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Not enough food - French struggle

Discussion in 'Strategy Section' started by CppMaster, Apr 12, 2018.

  1. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

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    I play France on Emperor difficulty, Standard speed, Standard size, Pangea Plus. It's near end of Renaissance era and I just have completed Authority and Artistry policies.

    My problem is that I do not have enough food in my cities.
    a) My capitol has 20 citizens, other cities have +- 7 less.
    b) My almost exclusively luxury resource is tobacco, which I work all tiles.
    c) I also work all Chateaus, which is about 3/4 in most cities.
    d) I have build all 3 guild in my Capitol and 1 guild in each of remaining cities and I work all Guild slots. I don't work any engineer slot and just a few merchant slots to reduce poverty slightly.
    e) In some cities I also work towns or villages.
    f) I work all scientist slots in all my cities and plant all Academies in my capitol, with priority on bonus resources and I work it all (I used to do that in Civ BNW, is that good in Vox Populi?).
    g) Therefore I don't work almost any farms (despite some having 6f or 5f1p) or mines, because of lack of free citizens. I have 3 food trade routes to my capitol.

    What would you say I do wrong?
    1) Should I prioritize scientists and academies as much? I have same tech level as AIs and I'm worried that I'll be behind AI in tech if I focus less on science. I have 8 cities and AIs have similar count. In Civ BNW I planted all academies in my capitol to have biggest boost to science. Maybe in Vox Populi I should distribute it more to other cities?
    2) Maybe I shouldn't work tobacco instead of farms? It gives me 2 food, 7 gold and 2 faith, but I guess gold is not as import as food or production and faith is not that useful to me, because I hadn't found a religion (The one I got from Inca doesn't boost food and I can't remember what it gives me besides purchasing cultural buildings with faith). Is 1 food/production worth like 3 gold? I have about +100 GPT and no units to upgrade yet.
    3) Chateaus in my opinion are good tiles to work, because they give food, production, gold and culture.
    4) It's no-brainer for me to work all guild slots, but should I build all 3 in my capitol, because of France UA? I don't want to waste any GW, GA or GM points when I wouldn't be able to capture more cities.
    5) Should I work all high yield farm tiles (6f or 5f1p) to keep my cities grow instead of early specialists?
    6) I think I should keep working on some town/villages and merchants slots to reduce unhappiness from poverty slightly, because I have about -5 happiness in my empire doing that.
    7) Should I free some tiles to work on mines and engineer slots? I have low production, my aggressive neighbor Inca has about 3 times more.
    8) My plan for the game is Cultural Victory. I have generate 60 tourism, second best is Arabia, which has 57 tourism and he also finished Artistry, so he can catch up if I won't trigger my UA. He is on the other side of continent, so I can't really do anything to him. Other civs generate like 15 less tourism.
    9) Inca is my only bordering enemy (the other civ that I border is my vassal Austria). He has the highest score, the biggest army and the most production (as I mentioned it's 3 time more production than I have). I can defend against him, thanks to my 2 citadels on border with him and highly promoted units, but my army is crushed when I enter his territory, so I cannot capture more cities to trigger my UA. He is allied with almost all city states and he completed Authority and Fealthy. I hope that planes in modern era with my UA, that I deal 10% more damage on each subsequent attack on same unit or a city, will be powerful, but I almost didn't play modern era in Vox Populi, because I were winning before that on King difficulty. Is it really as powerful as I expect? The problem might be with unit supply cap, because I already have only 4 free space for more units and I need to make more ships to defends against his naval army.
    10) My plan for future policies are Imperialism and Autocracy to boost my wars. I'm at war almost all time, so I farm science and culture.
    11) I don't focus city states at all, I have just 1 cultural ally thanks to my Great Diplomat, but I think I cannot afford to focus on it more.

    I can provide a save file and some screenshots later.
     
  2. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    Euh, you are France, you don't need to work those food hungry specialists. Go conquer some cities for free GWAM people. If you dislike those cities, burn them, let AI settle again and repeat.
     
  3. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

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    So I shouldn't work any guild specialists at all because of my UA? I cannot really conquer more cities, because my neighbor Inca crushes me, when I enter his territory.
     
  4. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Warlord

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    I think this is the main point to start with. If you want Tourism Victory - you want as many :tourism: as you can. You do not really need a lot of science or anything else. Or better to say you do, but you want to choose :tourism: over :c5science: if possible.
    You should prioritize Guilds and Culture specialists. Academies should of course be used, but starting from Industrial i think that its better to use Scientists for immediate boost. You probably should not distribute Academies and other GP improvements cause Capital usually have all % boosts to yields (like School of Philosophy)
    You should plant your Great People on Resources, so that you can maximize yields/citizen. You can work Academy and Tobacco with one citizen and get 80% of Tobacco+Academy and have 1 free citizen to work another tile
    They are. This is your advantage and you should use it.
    You should because of National Monument (is it the right name? I mean the building that gives +25%:c5greatperson: in your capital). Also playing Tourism you should probably play Tradition to get more of those Specialists and more Great People from it.
    Yes, you should. I typically work 2 or 3 farms in every city, because otherwise you will stuck on some amount of citizen and will never be able to work all other specialists. But keep in mind that more citizens = more unhappiness. Usually i'd say for Tourism Victory you should work all specialists firs
    Thats debatable. Unhappiness is definitely a problem but you have other priorities. You should try to solve happiness problem with other ways. Maybe buy some resources, also distribute your trade routes, trade routes can fix illiteracy/boredom/poverty in city.
    That depends on what you build. If you build Windmills or Archaeologists - better to maximize your production. Just compare what you get vs what you loose, usually it is quite obvious what to choose
    You should focus on not loosing units, once upon a time he will run out of units and fall apart. Though Inca is the worst enemy if he has cities on mountains. Maybe better to give up on trying to kill him? You want to win with tourism, not by capturing his cities. Trade routes + Religion + open borders give you huge tourism boost
    Why the hell do you want to go there if you want tourism? You should go Industry --> Freedom. Rationalism and Order are also possible, but freedom and Industry are stronger usually. Industry gives you Broadway, it is a very important touristic wonder.
    Same in my current game, i just do not have enough time to spend it on diplomats
     
    Vortok likes this.
  5. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

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    So GPI connects luxury resources also? I didn't know that, great point! But what do you mean I get 80% of Tobacco?
    At first I planned to conquer a lot of cities a lot to trigger UA, which worked great on King difficulty. That's why I went Authority, but it sucks, when I cannot conquer more cities. How could I predict that Inca would be such a problem?
    Do you mean work ALL specialists? Or just cultural?
    So is it better than food trade routes to capital?
    Yeah, he has lots of mountains nearby. With his production he may never run out of units before crippling war weariness, which will force us to peace.
    I wanted to take these war policies for this France UA + planes strategy. But you are right that it maybe better to go peacefully for a Cultural Vixtory with Industry + Freedom. Is Industry that good just because of Broadway?
     
  6. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Warlord

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    Well all of this depends on circumstances really.

    QUOTE="CppMaster, post: 15099201, member: 308660"]So GPI connects luxury resources also? I didn't know that, great point! But what do you mean I get 80% of Tobacco?[/QUOTE]
    I meant that if you work Tobacco with Plantation - you get 100% of Tobacco-yields. If you work Academy on Grassland - you get 100% of Academy-yields. But you need 2 citizens for that. If you plant Academy on Tobacco - you get 80% Tobacco-yields + 80% Academy-yields, but you need only 1 Citizen for that! In my current game my capital with 22 citizens work 1 farm with Wheat that gives me 13 food, 11 specialists and 10 tiles with GPI (i was focusing on prophets, so many Holy Sites)
    To be honest i haven't played France a single time. Though it seems to me that France is not a civ that you use to get Tourism Victory via lots of wars. Wars play against tourism. It is more likely an aggressive civ that has some nice bonuses from conquering cities.
    Inca is always a problem if you want to capture him. Now you know it. It's like having Huns near you when you play peacefully.
    Cultural, you won't have enough food for all of them.
    Not sure about Emperor. I play Deity and on Deity trade routes generate 50% of your science for the first half of your game (Because you are 12 techs behind). For the second half you need them to get Tourism Bombs (vis Custom House, don't underestimate them, they are huge!) and the % bonus to tourism for having a Trade Route.
    Yes Industry worth taking for Tourism play just because of Broadway. Especially if there are not too many civs with Industry on the map. If there are many of them and you have little chances of getting Broadway - might be better to go Rationalism.
    But as you describe your situation - it might be better for you to take Rationalism or Imperialism and give up Tourism victory. This is also an option
     
  7. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    In my experience, you need to wait for artillery to be able to deal with Incas, when their cities are on hills and mountains. Musketeers could work too, just don't let them die. You sure you don't have any other targets?

    Then try an attrition war. Declare war on them often, but don't venture too far into Inca territory, let them come to you, where you can survive and gather experience, while you kill their units.
     
  8. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

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    At first I wanted to try conquer whole world, that's why I went Authority, but then Inca become really hard to fight, so I decided that Tourism Victory is the only one viable.
    On the side note, can cities on mountain be captured? I cannot attack units on mountains with melee units.
    Oh, good to know!
     
  9. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

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    I could attack Austria, but she is my vassal. Also since it's Pangea Plus there are a lot of city states on islands, so maybe I could conquer them to trigger my UA and prevent alliances.
    Yeah, I'm forced to do that, because Inca declare wars on me very often :D
     
  10. neo_arcadia

    neo_arcadia Chieftain

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    I need ideas and I hope it doesn't stretch too far from this thread. I am a progress player who never played warlike civ and currently trying to play warlike civ still using Progress. France is my first warlike civ I tried and apparently I don't know how to maximize her potential. My first game with her I quit because the whole world declared war on me. Currently on my second game I fear that the same condition will happen again in the future. The warmonger diplomatic penalty was too high to bear because I think I conquered too many cities. Both games presented me with just two and one warmonger-like civ from 8-players setup so the other civ have much lower warmonger tolerance. My question is, what do warlike-civ do to not get crippled by other civ who dislike warmonger? I totally understand the viewpoint from non-warlike civ because I always got nervous in plenty of my games before, when one or two warlike civ dominated the scoreboard. I guess what I am looking for answer is that how to be self-sufficient as a warlike civ so that I don't need to care about other player's opinion and just crush them anyway. Also, when to stop conquering cities, specifically for France. Other problem I am having in my current game is that Korea (yeah, as always, when ahead) is having ten tech lead while the rest of the world is equal in technology level. Also, I can't cope with boredom penalty all the time. I mean, even if I prioritize culture building first in every non-puppet cities the boredom level stays the same. I think I would be crippled and forced to switch ideology in the future which totally not preferred. I thought playing as France would not give me this kind of problem lol but I am certain that the problem lies in my incapability of maximizing France potential.
     
  11. neo_arcadia

    neo_arcadia Chieftain

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    Forgot to add. The world is in casus belli state since early days of world congress, but the warmonger diplomatic score is still high (transparent diplomacy set to on). Also, currently is in mid-industrial era
     
  12. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Warlord

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    Build more units lol.

    Though i feel like Progress France is a mistake, you should take Authority. France's UA is really strong with Archer Rush, but becomes barely noticeable later in the game
     
  13. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    The UA is also very powerful with ranged ships
     
  14. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

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    How about planes?
     
  15. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    I don't find myself in many difficult wars where planes are around, but in theory sure. The UA makes a big group of any unit type good at taking cities
     
  16. pineappledan

    pineappledan Warlord

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    You sound like you are relatively fresh from BNW, and you sound like you are a pretty skilled player of BNW. One major difference between BNW and VP is the food consumed by specialists is higher (starts at 3), and it scales by 1 every era (so 4 in medieval, 5 in Rennaissance, etc.). As a result, Specialists are very greedy, and you may find they are strangling your city's development beyond what they are worth.
    The newest 'meta' in VP has, in general, lowered the value of specialists and buildings and distributed more of the yields onto tiles. If you are finding that you're being forced to put citizens on the map instead of city slots then the recent tweaks are doing their job.

    The French UA does indeed scale off of air units, so that's a great way to rack up bonuses, especially if you find yourself in a defensive war.
     
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