Not being held hostage by accusations of elitism

[aelf]

I like this:

One of the most common characteristics of abusers that I noticed when I worked with people with disabilities was the attitude that the client's resistance to the abuse was itself thought of as justification for the abuse. Once that feedback loop is established, control is justified through both acquiescence and resistance, and there's nothing the client can do (behavior wise) to escape. The same holds true for abusive relationships, prisons, police, or any other kind of authoritarian regime. The broader message is "Your resistance to my behavior is the reason I behave this way in the first place."

Remember this over the next four years when you hear the trope "See this is why Trump won." If you call his appointees racist, that's why Trump won. If you boo Mike Pence, that's why Trump won. If you protest in the streets, that's why Trump won. If you insult him or his supporters, that's why Trump won. It's a rhetorical tool for neutering resistance. Always ask what function it serves.

Link

Accusations of liberal elitism fall under this umbrella. Now it's becoming impossible to criticise or raise objections to racist and nonsensical drivel without being accused of being elitist and one of those who caused the left to lose ground. And the nature of bigotry is such that it's entirely appropriate to object to it strongly, which further raises the ire of the bigots and prompts their accusations of being hysterical.

When will the more moderate left grow a spine and not be cowed by such tactics? The solution to bigotry and ignorance is not to try and coax them into listening to you by listening to them, which they will likely only use as a chance to propagate their filth. Rather, the solution is a long-term one that includes protracted struggle. Fight the bigots and the right for every inch, refuse them the honour of having their views aired without reprobation and fight for education so that the next generations will know not to be ignorant.

There is no excuse for bigotry, and the bigots need to be called out no matter what their circumstances might be. Time is not their ally, and as long as the left and SJWs keep up the fight, I'm sure that their beliefs will be left behind and forgotten in time, just like their predecessors'.

Thoughts?

 

[warpus]

Now it's becoming impossible to criticise or raise objections to racist and nonsensical drivel without being accused of being elitist

Can you show us an example of this happening?

I see criticisms of racism in the media and on the internet almost every day.

 

[trader/warrior]

bigotryˈbɪɡətri/
noun
intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.

 

[aelf]

Can you show us an example of this happening?

You know the recent incident where the cast of Hamilton addressed Mike Pence at the end of their show? This is what they said:

Vice President-elect Pence we welcome you and we truly thank you for joining us here at Hamilton, an American Musical. We really do. We sir, we are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, out children, our parents or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights, sir. But we truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and to work on behalf of all of us. All of us. We truly thank you for sharing in this show, this wonderful American story told by a diverse group of men, women of different colors, creeds and orientations and we truly hope that you heard our message sir, because you all represent all of us.

Just a simple, harmless statement. And here are some examples of responses from the right:

If I pay money to see a performance, I don't want a lecture from the performers to go with the show.

On your time, if you have something to say, fine. On my time, on my dime, STFU and perform.

This is the stupid stuff that millions of Americans are sick of, the pretentious lecturing by the elite.

How incredibly disrespectful and innapropriate. If there is one thing we have learned, it is ok for liberals to use their entertainment jobs to take political stances. We have been seeing it in the NFL, now we are seeing it on Broadway. Since the media and entertainment industries are all ran by liberals, it is ok for them to make political statements while on the JOB and to THEIR ACTUAL CONSUMERS!!!! Keep up the incredible left wing bias liberals, America is on to it. Seeing you throw hissy fits at the results of a Democratic election isnt helping you either.

Yup.

bigotryˈbɪɡətri/
noun
intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.

Right. The old canard that intolerance of intolerance is still intolerance. Precisely the kind of ammunition that racists love to use.

And maybe you haven't learned that the dictionary is not a substitute for arguments, nor does it give prescriptions for how words are used socially.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

Everyone has prejudices. My prejudices are better than yours because they're more well thought-out against people who actually victimize others.

Now it's becoming impossible to criticise or raise objections to racist and nonsensical drivel without being accused of being elitist and one of those who caused the left to lose ground. And the nature of bigotry is such that it's entirely appropriate to object to it strongly, which further raises the ire of the bigots and prompts their accusations of being hysterical.

Thoughts?

Yeh, you're the thought police.

 

[amadeus]

Okay, now just do us a solid and identify the bigots.

 

[aelf]

Yeh, you're the thought police.

Do you need a safe space?

 

[warpus]

Americans have boners for their political leaders, *shrug* I've seen this before, it's not easy to speak up against the president or VP by directly rejecting his support. Somebody somewhere will always speak up and call you all sorts of names.

 

[BvBPL]

You know the recent incident where the cast of Hamilton addressed Mike Pence at the end of their show? This is what they said:

Aren't performers on the hottest show on Broadway literally the American elite?

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

Do you need a safe space?

I can understand why Trump tweeted about safe spaces. He gets every ounce of understanding he has of the world off Twitter, and the liberal left is always screaming the loudest in places where it really will not fix any situation, so he just parrots what he reads, not realizing he belongs on Tumblr.

 

[W|M]

Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I outgrew the "your intolerance of my bigotry is just as bad" argument decades ago. Bigotry should have consequences, and I administer them cheerfully.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Can you show us an example of this happening?

Read some articles in Canadian media about Conservative leadership candidate Kellie Leitch (the one who wants to interrogate "visitors, immigrants, and refugees" to find out if they have "Canadian values"). She just LOVES Trump and thinks his "messages needs to be delivered to all Canadians."

Oh, and this MP who in her non-political life is a highly-paid surgeon, regularly rants against the "elite"... which apparently means anyone who doesn't vote Conservative or support her style of bigotry.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

You know the recent incident where the cast of Hamilton addressed Mike Pence at the end of their show? This is what they said:


Just a simple, harmless statement. And here are some examples of responses from the right:

The second quote doesn't even mention elitism at all.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The second quote doesn't even mention elitism at all.

I'd say that taken together the quotes support the general observation extremely well. The ideologues on the right do, observably, use "how dare you resist" as justification for further abuse.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I disagree. I know that "liberal elite" is a term, but that doesn't mean that "liberal" and "elite" are synonyms. So when you start a thread about accusations of elitism, are asked for an example, and then give a quote that's actually critical of liberals, then that's not what you were asked to give is it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I disagree. I know that "liberal elite" is a term, but that doesn't mean that "liberal" and "elite" are synonyms. So when you start a thread about accusations of elitism, are asked for an example, and then give a quote that's actually critical of liberals, then that's not what you were asked to give is it.

The point is that in the hands of the abusive conservative they actually are synonyms. Both are defined as "a randomly selected word that I can use as a slur without any regard to its actual definition."

 

[Bootstoots]

Clinton was perceived, quite accurately, as an elite technocrat, which is an extremely unpopular character outside the circles of technocrats themselves. Most of the country's cultural, academic, and (to a lesser extent) business elite endorsed her, which didn't help with the perception.

The message I keep repeating is that it doesn't have to be this way: all the Democrats have to do is embrace a kind of inclusive populism and contrast it with the racist/sexist/etc populism of Trump and his core supporters. There's an elitist-populist axis perpendicular to the left-right axis, and the Democrats went way to the top of the elitist part of that axis in this election. That opened the way for Trump to win over the votes of most people with a broadly populist leaning. A lot of the people who ultimately voted for him actually didn't like him, but they wanted to overthrow the technical-managerial class that occupies the top echelons of the modern Democratic Party.

Very little moderation is actually necessary - in fact, a more populist Democratic Party could go some way toward the economic left and easily get away with it. I recommend that the relative importance of class in social justice rhetoric be dialed way up, to put it on par with race/gender/sexuality/etc, and that SJWs study how to actually persuade people and use those tactics rather than the sort of internet outrage tactics that only entrench the opposition. If they fail to do that, people won't be persuaded and the current dysfunction will deepen. It's totally a matter of what tactics they choose.

 

[Arwon]

Aren't performers on the hottest show on Broadway literally the American elite?

In what sense? Especially when we're comparing to politicians and real estate tycoons? If the term encompasses all that it is meaningless.

 

[Bootstoots]

They're cultural elites or at least play to a culturally elite audience, much the same way that prominent academics can be seen as elites even if they make relatively low salaries.