Nova Roman Imperium 2021, SPQR

[Zardnaar]

The idea of Moscow being 3-rd Rome is from 16-th century, before the Romanov dynasty was founded.
After the fall of Constantinople, the idea was that Moscow tsardom is a "successor state" of Byzantine Empire, because it was largest Eastern Orthodoxy state and inherited many cultural things from there, such as the alphabet. Also, Ivan III dynastic marriage, which you mentioned and the general resurgence of Moscow state (it got rid of Mongol yoke about that time and became much more powerful).

It has pretty much nothing to do with Romanovs, rather with Moscow as the city and Moscow-based state, which was essentially born right after the fall of 2-nd Rome and survived to this day

I know but her bloodline is still present in the modern Romanov pretenders afaik.

 

[red_elk]

Ivan III was from the Rurik dynasty which didn't survive through the Time of Troubles.

 

[Kyriakos]

Well, first things first. Our national anthem can be this:

"Shining brighter than the skies; more clear than light itself"

 

[Dekker]

I don't it's a light hearted thread it's not even remotely plausible.

At uni doing politics paper we learnt that Monarchy is the most stable polital system we've come up with

I dunno Zard you do come across as a very nice polite respectable dude and frame things in this neutral manner but pretty much every single one of your posts are like stealth sympathizing for some godawful stuff that a certain segment also tends to be passionate about:
Free speech for Nazis. Look at me grew up rough how hilarious are safe spaces. Feminists ruining video games. Antifa equals Nazis. Feminism ruining universities. I'm so manly. Immigration ruining everything. These terrible minorities I knew growing up. Etc. And on and on. At least Bezerker is honest about his views.

 

[Zardnaar]

I dunno Zard you do come across as a very nice polite respectable dude and frame things in this neutral manner but pretty much every single one of your posts are like stealth sympathizing for some godawful stuff that a certain segment also tends to be passionate about:
Free speech for Nazis. Look at me grew up rough how hilarious are safe spaces. Feminists ruining video games. Antifa equals Nazis. Feminism ruining universities. I'm so manly. Immigration ruining everything. These terrible minorities I knew growing up. Etc. And on and on. At least Bezerker is honest about his views.

I have very little time for PC culture.

Like if I was Grand High Poobah of a Country using gay marriage for example.

I would just pass the law and move along to the next problem. I wouldn't make a big deal about it, I wouldn't post on Twitter about it.

The Nazi who shot up the mosque would probably have an accident. Don't make a big deal about it, don't post about it online move on to next problem.

The big problem is the complete failure of neo liberal economic policies.

All the other PC causes are secondary to that IMHO. Cart before horse. If things are bad people will beer towards extremes left or right. If it's really bad you will have riots and revolution.

People aren't going to be overly empathetic if they're suffering themselves.

I mock the left because they deserve it and they're useless. The right live them or hate them at least are laser focused on tax cuts and neo liberal trickle down.

Moderator Action: This is trolling. Kindly limit this kind of behaviour. Thank you. --LM

Hilary couldn't relate to the average person, UK labour party is a joke along with the Aussie one.

It's frustrating because there's all these special cause popular on the left that the larger electorate doesn't care about (eg global warming in the US).

You need to win an election first and it's going to take decades to fix. In US terms that also means the Senate which means winning in states that don't really care about special cause XYZ.

Dumping Trump is step 1.

 

[red_elk]

Well, first things first. Our national anthem can be this:

"Shining brighter than the skies; more clear than light itself"

Funny, some words can be read in Russian and sound exactly the same (хара, лампротера...) just don't make any sense to me.

 

[Zardnaar]

I got the idea from this video, I don't expect people to watch a half hour video though.

I like history, I find the old royal houses interesting and I like the classical world and civilizations like Aztecs, Incas, Maya, Egypt etc.

At least reading about them.

 

[abradley]

I want a new line, why not matriarch. Leave the fighting to us males and the managing to the females.

 

[Zardnaar]

I want a new line, why not matriarch. Leave the fighting to us males and the managing to the females.

No reason whatsoever but the vaguely plausible candidates are either from male succession laws or have a male leader ATM in Spain's case and I'm not 100% sure what laws they have.

The Russian "claim" is through the female line.

 

[Mango Elephant]

Honestly, I'm so down as long as the toga becomes the official required outfit to be worn by all citizens. They look much more comfortable than stupid pants. A healthy breeze never hurt anyone, especially when it's so hot outside.

 

[Patine]

Silly what if idea but thought it would be a hoot.

Anyway my scenario

Trump wins 2020 as the Dems snatch defeat from victory.

Brexit turns out to be a cluster erm mess.

Anyway all countries in the former empire decide to voluntarily reunite the Roman empire and the pope crowns a new Emperor. SPQR!!!.

Silly idea I admit but who would have the best claim?

The 3 leading contenders IMHO

1. The House of Romanovs.

The third Rome. The Russians used to claim this due to a niece of the last Byzantine Emperor marrying the Russian king. The dynasty changed but afaik her bloodline is still present in the current house of Romanovs contenders. Claims through females though are often not recognized due to succession laws.

2. House if Osmanoglu

The Ottomans captured Constantinople in 1453 and to the victors go the spoils. The empire is fine but the heirs of Osman are still around and can trace their bloodline back to the 13th Century. While Muslim the Empire changed religion.

3. Current Spanish Royal Family

A will left the titles of Byzantium to Isabella and Ferdinand. Under Roman law legally this would be better than a weak blood claim. Current king king has the advantage of being a reigning monarch. All the direct Byzantine male bloodlines died out although cadet branches survived.

Others

4. House of Hapsburg.

Perhaps the greatest dynasty if Europe the can trace their bloodlines back to 11th Century. Can probably trace their bloodlines to previous Byzantine Emperor's rather than Constantine XI and were the successors if the Holy Ronan Empire.

So these 4 could plausibly be a new Roman Emperor. 3 have links to Byzantium while the Hapsburgs have links to the Holy Roman Empire.

Longshots

5. House of Napoleon

Napoleon's family is still going and he was crowned Emperor by the pope.

6. House of Windsor
The current royal family if England has bloodline links to most if the remaining and dethroned houses.

7. Unknown Byzantine bloodline

Previous Byzantine Emperor's had brothers etc that were not heirs but had cadet branches.
Apparently some modern families can trace their lines back to them so if you went back to the brothers of previous Emperor's and if you could prove the ancestry some of these cadet branches can claim imperial ancestry.

Any family that can trace their bloodline to any Emperor of Byzantium after Alexios Kommenos is a relative of Alexios Kommenos.

You do have course know that Roman politics was not nearly as simplistically "family of power" based as Feudal European, which seems to be what you're implying. There were far more Emperors in the Ancient Roman Empire who came to the throne by victory on the battlefield, declaration of the Army and/or Senate, coup or assassination of a predecessor, buying the office from the Praetorian Guard, or being granted it outright by one's predecessor than ever attained it by hereditary progeniture. Please, do not confuse Ancient Roman succession law and politics and struggles around "the Purple" with Medieval European bloodline convservation. Also, why would the Houses of Romanov, Windsor, or Osmanoglu consider a coronation by the Pope as having any meaningful authority or mandate, or being anything but willing subordination to a outside religious leader, threatening (even invalidating) the legitimacy of their own Royal Lines' mandate of power and legacy?

 

[Zardnaar]

You do have course know that Roman politics was not nearly as simplistically "family of power" based as Feudal European, which seems to be what you're implying. There were far more Emperors in the Ancient Roman Empire who came to the throne by victory on the battlefield, declaration of the Army and/or Senate, coup or assassination of a predecessor, buying the office from the Praetorian Guard, or being granted it outright by one's predecessor than ever attained it by hereditary progeniture. Please, do not confuse Ancient Roman succession law and politics and struggles around "the Purple" with Medieval European bloodline convservation. Also, why would the Houses of Romanov, Windsor, or Osmanoglu consider a consider a coronation as having any meaningful authority or mandate, or being anything but willing subordination to a outside religious leader, threatening (even invalidating) the legitimacy of their own Royal Lines' mandate of power and legitimacy?

It's mostly an absurd question but there's not really any other links to the ERE left.

If the empire did reunite you're quite correct anyone could theoretically claim the throne.
Late Byzantine dynasts though had the right connections I suppose.

I think the main bloodline died out 16th or 17th century in England iirc.

For most of the dynasts u mentioned here if they had the choice of an empire or displaced house .....

Although some probably don't want thrones anyway a few are still stupidly rich.

 

[Ferocitus]

Family: The Borgias (sponsored by Red Bull)
Anthem: They can use Australia's unofficial one

 

[uppi]

It doesn't matter who has a claim, as tradition would require the newly formed Praetorian Guard to assassinate the new emperor within a year, anyway.

Alternatively, the HRE method could be used, in which a council of state leaders elect someone in an intransparent manner...hmm...sounds familiar...maybe just rename the EU?

 

[Zardnaar]

It doesn't matter who has a claim, as tradition would require the newly formed Praetorian Guard to assassinate the new emperor within a year, anyway.

Alternatively, the HRE method could be used, in which a council of state leaders elect someone in an intransparent manner...hmm...sounds familiar...maybe just rename the EU?

Nah the new Emperor would hire some large Scandinavians.

 

[Kyriakos]

It doesn't matter who has a claim, as tradition would require the newly formed Praetorian Guard to assassinate the new emperor within a year, anyway.

Alternatively, the HRE method could be used, in which a council of state leaders elect someone in an intransparent manner...hmm...sounds familiar...maybe just rename the EU?

First of all, the HRE was in no way roman.
Secondly, the praetorian guard was from classical times. Byz empire had a rather complex, literally byzantine political system.

Nah the new Emperor would hire some large Scandinavians.

 

[Lexicus]

Why do you love authoritarianism?

He's a centrist with zero political opinions, get it right

 

[Patine]

He's a centrist with zero political opinions, get it right

No one understands what the word "Centrism" means anymore, except for it's actual adherents. It's become an agreed upon form of slander by both the far-left and far-right, who are tearing this world apart and destroying it with their misguided, uniformed, vitriolic, destructive, and inflexible and uncompromising rhetoric and no true productive solutions. Centrists are constantly accused, for convenience of launching falsified political attacks, of standing for things believable to the uneducated, but are not actually what Centrists really believe and stand for.

 

[Kyriakos]

Neo-Byzantine Evangelion.

 

[Zardnaar]

He's a centrist with zero political opinions, get it right

More old fashioned left of center with not much tolerance for far right/left BS and extreme PC culture.