1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Nukes are not nearly damaging enough

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by gregorsamsa, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. gregorsamsa

    gregorsamsa Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Anyone else agree? They don't cause nearly enough damage, and there's no reason to avoid using them. Every time I attack a sufficiently advanced civ, they open first with any nukes they have, which seems disastrously stupid. Seems to me like the game would want to force you to deeply consider the use of nukes.
     
  2. Myomoto

    Myomoto Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages:
    216
    I have to agree. I also dislike the fact that range of the Nuclear Missle is seemingly so low, I'd like to see some ICMB-style nuke that can hit the opposite side of the planet - that would also help make nukes as dangerous as they should be, because they could be deployed with a minimal degree of military infrastructure when you reach the proper late game.

    I guess it's a hard balancing act, how you prevent the science lead civ from simply nuking everybody else back to the stone age and then coasting to victory from there.
     
  3. tide15

    tide15 Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2013
    Messages:
    114
    ICBM's would be nice. As it is now if you have an ocean between you and a civ you have to make subs and sail them across.
    Civ 3 had the option of ICBM's or tacticle for sub use. They still could be a little more potent though. Expending three or four on a city seems like a real waste of a good nuke.
     
  4. GWashington

    GWashington Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    United States of America
    Yeah, I agree. I like the ICBM idea too. I think jets/fighters should also be able to intercept atomic bombs since they travel in a plane, that would be cool.
     
  5. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,690
    Location:
    Poland
    Yeah, intercontinental range would be nice, but still...

    ...is there any way to DEFEND from nukes? Yeah, I can build shelters to protect population, but other than that? Can anti - air destroy flying nukes?
     
  6. Tyrus

    Tyrus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    Messages:
    44
    If there was some way to implement a version of M.A.D. and re-balance nukes around that, I would very much enjoy nukes.

    For example, an ICBM would take one turn to reach the target after firing, and do devastating building damage. If the other civ had nukes in position to fire, they would obviously fire them at this point. Initiating nuclear war completely shuts down diplomacy with any civ for the rest of the game, but defending yourself from nuclear attack has no diplomatic penalties. Perhaps using nukes could get you banned from the World Congress.

    More investment required to become a nuclear power, after Manhattan Project, nukes need to be housed in Silos, an improvement that takes workers a long time to make, and needs aluminum.

    The thing about that is, in relative "game" time, your nukes would take "years" to get to their target, but in "turns" it makes sense. Perhaps you could have nukes set to auto-fire back if you are subject to attack.

    I like bomb shelters, but implementing things like spreading fallout (fallout drifts to reduce tile yields), etc would be great. I think there's a ton they could do with the system.
     
  7. Helmling

    Helmling Philosopher King

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,677
    I'd say nukes do enough damage. Especially since there isn't a way to clean up fallout in Civ V (or is there?). I also hate that there's no SDI any more and your interceptors are helpless against those early atomic bombers, too. I think nukes are really out of balance now.

    I'm all for the silos/MAD idea above, but there also needs to be harsher diplomatic penalties for using them. Some AI flavors should instantly hate you if you fire off an ICBM.
     
  8. sendos

    sendos Immortal

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,134
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Indeed, but when I imagine a Japanese plane trying to shoot down the Enola Gay above Japanese mainland, there is still the risk that the nuke will still be intact until the bomber drops to the ground.
     
  9. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,950
    Nukes do enough damage because there's no fear of mutually assured destruction. In a world where using nukes is not only sane but generally recommended, having them merely be a super air raid is quite fair.
     
  10. Flyboy13

    Flyboy13 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    9
    I don't really mind the lack of ICBMs too much. However, I know I've been hit with a couple of nukes and hardly even notice the difference once my workers clean up the couple of fallout spots.

    I've never actually noticed, what's the diplomatic repercussions for nuking? I have a hard time believing it's worse than ye ole' warmongering penalty.
     
  11. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,950
    As far as I'm aware, there's no real diplomatic penalty for using them. In fact, having them just makes other civs more afraid/willing to give in to your demands because Atomic Theory ramps up your war power so much.
     
  12. civ54lyfe

    civ54lyfe Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Messages:
    563
    i've noticed that the only AI to be "Afraid" after your acquiring nukes, are the AI that were "Friendly" to you. if any other status, they are oddly unchanged. it's almost like these other AI want to get nuked :lol:

    about damage.. units hanging out in radiated tiles should definitely take damage. and yes i also feel that the initial city pop death should not only be higher, but also that city should suffer 1 pop loss per turn, for something like 3-5 turns afterwards.

    cleaning up a radiated tile should require some sort of tech.
     
  13. rexman07

    rexman07 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    96
    Remember this is a strategy game, and nuclear weapons are one mechanic in the game. Civ is different from real life. In particular, there is one "winner" in Civ, whereas real life is not a zero sum game. So if nuclear weapons were to be amped up in power, they'd have to be balanced in some way. One way would be to make building nukes extremely expensive. Another way is to inflict a massive happiness penalty on the nuke-launching leader. (The atrocities of mass murder breeds discontent with your leadership at home.) (A diplomatic penalty is probably not sufficient, if nukes are powerful enough; there won't be anyone left to oppose you.)
     
  14. Kizo

    Kizo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    97
    There is. Move a worker onto an affected tile and select "Scrub Fallout."
     
  15. George Abitbol

    George Abitbol Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    Wish Lorraine
    It's quite funny to see the workers cleanning the fallout with brooms and without cbrn suits.

    What happen to the fallout on mountains if they can't be cleaned?
     
  16. Tiny Hands

    Tiny Hands Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2013
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Michigan
    I love this idea. As soon as the first nuke takes flight, everyone gets a chance to pick who gets a personalized nuke basket. Units would be frozen in place where they were once the first nuke launched during that period (save nukes, of course).

    Made me think of Chappelle's Show's Black Bush. "He bought aluminum tubes! Do I need to remind you what you can do with an aluminum tube? Aluminum!" :crazyeye:
     
  17. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,175
    The mountains in this game is forever poisoned by fallout because there is no way to scrub them unless you're carthage I believe.

    I should know.. there was a bunch of poisoned mountains I couldn't clean.
     
  18. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    5,256
    Nukes do enough damage as it is. I was nuked twice by ai once and I had to scrub the fallout and clean the plundered tiles. Do you know how many turns it took my workers to recover? I had to get the citizenship social policy from liberty to speed it all up and buy more workers. The non-nuclear proliferation easily prevents new nukes from being built but old existing armed nukes can still be launched.
     
  19. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,690
    Location:
    Poland
    I will repeat my question - can nukes be intercepted by anti air? :p
     
  20. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    16,100
    Location:
    In orbit
    Theoretically: yes. Practically: not a chance (especially with multi-warheads).
     

Share This Page