correctly determine a person's status as a millionaire. One of the two most commonly used measurements is net worth, which counts the total value of all property owned by a household minus the household's debts. According to this definition, a household owning an $800k home, $50k of furnishings, two cars worth $60k, a $60k retirement savings account, $45k in mutual funds, and a $325k vacation home with a $250k mortgage, $40k in car loans, and $25k in credit card debt would be worth $1,085,000 (approx.) and every individual in this household would thus be a millionaire. However, according to the net financial assets measurement used for some specific applications (such as evaluating an investor's expected tolerance for risk for stockbroker ethics), equity in one's principal residence is excluded, as are lifestyle assets, such as the car and furniture. Therefore the above example household would only have net financial assets of $80,000. Another term used is "net investable assets" or working capital. These practitioners may use the term "millionaire" to mean somebody who is free to invest a million units of currency through them as broker. For similar reasons, those who market goods, services, and investments to high net worth individuals are careful to specify a net worth "not counting principal residence."

In the real estate bubble up to 2007, average house prices in some U.S. regions exceeded $1 million, but many homeowners owed large amounts to banks holding mortgages on their homes. For this reason there are many people in million-dollar homes whose net worth is far short of a million—-in some cases the net worth is actually negative.

 

[Holycannoli]

Sorry if I was unclear. The point is that the "traditional" measurement of net worth - i.e. total value of all property minus all debt - is not as useful a measurement in many settings as it should be. Using such a measurement means that more or less every homeowner in Norway and many other countries is a millionaire.

And that actually is true. There's an awful lot of millionaires who are only millionaires because of their assets. It's really not a good indication of actual wealth.

The term dollar millionaire is to specify that we're talking about someone with net investable assets, or working capital of 1 million USD. From Wikipedia:

My problem is not knowing if these people with 1 million USD in working capital also have considerable assets? I'm going to assume that only the really wealthy have that much working capital, and they would also have considerable assets.

I think it's also important to know how they acquired those assets and that capital. Did they work hard for it, or is it just old money? I don't consider old money passed down through generations to be a good indication of the success of a modern country's government or economy, so to me knowing that working capital's source is important.

 

[Cheetah]

Well, if by really wealthy you mean 17 out of every 1000 people in Norway, and 10 out of every 1000 people in the USA...

But I do see your point. I can tell you that there isn't much of any kind of "old money" in Norway. Norwegian lands were too poor in resources and food output for us to ever adopt some kind of feudalism. We were under Danish sovereignty for about 400 years, so whatever nobility or elites we had more or less became Danish. As a free country we've done away with any privilege of whatever little nobility we had left, and the spirit of the country is more or less that we're poor, and we should all work hard together to survive. At the end of the Second World War we were one of the poorest countries in Europe - even Ireland was richer.

Whatever money there is in Norway has more or less all been generated during the last 50 years.

 

[Holycannoli]

Well that's good.

Now I'm curious how these millionaires made their money I'm always curious how they make their money.

 

[amadeus]

That's not fair! We need a global tax to punish them... I mean, help the disadvantaged.

 

[dutchfire]

How does it take pensions into account?
Also, I guess fluctuations in exchange rates have a very large effect on this.

 

[Leonel]

What I would love to know is if it's an economically viable system and why. Are CEO's there like not raking in millions and millions of dollars to buy $10k umbrella and mansions they never set food in while their companies and workers get screwed over?

 

[amadeus]

Also, I guess fluctuations in exchange rates have a very large effect on this.

Norway also has a very high cost of living compared to the U.S.

Being a millionaire doesn't mean as much when a Big Mac costs $6.

 

[Atticus]

That's not fair! We need a global tax to punish them... I mean, help the disadvantaged.

Done! In communist Scandinavia we pay taxes voluntarily.

 

[Xanikk999]

How bad are the taxes over there for millionaires?

 

[Yeekim]

Now I'm curious how these millionaires made their money I'm always curious how they make their money.

Drilling oil. And murdering whales!