Notre-Dame is burning!

[Birdjaguar]

All the information and knowledge of the world at your fingertips and we use it to look at cat videos and argue with strangers.

We llok at cat videos because after we argue with strangers we need a break to reset for the next round of futility.

 

[Cutlass]

Maybe Trump should toss a tanker of water on those retidiots instead.

Sometimes I wonder where it all went so wrong. Where did all that irrational hatred come from. The Internet is a fountain of knowledge, and huge masses are sipping from a back-alley trough.

It comes from people convincing other people that some "other" group of people are trying to take things away from them. Essentially the same way the Nazis came to power.

 

[Hamid.H]

It comes from people convincing other people that some "other" group of people are trying to take things away from them. Essentially the same way the Nazis came to power.

i mean, its a compelling argument for individuals who still have lizard brains, "the muslims took away your notre dame, theyre taking your women with muslim rape gangs in the uk, but, but the no-go-zones in france!" when all this really means is that youll have to compromise, set aside your egos and decolonize racist western institutions in order to build a more inclusive world.

hh

 

[Cutlass]

i mean, its a compelling argument for individuals who still have lizard brains, "the muslims took away your notre dame, theyre taking your women with muslim rape gangs in the uk, but, but the no-go-zones in france!" when all this really means is that youll have to compromise, set aside your egos and decolonize racist western institutions in order to build a more inclusive world.

hh

Many people don't want that. They want a social/political/economic position which is superior to "the others".

 

[Mouthwash]

So are you saying you've changed your mind, and that you now consider Christendom to be more "real" than the French nation?

No idea what you're attempting to say, but Christendom doesn't exist anymore. That's my point.

And that makes them a disgusting nation?

No more disgusting than modern Britain, Germany, or the US.

That's a pretty incredibly idiotic statement. You dislike that the builders of a building consider the building theirs ? Did you hit your head on something ?

Secularists shouldn't get to take credit for religious art.

fake new sites like breitbarf are still whipping rubes and bible thumpers into a frothing rage over this. a few churches get vandalized and suddenly its a giant fake news conspiracy,

Claiming that something is underreported isn't a conspiracy. The vandalism doesn't surprise me one bit; France has had a tradition of sectarian violence at least as old as the Notre Dame itself.

It comes from people convincing other people that some "other" group of people are trying to take things away from them.

Maybe you guys should stop explicitly advocating for the destruction of traditional or Christian ways of life? That could be, like, an important first step in convincing us otherwise.

Essentially the same way the Nazis came to power.

Yes, literally everything proves that.

 

[Lexicus]

No idea what you're attempting to say, but Christendom doesn't exist anymore. That's my point.

Who do you think "owns" Notre Dame if not the French people or nation?

 

[Mouthwash]

Who do you think "owns" Notre Dame if not the French people or nation?

Catholics. I think religion should supersede nationalism every time.

I'd accept a Christian French nation having a special claim to it.

 

[Cutlass]

Maybe you guys should stop explicitly advocating for the destruction of traditional or Christian ways of life? That could be, like, an important first step in convincing us otherwise.

The problem here being, of course, that God was very explicit when he told you not to say that. So when you are saying that, you are knowingly and intentionally defying God. See, when God told you not to say that, he didn't say it was a suggestion. He said it was a commandment.

 

[Birdjaguar]

No more disgusting than modern Britain, Germany, or the US.

Is there anyone or nation not disgusting or is the world just a disgusting place without redeeming value?

 

[Lexicus]

Catholics. I think religion should supersede nationalism every time.

I'd accept a Christian French nation having a special claim to it.

And what would a Christian French nation look like exactly? Lots of torturing heretics and heathens? Expulsion of the Jews (again)?

 

[Mouthwash]

The problem here being, of course, that God was very explicit when he told you not to say that. So when you are saying that, you are knowingly and intentionally defying God. See, when God told you not to say that, he didn't say it was a suggestion. He said it was a commandment.

Quote that commandment, if you please.

Is there anyone or nation not disgusting or is the world just a disgusting place without redeeming value?

It was a lot less disgusting a thousand years ago. I'm not claiming that things were better overall (it was about the same), only that the ethical character of people was.

I genuinely do not see the positive anywhere except for a few select groups. Everyone else seems intent on pursuing their lunatic vision to the ends of the Earth and beyond. In the Middle East, religious violence and cruelty towards women is a part of daily life, and the Islamists have largely won the culture war. In China, we have a despotic, atheistic technocracy that is wiping out all local identity in its borders. You already know what I think of the West.

And what would a Christian French nation look like exactly? Lots of torturing heretics and heathens? Expulsion of the Jews (again)?

I hardly see what's wrong with a healthy intolerance of heresy.

 

[Cutlass]

Quote that commandment, if you please.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour

 

[Birdjaguar]

It was a lot less disgusting a thousand years ago. I'm not claiming that things were better overall (it was about the same), only that the ethical character of people was.

I genuinely do not see the positive anywhere except for a few select groups. Everyone else seems intent on pursuing their lunatic vision to the ends of the Earth and beyond. In the Middle East, religious violence and cruelty towards women is a part of daily life, and the Islamists have largely won the culture war. In China, we have a despotic, atheistic technocracy that is wiping out all local identity in its borders. You already know what I think of the West.

Thanks. I guess we disagree on key points. I certainly see the world as a better place now than 1000 years ago. I think more people are in less pain and struggle less now than in the past. I also think that we are ethically pretty similar, but a more global world with improved communications and travel just allow for more opportunities to do good and to do ill towards others. Well, I hope you are making an effort to join with one of the groups you see doing better than the rest of us.

 

[Hamid.H]

Who do you think "owns" Notre Dame if not the French people or nation?

Catholics. I think religion should supersede nationalism every time.

I'd accept a Christian French nation having a special claim to it.

actually the city of paris owns it, however that doesnt stop the catholic church from fleecing the locals for maintenance and repairs while they pay no taxes and also use the church for free.


http://time.com/4876087/notre-dame-cathedral-is-crumbling/

Old financing dispute hangs over Notre-Dame blaze donations

https://www.reuters.com/article/france-notredame-funds-idUSL5N21Y4BR

No idea what you're attempting to say, but Christendom doesn't exist anymore. That's my point.

and thats suppose to be a bad thing?

hh

 

[Akka]

Secularists shouldn't get to take credit for religious art.

It's historical cultural art, and the culture which produced it is totally justified in considering it's part of itself. You seem to be so blinded by your stupid religious obsession that you manage to fail to grasp the concepts of history and culture.

 

[Mouthwash]

You know what, I shouldn't have brought my opinions up. Let's just get back to the topic.

EDIT: Here is some interesting stuff to kickstart discussion:

1. The Notre Dame in Assassin's Creed: Unity was so accurate it may be used to help reconstruct the real thing.

2. A comprehensive analysis of the damage by a French archaeologist.

3. I've heard a claim that in the 13th century Paris’ prostitutes raised money to pay for one of the famous rose windows, but the bishop rejected the offer. I'm unable to find a source for this, though. Anyone know if it's true?

 

[Thorgalaeg]

The structure stands but is somewhat weakened.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20190416/as...dral-is-still-in-doubt-after-horrifying-blaze

Interiors after fire:

Looks pretty intact, specially after that pic from above where it looked like the entire building was completely burnt, while in fact it was the second roof only.
It is amazing how solid gothic architecture is, even being so vertical and apparently ethereal with relatively thin walls full of huge glass windows. Cologne cathedral got 14 direct bomb hits in WW2 without too much damage:

 

[AdrienIer]

Secularists shouldn't get to take credit for religious art.

I wonder who should take credit for the religious art made by non-religious people ?

Some people claim that the religious right wants us to go back to the middle ages. It's usually a hyperbole but not in the case of mouthwash apparently.

Edit : I didn't see Mouthwash's last message, so I'll leave that discussion aside as well

 

[Gedemon]

Catholics. I think religion should supersede nationalism every time.

I'll agree when the catholics will pay for the maintenance.

 

[r16]

was to avoid this but a random glimpse assures this has a place here . Palestinians are down to defending El Aksa and right on , right on some kids start a fire in the security booth . How much fun it would be if those kids could be permitted to go further and start a bigger one . Right on , the thread would be "justified" ...