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Norwegian Viking UHV Challenge

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall: Europe' started by AbsintheRed, May 6, 2016.

  1. Swarbs

    Swarbs Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
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    863
    Isn't there an argument for moving the Norse start date back to around 780 in line for the first recorded Viking raids in 793? That would allow the Viking points goal to move back to around 980AD, then move the conquest goal and Vinland goals back to 1066, including the Isles, Ireland, Scotland, Normandy, Sicily, Apulia, Calabria and Iceland. Just make sure cities spawn in Sicily, Apulia and Calabria, so that you can just move armies round there to conquer, rather than having to ship a settler all the way.

    As an aside, maybe look to rearrange the Calabria and Apulia provinces so Apulia isn't so much larger - I would say possibly have Calabria cover the west coast and Apulia the east, so you can actually spawn a viable city in each province? It would also allow for a city on the east and west coast of Southern Italy which would show the historic Byzantine and western influences on the region. The map below shows that Apulia doesn't spread to the area of Naples at all:

    Spoiler :


    Maybe even remove Scotland and replace it with Northumbria, as the Vikings never actually controlled much of the Scottish mainland outside Caithness?

    That would be more Viking esque imo, as the majority of their expansion, conquest and settlement occurred prior to the end of the 11th century. And as has been pointed out above, achieving the current 2nd UHV is very possible by 1066, even with the need to conquer Scotland.

    It would also allow for a Viking conquest of Sicily, followed by the spawn of the Duchy of Sicily at its historic start date of 1071AD.

    I thought the 1263 date represented the end of the Viking age, with the Vikings losing the last main battle they fought in Europe (Largs in Ayrshire). But that seems too late to me - have it earlier so you have have the first half of the Viking game be purely conquest and expansion, and then the rest of the game be geared towards the score based UHV.
     
  2. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Szeged, Hungary
    While the Normans and Sicily surely can be made more fun, for now I will stick to the changes I wrote yesterday.
    Actually I'm uploading them right now along with everything else.

    Let's revisit the topic if I decide to actually add more civs.
    Sicily is quite high on my list, so if there will be some more, it will most likely be one of them :)
     
  3. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Well, they never really controlled much of Ireland either, just a few cities on the coast. However, they were a significant influence on Ireland, just as they were with Scotland.
     
  4. Swarbs

    Swarbs Chieftain

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    Sounds like a good way to go for now - I think we would need to revisit it if Sicily is added later, as it would be bizarre if one of the Norse UHVs required you to kill the Norman kingdom of Sicily! :)

    I think they were a larger influence on Ireland - Dublin, Limerick, Cork, Wexford and Waterford were all Viking settlements, whereas they didn't found any real settlement of note on the Scottish mainland. But the main argument is purely from a gameplay point of view - the UHV to control Ireland can be achieved by conquering a few cities on the coast, whilst a UHV to control Scotland would require the elimination of the Kingdom of Alba, which was not something the Norse ever came close to achieving.
     
  5. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    I don't really want to readd Northumbria, as it changes to unstable on the English spawn, which isn't ideal for the UHV.
    On the other hand I might reconsider removing Scotland, if the Italian part of the UHV is made more difficult.
     
  6. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    The Norse ruled Caithness and Sutherland for long periods of time, had a significant level of control over most of the west coast of Scotland down to Argyll, and conquered and settled Galloway. While they never destroyed the Pictish kingdoms like they did in the Danelaw, they often enforced tribute and overlordship over them in much the same way they controlled the Irish kingdoms from their coastal cities. If Ireland can be justified for the Norwegian UHV, Scotland certainly can as well. To be honest Scotland makes more sense, to me, for the UHV than southern Italy, whose connection to Norway through the Normans is somewhat more tenuous. For gameplay I personally think it make the Norse UHV more interesting, as it provides a conquest goal against an actual civ as opposed to just settling the Isles and conquering barbarian Dublin (which is very easy), or conquering independent Sicily.
     
  7. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

    Joined:
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    Budapest, Hungary
    Ok, I tested the new uhv setup. Achieved both 1. and 2. in 1144. About 120 viking points by 1066, Scotland KIA, France MIA and England without continental possessions.

    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

    If you ask my opinion, it was hard and fun, but I still very dislike that I have to kill a whole civ to do UHV. Cut in two Scotland or make it only Northumbria or leave it out an only The Isles and Ireland. + for the new more conquest change starting stack from 2 berserk + sword to 4 berserk. IMO only.
     

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