Now Ukraine Wants a Missile Shield...

I would say no. Ukraine is still kind of unstable politically, and while they deserve a spot in NATO, I wouldn't let that happen yet.

2000th post!
 
:lol:

And yet another ill concieved Russian power move blows up in its face. I can't say I am supprised.
 
I thought these missile shields were pretty much useless? All Ukraine would be doing is antagonising Russia.

That was what I was thinking. Russia is making much ado about nothing.
 
Ukraine is free to use their own funds to build their own shield. We shouldn't do it for them.

Russia's no match for Europe. Although he left Vietnam almost forty years ago, John McCain still seems stuck the past.

How on earth you were able to come to that conclusion is beyond me?
 
:lol:

And yet another ill concieved Russian power move blows up in its face. I can't say I am supprised.

How is this blowing up in russia's face? I thought these missiles would be useless against Russian attacks?
 
Ukraine obviously doesn't give a rat's ass about giving Russia the middle finger. Probably a combination of Russia proving its belligerance and its Army proving to be the incompetent rabble of looter conscripts in rusting 80s vintage gear we all knew it was.
 
Ukraine obviously doesn't give a rat's ass about giving Russia the middle finger. Probably a combination of Russia proving its belligerance and its Army proving to be the incompetent rabble of looter conscripts in rusting 80s vintage gear we all knew it was.

but the Ukrainian west has long hated Russia. what has changed here?
 
Russia is doing a lot of saber rattling and acting like it's still the USSR. Unfortunately, no one in the EU has the clout to stand up to it, nor does America have the support to do so.
 
Poland and Ukraine just told the Russians to go . .. .. .. . themselves, I wouldn's say nobody in the Europe.

All Russia accomplished here was to ensure their sphere of influnece remains what it currently is, nothing.
 
Poland and Ukraine just told the Russians to go . .. .. .. . themselves, I wouldn's say nobody in the Europe.

All Russia accomplished here was to ensure their sphere of influnece remains what it currently is, nothing.

I dont know about that, they appear to be succeeding in partially dismantling the US' closest ally on their borders. but dont let the facts get in the way of your hopes, eh?
 
Probably a combination of Russia proving its belligerance and its Army proving to be the incompetent rabble of looter conscripts in rusting 80s vintage gear we all knew it was.

Hahahahaha

If I was in to sigging things, this would be it.

Bravo.

~Chris
 
I dont know about that, they appear to be succeeding in partially dismantling the US' closest ally on their borders. but dont let the facts get in the way of your hopes, eh?

The thing is, Georgia is isolated in Central Asia. Ukraine and Poland are stronger countries in the middle of Europe.
 
Well Russia has much to lose in relation with Ukraine. I am not so sure how much Poland is , or was in it's sphere of influence
 
Ia gree with all of that, but I'm not sure what point you are making?

That Ukraine and Poland told Russia to go shove it, and they have a better chance of actually standing strong instead of flopping like Georgia.
 
I dont know about that, they appear to be succeeding in partially dismantling the US' closest ally on their borders. but dont let the facts get in the way of your hopes, eh?

Realpolitc, Georgia is near insignificant when talking about US allies. But then again you are wrong anyway, Russia's interference in Georgia has solidified the Ukraine's an other former SSRs links to the US.
 
But in the relation of Ukraine the Russians acted wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia-Ukraine_gas_dispute

The dispute between Russian state-owned gas supplier Gazprom and Ukraine over natural gas prices started in March of 2005 (over the price of natural gas and prices for the transition of Gazprom's gas to Europe). The two parties were unable to reach an agreement to resolve the dispute, and Russia cut gas exports to Ukraine on January 1, 2006 at 10:00 MSK. The supply was restored on January 4, 2006, when a preliminary agreement between two gas companies was settled. However, the inter-government treaty has not been signed yet.

Amidst speculation that preceded the signing of the agreement, the presidents of both countries declared on January 11, 2006 in Kazakhstan that both sides did indeed arrive at compromises in a mutually satisfying agreement, and declared that they would more work of cooperation in other areas of conduct of the neighbour countries.

A new gas dispute arose in October 2007 and it culminated with the gas reduction in March 2008.

What they have to lose and what they have to" win"


After both Ukraine and Russia terminated the union several acute disputes formed. The former one was the question of the Crimea which the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic has administered since 1954, but the transfer itself was done in violation of acting Soviet law. This however was largely resolved with Russia allowing Crimea to remain part of Ukraine, provided its Autonomous Republic status is preserved.

The second major dispute of the 1990s was the city of Sevastopol, with its base of the Black Sea Fleet. Unlike Crimea, Sevastopol was directly subordinate to Moscow, and after several years of intense negotiations, it was decided on the Fleet's partioning and Russia retaining its base in Sevastopol until 2017.

Another major dispute became the energy supply problems as several Soviet-Western Europe oil & gas pipelines ran through Ukraine. According to Gazeta.ru, in the 1990s Ukraine openly syphoned off Russian gas,[7] and after new treaties came into affect, the enormous debts were paid off by transfer of several Soviet weaponry and nuclear arsenals that Ukraine inherited, to Russia such as the Tu-160 bombers.[8] During the 1990s both countries along with other ex-Soviet states founded the Commonwealth of Independent States and large business partnerships came into affect.

[edit] 2000s

Although disputes prior to the events of late 2004 were present including the accidental shooting down of a Siberia Airlines Tupolev Tu-154 in 2002 by the Ukrainian air defence and the controversy with the Tuzla Island, relations with Russia under the latter years of Leonid Kuchma improved. After the Orange Revolution, however, several problems resurfaced including a gas dispute, and Ukraine's potential NATO membership.

Today Russia remains Ukraine's biggest economic parter, Ukraine's tourist industry is heavily dependent on Russian tourists, and Russia's economy boom also depends on Ukrainian migrant workers. The overall perception of relations with Russia in Ukraine differs largely on regional factors. Many Russophone eastern and southern regions, which are also home to the majority of the Russian diaspora in Ukraine welcome closer relations with Russia[9]. However further central and particularly western regions of Ukraine show a less friendly attitude to the idea of a historic link to Russia[10][11][12][13] and the Soviet Union in particular[14]. In Russia, there is no regional breakdown in the opinion of Ukraine[15], but on the whole, Ukraine's recent attempts to joint the EU and NATO was seen as change of course to only a pro-Western, anti-Russian orientiation of Ukraine and thus a sign of hostility and this resulted in a drop of Ukraine's perception in Russia[16] (although Ukrainian President Yushchenko reassured Russia that joining NATO it is not meant as an anti-Russian act[17]). This was further fuelled by the public discussion in Ukraine if the Russian language should be given official status[18] and be made the second state language[19][20] . Further worsening relations where provoking statements by both Russian (a.o. the Russian Foreign Ministry[21], the Mayor of Moscow Yury Luzhkov[22] and then President Vladimir Putin[17][23]) and Ukrainian politicians, for example, the former Foreign Minister]] Borys Tarasiuk[24], deputy Justice Minister of Ukraine Evhen Kornichuk[25] and then leader of parliamentary opposition Yulia Tymoshenko[26]).
 
Realpolitc, Georgia is near insignificant when talking about US allies. But then again you are wrong anyway, Russia's interference in Georgia has solidified the Ukraine's an other former SSRs links to the US.

solidified? the baltic states were already bent over for the US, nothing has changed there. yeah Ukraine's ruling party is even less fond of russia, but thats irrelevant, nothing of any practical difference has happened across Europe apart form Georgia being spanked. so Timoshenko hates Putin even more now. What difference does it make>? Was she ever going to like him anyway? Is she even going to be PM in a few years? No. dont get the idea Ukraine is a permanent ally to the US, because it is unstable and divided, and has potential seccesionist problems of its own, it would be next to useless as a US ally at the moment. Its not going to be in NATO anytime soon, it need to have at least workable relations with Russia and wont do anything to really antagonise Russia other than . .. .. .. .. . about it and then resume normal economic relations.

frankly, being a US ally who likes to provoke russia hasnt looked so unapealling in donkeys years. this is rhetoric, nothing more.
 
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