[GS] Nuclear defence

[regeneration64]

Has anyone noticed any difference with being able to defend against nukes in GS?

Do Mobile SAMs now actually provide cover like the tooltip suggests and does Victor's Air Defense Initiative help?

 

[Victoria]

Has anyone noticed any difference with being able to defend against nukes in GS?
Do Mobile SAMs now actually provide cover like the tooltip suggests and does Victor's Air Defense Initiative help?

They always did. I did a thread on it once.
Silo and bombers are vulnerable to SAM’s and AA. Nothing stops sub launched.
I can check if that has changed.
Bombers have to be 50% damaged to turn back (apart from Slim Pickens)
With silo launched (ICBM) There is a chance to kill but it was always fairly high so not impressed with this unless they have reduced the chance.

 

[regeneration64]

Thanks @Victoria.

Agreed. The ICBM chance of not hitting its target was almost non-existent IIRC in vanilla and R&F.

It will be interesting to see if anything has changed now as I swear the wording of the mobile SAM tooltip has altered (I may be mistaken) to include "cover from nuclear attacks" which I read as from any source.

 

[Victoria]

Thanks @Victoria.
Agreed. The ICBM chance of not hitting its target was almost non-existent IIRC in vanilla and R&F.
It will be interesting to see if anything has changed now as I swear the wording of the mobile SAM tooltip has altered (I may be mistaken) to include "cover from nuclear attacks" which I read as from any source.

Ah perhaps a misunderstanding, I meant a good chance of killing an ICBM but it must be at the target, not in between.

 

[Sostratus]

Ah perhaps a misunderstanding, I meant a good chance of killing an ICBM but it must be at the target, not in between.

So your SAM has to be within one tile of the target hex?
And are multiple SAMs independent chances for a shootdown?

Given the blast range of thermonuclear it seems pretty easy to just employ creeping death- hit the first SAM from two tiles out, target one tile closer, etc, until everything is gone. I've never been on the receiving end of a nuke in Civ6 so I'm terribly unfamiliar. Putting a SDI project in the future era techs would actually be kinda neato. I mean if we have lasers that can push spaceships across the galaxy then we could definitely just use them to fry all the missiles.

 

[Victoria]

So your SAM has to be within one tile of the target hex?
And are multiple SAMs independent chances for a shootdown?

Yes creeping death with big bombs they can do nothing against. One tile only.
The way I know it works for bombers is likely to be similar for ICBM. In that every additional adds +5... however an AA gun counts as +5 just like an additional SAM counts +5

 

[LKx]

A friend of mine nuclearized me with 20-30 thermo and nuclears.
SAMs&co could do very little against it

 

[L4Psha]

In my recent game i was shot three times with sub and all three times missile was intercepted. I even thought that SAM gives a 100% protection againts them.

 

[Victoria]

In my recent game i was shot three times with sub and all three times missile was intercepted. I even thought that SAM gives a 100% protection againts them.

Now that is interesting. My tests were before GS and always in firetuner. Was this a GS game?
If so I will go through testing again. When finished I would post the saves here so you can see results in real time.

 

[Haggbart]

A friend of mine nuclearized me with 20-30 thermo and nuclears.
SAMs&co could do very little against it

"friend"

 

[Takfloyd]

They should have brought back the anti-nuke laser satellites from the earlier Civ games, especially now with the Future Era.

 

[Aristos]

A friend of mine nuclearized me with 20-30 thermo and nuclears.
SAMs&co could do very little against it

Well, at least now your carbon footprint is very tiny...

 

[L4Psha]

Now that is interesting. My tests were before GS and always in firetuner. Was this a GS game?
If so I will go through testing again. When finished I would post the saves here so you can see results in real time.

Yes, it was.

 

[Patine]

Ah, I remember the SDI Defense improvement of Civ2...

 

[regeneration64]

I would be very interested to see if SAMs now have a percentage chance to intercept all nukes, from any source.

 

[Victoria]

I would be very interested to see if SAMs now have a percentage chance to intercept all nukes, from any source.

It has always been the case that if a bomber gets damaged 50% it turns back, that is definitely how that works. Just the same as any strategic bomber run (pillaging a tile for example)

 

[Victoria]

@regeneration64 Here is a save where you can test a lot of scenarios, it now seems sub nukes are shot down also. You can play shooting any land tile to see they only defend in 1 tile. You can delete AA to lower the strength.
As I said bomers fail if they takes 50% damage... try to bomb marseille with a bomber or 2.

The shockers when you try this save is.
1. If your attack is shot down it does not count as you being at war
2. If your attack is shot down you do not lose a nuke
3. . War WEariness ... what is that?... no effect on war weariness for nukes.

This save has no mods but all DLC's... sorry if you are missing a DLC
It is a fine save to play if you have not done much nuking, just load to your /save/single directory, load and you are ready to strike.

 

[L4Psha]

@regeneration64 Here is a save where you can test a lot of scenarios, it now seems sub nukes are shot down also. You can play shooting any land tile to see they only defend in 1 tile. You can delete AA to lower the strength.
As I said bomers fail if they takes 50% damage... try to bomb marseille with a bomber before and after delting the AA unit there (but not the SAM)

The shockers when you try this save is.
1. If your attack is shot down it does not count as you being at war
2. If your attack is shot down you do not lose a nuke
3. . War WEariness ... what is that?... no effect on war weariness for nukes.

This save has no mods but all DLC's... sorry if you are mnissing a DLC
It is a fine save to play if you have not done much nuking, just load to your /save/single directory, load and you are ready to strike.
View attachment 520746

Sorry, but how can i delete units if i'm playing Amanitore?

But nevertheless here is what i found. Missile cruiser doesn't intercept sub nukes. It does intercept nukes launched from silo (strangely it has no animation for this, just message that nuke was intercepted and destroyed). So does SAM including sub nukes. But the rate against missiles in both cases is so high that i think it is 100%. I launched more than 10 times in one unit and on the tile near it.
There is also some advantages in each nuke delivery. Silos can launch again even if their nukes were intercepted. Sub on the other way cannot so it can be countered, because you see from where it launches nuke. Bombers have a chance to slip through anti-air. Once a bomber dropped a nuke and jet bomber failed against the same tile. But this advantage of bombers counts if SAM is really 100% accurate. I don't was it all intentional.

Thanks for the nice test site btw

 

[Victoria]

Sorry, but how can i delete units if i'm playing Amanitore?

Good point, you get so used to just doing it with firetuner you forget, apologies. Just changed the original post to avoid confusion again.

Thanks for the nice test site btw

No probs, it took at most 15 minutes to setup once you are used to firetuner.

If you wanted some other test... the AA removal was just to show that Sm’s seem to stop all sub & ICBM but not all bombers.
Subs have the range advantage and Silo’s the price advantage.

 

[L4Psha]

Subs have the range advantage and Silo’s the price advantage.

I think it just depends on type - 12 for nuclear and 15 for thermonuclear.