Note About Large Emperor Spaceship Game

Spoonwood

Grand Philosopher
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Recently I submitted this game.

There was one turn where I could tell that I would need more scientists to do 4 turn research for the next technology. So, after learning whatever I had been researching, I used "What's the Big Picture?" and cycled through (using the right arrow) to those highly corrupt cities with no infrastructure. Then I lifted citizens off of tiles and turned them into scientists. After doing that for a small handful of cities I started remembering the rules though. I see that it says:

HoF Rules said:

Changing Laborers pre-Production Phase (Civ/PtW/C3C)​


Breaking into the build sequence and changing Laborers from high commerce tiles to high production tiles by navigating through the city arrows or F1. Changing the Laborers in a city which has already completed it's production phase is allowable though.

Now, I didn't change laborers from high commerce tiles to high production tiles. But, I did change laborers pre-production phase by changing them into specialists. It was pre-production phase, though research had already completed.

I also find superslug said a while back:

During the interturn:
You can change a build from one item to another (i.e. Palace to U.N.).
You can pull citizens off of tiles and make them entertainers, but entertainers only, no other specialists.
You cannot pull citizens off of tiles and put them on other tiles, regardless of commerce/production variation.

So, that's an oops on my part for sure! But, I don't see how anything got affected, since had I waited to the end of the production phase, in principle, I could have changed citizens to scientists. Clearly though, there's a potential "double production" possibility by lifting citizens who had just produced beakers on say a coast square, to then get used as civil engineers!

And if my entry needs to get removed, because I lifted a few citizens and turned them into scientists before the turn finished properly, I understand. Rules need to get followed to maintain rigorous standards.
 
I also now see superslug later saying the following:

DaveMcW said:
Making entertainers double-counts happiness. If you're using them to prevent riots you probably won't be challenging the milkers' scores, but there is potential for abuse in happy cities.

Taxmen and scientists are 100% safe.
You've got a point, I'll add taxmen and scientists. I'll also stipulate this can only be done for riot prevention and prebuild stalling. If I catch anyone doing otherwise... :scan:
 
Also, when I did lifted citizens off of tiles I was in the modern era. I think it was only sub size 7 cities where I did this, though maybe there was one above size 6. I had access to all luxuries by this point. I also had J. S. Bach's Cathedral. Checking with one of the saves I found a size 6 city and put citizens on tiles with their happiness looking like this:

Size 6 City.png


Since I'm guessing a city or two was size 4 or size 5, I think that means I decreased score by changing a happy citizen into a specialist.

But, if the entry has to go, because I lifted a few citizens off of tiles, I understand. And no matter the ruling, in the future, I'm even more convinced that lifting citizens during the inter-turn after learning a technology isn't the thing to do, since it can decrease one's score.
 
If research was complete when you broke in, wouldn't you have had no affect on the game. In fact, you can only break in after research is done, I believe, so why did you even bother?
 
If research was complete when you broke in, wouldn't you have had no affect on the game. In fact, you can only break in after research is done, I believe, so why did you even bother?

I didn't realize this immediately also.

Lifting citizens wouldn't affect research time. So, yes, it won't have any effect in terms of finish date. However, score is the tiebreaker for any finish dates. Eman's comment in the linked thread indicates that one can potentially increase score by first having citizens produce commerce, then using "what's the big picture?" to change unhappy citizens (0 points) to content citizens (1 point):

Example: 6 Happy People + 6 Unhappy in a city. You change an unhappy person to a Taxman interturn. Now you have 6 Happy People + 5 Unhappy + 1 Taxman..............haven't you increased your happiness score by 1 point?

I broke in, because I noticed that for the next turn I would need to have scientists (and forgot for a bit about that restriction). Since I was thinking I'd need more scientists for 4 turn research I wanted to change things immediately, and breaking into the build sequence is quicker.

In my case though, I feel confident enough to say that I ended up decreasing score slightly though. So my haste was a bad idea, and sub-optimal play... and the kind that I think I would have happily avoided had I been thinking (not that I expect another entry where the tiebreaker comes to play... or care about number 1... I'd happily see someone submit a faster finish date if someone has the time and interest to do so). Or it was rule-breaking to the point that the entry should get excluded.
 
It depends on when the happiness score is calculated. I assumed that the happiness score is calculated when you click to "go to the next turn" and before interturn based on your cities at the time. In that case, you can't affect happiness score and its pointless activity. If it is at the end of the interturn, then I guess it could affect something, but I don't know why. I'm going to test this theory on a save.

Edit, I guess the only way to test this theory is to have a very, very highly upset population (say, you are doing the slider @ 30% and adjust down to 0% before the interturn) and then see the Firaxis score on V when the interturn finishes. Then re-load the save and break into the What's the Big Picture and turn the upset people into tax men or scientists and see what the Firaxis score is.
 
Well, wow, I just tested it on a very small scale with a 20% lux slider. I set the slider to 0% and let the interturn play out - a number of cities went into disorder and the resulting Firaxis score was 814.

I then re-loaded the save and once again reduced the slider from 20% to 0%. I also rushed a library in the capital so I'd get the first available city to break in with. I then went through each city and eliminated unhappy citizens by removing them from tiles and turning them into taxmen. When I was done, there were no unhappy citizens in this 22-city empire. The Firaxis score was 815.
 
A game this complicated means the competition rules inevitably stray into gray areas and very technical minutiae. This isn't worth tossing your submission over.
 
A game this complicated means the competition rules inevitably stray into gray areas and very technical minutiae. This isn't worth tossing your submission over.

Thank you sir. Happily also, thinking this through made me realize I don't think I want to do this again, since it could lower my score a bit.
 
Spoonwood, I agree with you that we need rules for the HOF games. However, if they cannot be enforced by 'slug or broken rules highlighted by another player, I think self-disqualification is unnecessary.
Some reasons come to mind:
1. Other players may have done the same thing and their entries stand in an HOF Table
2. The chances are the Game Score is not going to be affected greatly
3. It's a lot of work to gain a few extra points or an earlier game-end date
4. There are Rules in place that can have a great impact on the game but are loosely defined and probably should have been addressed more definitively years ago. E.g. The use of Civil Engineers.
5. Versions of Civ can have an advantage over others. E.g. Using PTW in place of C3C to score higher in Chieftain/Tiny/Score (or Conquest).
 
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