Nuclear Diplomacy

Uberfrog

Deity
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Messages
2,918
Location
England
After winning a technological victory far too easily as Korea on Prince, I moved up to King and played a Standard Fractal with Arabia.

I had an excellent start: floodplain, oases and luxuries, which naturally suit Arabia's UA and UB. However I wasn't playing particularly brilliantly, and despite a decent trade network, was a middle-ranking civ.

I had captured and puppetted some English and Roman cities, and was supplementing my science and culture by allying to city states (Bucharest, Kathmandu and Lhasa). However I was quite a way behind Gandhi and Sejong, who were ridiculously wealthy and advanced.

Gandhi had taken the remains of England, when he declared war. He being so far ahead of me, this war would last for the remainder of the game, as he would only give peace for an extortionate amount. Despite the AI's usually lacking tactics (he for some reason hadn't upgraded his longswords and crossbows, despite having around 20000 gold in store), his advancement and industry were enough to make him a threat, not least because at the other end of the continent, wars with Augustus and Montezuma, who were at the same tech level as me, were diverting my army.

However he threw his army against my ally Bucharest, and between them, me and Kathmandu we repelled his forces and he never set foot on Arabian soil.

The main problem was their tech lead. First Sejong got the Apollo program, and then Gandhi, and I had more or less resigned to defeat. No way was I strong enough to attack the centre of the Indian empire, and between India and Siam, too many other city states were bought up to try a Diplomatic victory. Or so I thought.

Gandhi built the UN. Before the first vote I desperately snapped up Monaco, Florence and Budapest -- that gave me 6 votes to Gandhi's 8, and as soon as his gift to another state (I forget which) ran out, I grabbed it. 7:7.

The diplomatic stalemate continued, with Korea, Siam and India each constructing SS parts. Rammy and Gandhi were bickering over Singapore and Helsinki; each turn it would flip allegiance -- the investment must have been thousands of gold: no way could I hope to buy them out. The rest of the city states were either mine, or peace blocked by India.

However I had an opportunity: England (taken by India), Warsaw (Aztecs, and then Rome) and Genoa (Aztecs, Rome) were close enough and ill-defended enough for me to liberate, securing the votes I needed to win. With nothing to lose, I resolved to take my chance, and bring freedom to these forsaken lands! To help me on my quest, the recently completed Manhattan project. Peace by any means necessary, right? :)

Gandhi continued pushing on Bucharest, and he conquered it. Pushing back, I liberated it and moved on to Nottingham. I used nukes to soften it, and invaded with mechanized infantry. Elizabeth returned eternally grateful, despite her once-beautiful homeland being tainted by fallout. Meanwhile, I shut Monty up by nuking Genoa, and rolling in with infantry. The lush Genoese farmland was glowing, but they were still free! 9:7.

Then Gandhi took Monaco, further down the coast. Sending my souped-up artillery (with logistics and extra range :)) onto a small island 4 tiles off the coast, and using AA and Mech Inf, I took it back. Just then, Gandhi completed SS Stasis chamber: he only needed one more booster. :O

This is where it got weird. Progress on spaceships seemed to stall. Sejong had got to the future era a while ago, yet had not completed the Cockpit or Stasis Chamber. Rammy was the same. Only Gandhi was on the home straight. With no other option, I declared on Augustus, and moved on Warsaw. Another nuke, 2 Bombers, Tanks and Mech Inf, and it was mine. My final act of nuclear diplomacy. 10:7.

Five turns left until the vote. Each press of "End turn" was one dreading the news that Gandhi had completed his final booster. Yet he never did. The vote came, and I was triumphant.

Now this was one of the best games of civ I've ever played: I stayed up til about 4am, first out of "I'll see this through" and then "I can do this." It was exciting, and I'm glad my first experience of the otherwise underwhelming Diplomatic victory had been one of nuclear liberation instead of cynically buying up city state vending machines.

However Gandhi should have won ages ago. He'd already built two boosters, finished the tech tree, yet never actually bothered to win. Now I have no idea what happened. Maybe he was too wrapped up in war, and bickering with Siam over the two city states to realise. For all I know someone could have nuked his capital and neutered his production. I don't think I had even uncovered Delhi from the fog of war. But why, then, had Korea or Siam's own rocket development stalled? I fear it's an example of AI incompetence.

But who cares? It was a fun one, and I at least had to work for my victory! :)

Has anyone else experienced any AI weirdness with space races?
 

SkylineR33FTW

Chieftain
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
44
Location
South West UK
Interesting read :) maybe he was focusing more on wars, or had the city he was building the part in taken ? xD oh btw i have nothing to do with these but the best mods are Info Addict and Reveal Map Button :p imo in case your interested :)
 

dexters

Gods & Emperors
Supporter
Joined
Apr 23, 2003
Messages
4,182
Location
Canada
AI's has too many puppets which are unproductive, so the powerful ones rely entirely on their core/original cities to produce their units and SS parts.

Civ AI generally can be derailed by warring them when they are about to win, but Civ5 puppey mechanics put further strain on this.

The really dangerous AI are true runaways that are blowing people up left and right and the small compact empire that's been at peace forever, they have their military built up and can concentrate on SS victory.

You obviously derailed ghandi's UN victory plans and he probably was building units to fight you. Was he at war with anyone else?
 

Piso Mojado

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Messages
5
A fun read - I've been in a similar position as a war-mongering Askia who was too far behind in tech/culture to get anything but a diplo. victory.

While I think Dexter and Skyline are probably right about India being strung out in too many wars/not enough annexed cities, but I've suspected some sort of AI issue with tech victories for a while; I've noticed in several games that Ramesses/Nebucadnezzar, while extremely beyond anyone else in tech (because of that damn Porcelain tower and/or UA), seems to just idle on a tech victory even when he is at peace with everyone - not that I'm complaining :D. It is usually a fun and engaging game regardless.
 

Noatz

Warlord
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
172
Location
England
Half the games I play Ghandi starts near Ghengis or someone and gets taken out; first time I've heard of him going on a rampage :p

But yeah the AI can be a bit clueless sometimes, ie why did Ghandi build Apollo Program and then the UN in quick succession?

Also on higher difficulties - especially as someone like Arabia - Patronage is an extremely strong choice of policy track, for a number of reasons.
1. Since the AI develops faster (this includes CS's), Scholasticism becomes a massive tech boost for you when you control several or more city states.
2. Buying out and holding onto more CS's with the influence policies helps you corner the market in luxuries easier, allowing you to get more gold through selling your excess (this is doubly true for Arabia).
3. Because the AI civs tech faster, CS's gain the tech to connect strategics faster, making Cultural Diplomacy amazing
4. You can pinch CS's workers and not worry about the reprecussions with Aesthetics.
 

tss77

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
24
this is crazy. why in the world will the city states be friendily with you after you managed to liberate their city with nukes. i am petty sure this doesn't work that way in real life
 

Glassmage

The Desert Flame
Joined
Apr 23, 2011
Messages
1,667
Location
USA
LOL drop nukes on someone =they think you are their eternal lord...
 

tss77

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
24
and if dropping nukes on them make them happy. Than the citiznes of hiroshima and nagasaki would have been happy with the americans
 
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